Insulin Resistance

Peata

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Inspired by this thread: Raised Freckles and those of us gaining and/or unable to lose pounds as well as suffering from other health issues because of IR, PCOS, etc.

If anyone has anything to say, please help. Thanks.
 
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I support those who have been diagnosed with either a kind of cachexia on the one hand or a form of obesity on the other. I do this because to me they seem to have the same kind and generous kindred soul inside: it is as if they are powerless to eat the very few, almost sacred foods that we all desperately need to thrive. As if these kind souls have made a choice to leave this most valuable food for others, while sacrificing themselves to a starvation diet of either nothing at all, or else of processed foods that traditional peoples would only eat during a famine.

Here is what I ask you to do: open a fresh gallon of nonfat milk in the morning. Pour one cup and mix it with 3 tablespoons of sugar. Drink it. Wait one hour and do that again. Do that again every hour for 16 hours. Then go to sleep.

As simple as it is, this works, if only with a few tweaks special to you (how much and what kind of thyroid extract? salt? serotonin antagonists?).

The problem is, your kind, generous soul won't let you do this, will it? Just thinking about it, already you can hear a tiny voice saying things like, I just don't feel full without processed food. I get an adrenaline surge when I have sugar. I can't digest milk.

But that tiny voice is just you feeling waves of guilt about eating these sacred necessary foods, rather than leaving these foods selflessly for others. I get you. I hear you. And I don't know if you can ever change, or even if you should. But I hope for all the best for you. You are wonderful.
 

Katty

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visionofstrength said:
I support those who have been diagnosed with either a kind of cachexia on the one hand or a form of obesity on the other. I do this because to me they seem to have the same kind and generous kindred soul inside: it is as if they are powerless to eat the very few, almost sacred foods that we all desperately need to thrive. As if these kind souls have made a choice to leave this most valuable food for others, while sacrificing themselves to a starvation diet of either nothing at all, or else of processed foods that traditional peoples would only eat during a famine.

Here is what I ask you to do: open a fresh gallon of nonfat milk in the morning. Pour one cup and mix it with 3 tablespoons of sugar. Drink it. Wait one hour and do that again. Do that again every hour for 16 hours. Then go to sleep.

As simple as it is, this works, if only with a few tweaks special to you (how much and what kind of thyroid extract? do you need serotonin antagonists?).

The problem is, your kind, generous soul won't let you do this, will it? Just thinking about it, already you can hear a tiny voice saying things like, I just don't feel full without processed food. I get an adrenaline surge when I have sugar. I can't digest milk.

But that tiny voice is just you feeling waves of guilt about eating these sacred necessary foods, rather than leaving these foods selflessly for others. I get you. I hear you. And I don't know if your soul will ever change. But I hope for all the best for you. You are wonderful.


Hmmm, sounds like my paleo days when everyone said "if it's not working for you, you're not doing it right."
(Insert any other WOE for "paleo" in the above sentence... Vegan, ancestral, low carb, etc etc)
 

Katty

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Can anyone speak about the relationship between insulin resistance and cortisol?
 

Suikerbuik

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Visionofstrength, I disagree with you. This is by far no reality.

I have no idea how one can solve insulin resistance once acquired unfortunately.. However one promising area of research in this field is the microbiome.
Peat emphasizes this, by writing a lot on how endotoxin affects our health. Also, he is giving us tactics to alter the flora (antibiotics, flowers of sulphur, carrot salad, etc.) but these things (in some, not all) are fairly limiting in altering the flora profoundly. Our body plays a role too in targetting and supressing certain flora, but this is by far not understood as of today. The interactions between the immune system and gut flora are too complex.

A few studies with respect to insulin resistance:
Intestinal microbiota and faecal transplantation as treatment modality for insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes mellitus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24528224
The gut microbiota, obesity and insulin resistance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23159341

These ones are for imprinting the complexity of gut function and flora.
Fecal transplants restore healthy bacteria and gut functions
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140617093814.htm
Gut microbes closely linked to proper immune function, other health issues
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130916122214.htm
In the gut, immunity is a two-way street: Complex role of gut bacteria
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140710130613.htm

How? I don't know, though this is not new. One of the referenced studies of Kim Andrew's post on 180D (Gram Negative Bacteria and Obesity) last year showed that germ free mice compared to non-germ free mice had differences in expression of genes mainly those for water handling by the gut. There's also studies done on germ free mice showing weak/abnormal immune responses. So, somehow the microbiome alters gene expression in gut tissue, but likely the situation is more complex than gut microbiome alone..

In this respect a diet consisiting of only milk, besides nourishing the host, could be due to altering the microbiome. As can be the carrot salad. But you have to be lucky to get this working for you. As said keep in mind that the also host plays a role in selecting microbiota, so indeed getting you're metabolism as high as possible can be huge factor. Which we luckily have some tools for at this moment.
 
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Peata

Peata

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VOS, I am not sure what you mean by sacred foods, but I don't eat a lot of processed foods and prefer whole foods as much as possible, such as dairy products, eggs, shellfish, carrot, small amounts of coconut oil, butter, evoo, sugar, fructose, coffee, fruit, some vegs, gelatin, meats, etc. And most days some potatoes or rice, some days wheat products and that's part of the time something that I've made myself. I have tried all combinations of things to reduce weight since the IR caught up with me over the winter. I am not powerless to eat good foods, not on a starvation diet, do not feel guilt about eating nourishing foods, and also I am not in a situation where I have to leave all the nourishing foods for others and just live on processed foods. Thanks for the milk and sugar idea, but if that's more than a one-day regimen that's supposed to reverse IR, I likely won't do it. This must be livable. As Katty has mentioned, eating by strict rules and regiments is in my past. Thank you for the well-wishes though and I wish all the best for you too.

Katty, I saw this on todaysdietician, just a result that came up in searching. Repeated elevation of cortisol can lead to weight gain.2 One way is via visceral fat storage. Cortisol can mobilize triglycerides from storage and relocate them to visceral fat cells (those under the muscle, deep in the abdomen). Cortisol also aids adipocytes’ development into mature fat cells. The biochemical process at the cellular level has to do with enzyme control (11-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase), which converts cortisone to cortisol in adipose tissue. More of these enzymes in the visceral fat cells may mean greater amounts of cortisol produced at the tissue level, adding insult to injury (since the adrenals are already pumping out cortisol). Also, visceral fat cells have more cortisol receptors than subcutaneous fat.

A second way in which cortisol may be involved in weight gain goes back to the blood sugar-insulin problem. Consistently high blood glucose levels along with insulin suppression lead to cells that are starved of glucose. But those cells are crying out for energy, and one way to regulate is to send hunger signals to the brain. This can lead to overeating. And, of course, unused glucose is eventually stored as body fat.
 

BingDing

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RP, from glycemia

Insulin release is also stimulated by amino acids such as leucine, and insulin stimulates cells to absorb amino acids and to synthesize proteins. Since insulin lowers blood sugar as it disposes of amino acids, eating a large amount of protein without carbohydrate can cause a sharp decrease in blood sugar. This leads to the release of adrenalin and cortisol, which raise the blood sugar. Adrenalin causes fatty acids to be drawn into the blood from fat stores, especially if the liver's glycogen stores are depleted, and cortisol causes tissue protein to be broken down into amino acids, some of which are used in place of carbohydrate. Unsaturated fatty acids, adrenaline, and cortisol cause insulin resistance.

I've read that article several times and still don't totally grasp it.
 

Suikerbuik

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I've read that article several times and still don't totally grasp it.

What is it that you don't get? If it's the bolding in your quote then it is because of interfering with the use of glucose by affecting certain proteins negatively suhc as enzymes and receptors. besides insulin's role in glucose uptake it is also involved in amino acid transport. Hence the lowering of glucose which is stimulated by amino acids (release of insulin).
 
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Peata

Peata

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In the past, I'm sure PUFA had some role, but the IR I've developed since January (and eating low PUFA since March 2013) can't be from excess PUFA, so it must be adrenaline and cortisol. It would not surprise me. Now, just what to do about it that I'm not already doing. There must be something I've missed.
 
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Niacinamide, procaine, hydroxocobalamin, fecal transplants? If indeed there is an unsurmountable curve between you and health that diet can't go over, it is possible to ascertain this fact and engage it to the fullest of your capacities.
 
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Peata said:
VOS, I am not sure what you mean by sacred foods, but I don't eat a lot of processed foods and prefer whole foods as much as possible, such as dairy products, eggs, shellfish, carrot, small amounts of coconut oil, butter, evoo, sugar, fructose, coffee, fruit, some vegs, gelatin, meats, etc. And most days some potatoes or rice, some days wheat products and that's part of the time something that I've made myself. I have tried all combinations of things to reduce weight since the IR caught up with me over the winter. I am not powerless to eat good foods, not on a starvation diet, do not feel guilt about eating nourishing foods, and also I am not in a situation where I have to leave all the nourishing foods for others and just live on processed foods. Thanks for the milk and sugar idea, but if that's more than a one-day regimen that's supposed to reverse IR, I likely won't do it. This must be livable. As Katty has mentioned, eating by strict rules and regiments is in my past. Thank you for the well-wishes though and I wish all the best for you too.
[/i]

Was paradise not described in our earliest ancient scrolls as the land of milk and honey? Is milk and sugar not an extraordinary luxury unavailable to most of the world? Is milk and sugar an unliveable regiment? Or a bounteous feast we are here blessed to enjoy?

I simply ask you to consider whether your soul, or perhaps your consciousness (to use RP's gloss) directs your every choice in life? And whether it is not connected to the souls or consciousness of others? Compared to this, insulin resistance, that latest bugaboo of drug companies, is a mere gnat in your eye.

Yes, it may take a day of milk and sugar, it may take longer, until your soul feels reborn, and your consciousness is regenerated.
 
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I can say about this matter that unlike a year ago I can eat two ounces of white sugar at once and not get headaches or "crashes". Now, most people would attack sugar with violence with my testimony, but I am simply telling it to show that this can happen in a timeframe of months. Incidentally I no longer present IBS, Frank's sign and constipation among other things. Equal amounts of sugar from Coca-Cola give me headaches and dark urine, go figure.
 
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Peata

Peata

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The last time I was saddled with this problem, the way I was able to shed it was through types of intermittent fasting. I cycled calories/carbs... I haven't liked the thought of it since I started RP eating, but to be honest it worked very well for me. I just did it for too long back then is the problem.

If I were to go this route again I would not do it as extreme as I did then. At that time I lost too much weight actually, and I know it wasn't good for my system. But I could do it just enough to get the excess weight gone or get the weight-loss jump-started even, and then I'd be able to maintain OK without it, or at least just do it on occasion. This I know from my past experience.

I don't know, I'll think about it. I have to do something. I feel sorry for my body in this state, tbh.
 
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Please, another try, because I really do love you. Milk and sugar (and thyroid extract and salt and a spoonful of coconut oil) will work wonders. I promise. You just need to OVERfeed. I know it's counterintuitive since the orthodoxy says "calories in" controls weight gain. But metabolism is the amount of "calories out", and that fire burns all day and night.

The problem is that pretty much anything other than milk and sugar may unknowingly cause stress in you, but only you, since you are different in so many unknowable ways from anyone else in the world. What little we dimly understand from so-called science suggests that the chemicals of stress in you somehow cause weight gain by dampening your metabolic fire. Eating less is only more stress!

Ray Peat after me:
1) Milk and sugar (and thyroid extract and salt and a spoonful of coconut oil) reliably turns your metabolic fire up.
2) You just need to overfeed.
3) Eating less is more stress.
4) Stress dampens your metabolic fire down, in ways that are impossibly unknowable and unique to you and your own body.
 

BingDing

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Suikerbuik said:
I've read that article several times and still don't totally grasp it.

What is it that you don't get? If it's the bolding in your quote then it is because of interfering with the use of glucose by affecting certain proteins negatively suhc as enzymes and receptors. besides insulin's role in glucose uptake it is also involved in amino acid transport. Hence the lowering of glucose which is stimulated by amino acids (release of insulin).

No, that paragraph was fine. I get 3/4s through a lot of his articles and don't know what I'm reading. Too many misunderstood words, I can't duplicate what he means unless I know the words he's using.
 

Katty

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Peata said:
.
Katty, I saw this on todaysdietician, just a result that came up in searching. Repeated elevation of cortisol can lead to weight gain.2 One way is via visceral fat storage. Cortisol can mobilize triglycerides from storage and relocate them to visceral fat cells (those under the muscle, deep in the abdomen). Cortisol also aids adipocytes’ development into mature fat cells. The biochemical process at the cellular level has to do with enzyme control (11-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase), which converts cortisone to cortisol in adipose tissue. More of these enzymes in the visceral fat cells may mean greater amounts of cortisol produced at the tissue level, adding insult to injury (since the adrenals are already pumping out cortisol). Also, visceral fat cells have more cortisol receptors than subcutaneous fat.

A second way in which cortisol may be involved in weight gain goes back to the blood sugar-insulin problem. Consistently high blood glucose levels along with insulin suppression lead to cells that are starved of glucose. But those cells are crying out for energy, and one way to regulate is to send hunger signals to the brain. This can lead to overeating. And, of course, unused glucose is eventually stored as body fat.

Hey Peata,
Thanks for posting that-- I think I must have missed it when you originally posted.
Still having trouble figuring out how to lower cortisol. I have been feeling more calm, sleeping fairly well, getting some sun. Can't figure out why my cortisol is still high. I know Ray says starch can cause high cortisol.. I'm debating about cutting out starch. But I never feel full without starch so I'm not sure how this will work- especially now that summer fruits are going out of season. Seems weird to me that starch would increase cortisol. I also don't feel like I'm overeating.
 
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Katty said:
Peata said:
.
Katty, I saw this on todaysdietician, just a result that came up in searching. Repeated elevation of cortisol can lead to weight gain.2 One way is via visceral fat storage. Cortisol can mobilize triglycerides from storage and relocate them to visceral fat cells (those under the muscle, deep in the abdomen). Cortisol also aids adipocytes’ development into mature fat cells. The biochemical process at the cellular level has to do with enzyme control (11-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase), which converts cortisone to cortisol in adipose tissue. More of these enzymes in the visceral fat cells may mean greater amounts of cortisol produced at the tissue level, adding insult to injury (since the adrenals are already pumping out cortisol). Also, visceral fat cells have more cortisol receptors than subcutaneous fat.

A second way in which cortisol may be involved in weight gain goes back to the blood sugar-insulin problem. Consistently high blood glucose levels along with insulin suppression lead to cells that are starved of glucose. But those cells are crying out for energy, and one way to regulate is to send hunger signals to the brain. This can lead to overeating. And, of course, unused glucose is eventually stored as body fat.

Hey Peata,
Thanks for posting that-- I think I must have missed it when you originally posted.
Still having trouble figuring out how to lower cortisol. I have been feeling more calm, sleeping fairly well, getting some sun. Can't figure out why my cortisol is still high. I know Ray says starch can cause high cortisol.. I'm debating about cutting out starch. But I never feel full without starch so I'm not sure how this will work- especially now that summer fruits are going out of season. Seems weird to me that starch would increase cortisol. I also don't feel like I'm overeating.

I personally cannot eat rice without falling asleep and crashing. It is incredibly fast carbohydrate.
 

Katty

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thebigpeatowski said:
My own personal experience is that starches can contribute to endotoxin which raises cortisol.
I think I just read on one of the other Peat sites someone mention that taking antibiotics helped calm down cortisol issues. So maybe endotoxins is fueling cortisol. Why would cortisol rise from endotoxins?
 
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I borrowed this from the FPS website:


“It takes a few days for the intestine to adjust to raw carrot, but the indigestible fiber is very protective for the intestine. Boiled bamboo shoots, which are also mostly indigestible, have a similar effect. These fibers prevent the reabsorption of estrogen in the intestine, and can shift the balance away from cortisol and estrogen, toward progesterone and thyroid, in just a few days of regular use. Oatmeal and potatoes do provide fiber, but they are good food for bacteria, and bacterial endotoxin is usually the basic problem causing hormone imbalance, by being a chronic burden for the liver, keeping it from storing enough sugar to process thyroid and the other hormones effectively.”---Ray Peat
 

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