Ray Peat Diet Gave Me A Fatty Liver?

leonardo

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I've been on a Ray Peat inspired diet for over 2 years now (Age: 40 Years).
I was first introduced to it by Danny Roddy.
The results have been great - Increased drive and productivity, extremely youthful skin, high libido etc.

But ...

I recently got an ultra sound of my abdomen and pelvis done because I'd been having a vague sense of fullness on my right upper quadrant.

The report now says that I have 'mild hepatomegaly with grade 1 fatty changes'. And the liver is mildly enlarged and measures 14.8 cm.

Is there anybody else out there with something similar?

What could be the cause of this?

Is it all the sugar?

Or the egg-shell calcium?

Is it the coconut oil and butter?

Or could it be the Thyroid-S?

Any thoughts?

How do I begin bug fixing and optimizing my diet?

Thanks ... I'm really looking to hear your view points and am hopeful that it will help others avoid making the same mistakes that I might have made.
 

PeaterPan

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Aug 23, 2014
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There are a lot of studies on mice showing that sucrose increases the chances of getting a fatty liver, extra virgin olive oil shows promise on the other hand on reducing it.

There's a price to be paid for sucrose effect on metabolism/anabolism, increased oxidative stress, insulin resistance.

Saturated fats also show an increase in liver fat, expecially coupled with sugar.

You may be free to not believe me of course and keep relying on faith in people that you don't know and that are against the whole world in their ideology.
 

Mittir

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Fatty liver is a very common phenomenon now. Doctors used to think it is harmless
and now they believe it is precursor to diabetes. They believe large part of adult
population have fatty liver. Did you get ultrasonogram of your liver before starting
RP style eating? I know many people around me who are pre-diabetic
or diabetic had ultrasonogram done and all of them have fatty liver.
None of them are following Peat and barely eat sugar. They know sugar is bad.
Choline and or Protein deficiency plays role in liver fat. You can check if
you are getting enough protein and choline daily. Chris Masterjohn has written
several article on causes of fatty liver on his blog. Since it is a medical issue
for you, you need to consult with your doctor to treat it.
You can also do some google search to find out what is the prevalence of
fatty liver disease and what causes it. Here is a quote from RP on fatty liver.
Low metabolism and body's inability to use sugar can also cause fatty liver.

Ray Peat said:
In every type of tissue, it is the failure to oxidize glucose that produces oxidative stress and cellular damage. Even feeding enough sucrose to cause fat deposition in the liver can protect the liver from oxidative stress (Spolarics and Meyenhofer, 2000), possibly by mechanisms such as those involved in the treatment of alcoholic liver disease with saturated fats.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gl ... etes.shtml

Ray Peat said:
Many people lately have been told, as part of a campaign to explain the high incidence of fatty liver degeneration in the US, supposedly resulting from eating too much sugar, that fructose can be metabolized only by the liver. The liver does have the highest capacity for metabolizing fructose, but the other organs do metabolize it.
If fructose can by-pass the fatty acids' inhibition of glucose metabolism, to be oxidized when glucose can't, and if the metabolism of diabetes involves the oxidation of fatty acids instead of glucose, then we would expect there to be less than the normal amount of fructose in the serum of diabetics, although their defining trait is the presence of an increased amount of glucose. According to Osuagwu and Madumere (2008), that is the case. If a fructose deficiency exists in diabetes, then it is appropriate to supplement it in the diet. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/sugar-issues.shtml
 
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Here is the protocol I used:

Red Bull (or taurine) once per day
Stop niacinamide
Choline
Stop progesterone
Stop aspirin
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day

I can find the papers if you would like.
 
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leonardo said:
I've been on a Ray Peat inspired diet for over 2 years now (Age: 40 Years).
I was first introduced to it by Danny Roddy.
Hi, l! Welcome! Can you help us to understand what you mean by a Ray Peat inspired diet? If you could, for example, go on chronometer.com and provide us with everything that you eat in the course of day, or perhaps a week?

The actual Ray Peat Diet (by that I mean, what Ray Peat himself eats) may be too restrictive for many to follow. But Peat has spent more than 30 years researching the diet he uses. Departing from that actual Ray Peat diet, as I hope you understand, introduces many variables that can't be controlled for, without a great deal more time and testing.

For example, if you have a fatty liver, Peat thinks it is caused by endotoxemia, estrogen and unsaturated fatty acids. You may avoid all of this when you eat the actual Ray Peat diet. You can learn more about what Ray Peat actually eats on this forum, if you search toxinless.com for "Ray Peat diet".

Please also consider that Ray Peat starts with a very clean gut, almost completely free of endotoxins, and enjoys rapid peristalsis from a healthy intestine. A healthy intestine is crucial to the health of your liver, which otherwise can be overwhelmed with endotoxemia.

Peat lays out the steps for achieving a healthy intestine yourself, but again these may be too restrictive for many to follow. And again, unless you can achieve a healthy intestine, you will introduce many variables, including harmful endotoxins, that can't be controlled for.

You can learn more about achieving a healthy intestine on this forum by searching toxinless.com for endotoxins or endotoxemia.
 

nograde

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Such_Saturation said:
Here is the protocol I used:

Red Bull (or taurine) once per day
Stop niacinamide
Choline
Stop progesterone
Stop aspirin
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day

I can find the papers if you would like.

Could you please elaborate on the mechanisms of aspirin, progesterone and niacinamide leading to fatty liver? For Aspirin I could imagine compromised mucosa, but progesterone and niacinamide?

Thanks.
 
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Red Bull (or taurine) once per day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21126079]
Stop niacinamide [Stops fat burning but you also see it improving fatty liver]
Choline [http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/892.abstract]
Stop progesterone [Keep it simple]
Stop aspirin [Stops burning and release of fat]
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22574630]
 

jyb

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Such_Saturation said:
Red Bull (or taurine) once per day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21126079]
Stop niacinamide [Stops fat burning but you also see it improving fatty liver]
Choline [http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/892.abstract]
Stop progesterone [Keep it simple]
Stop aspirin [Stops burning and release of fat]
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22574630]

Ok, sat fat good for that liver condition, but why not long chain (sat) fat?
 
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jyb said:
Such_Saturation said:
Red Bull (or taurine) once per day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21126079]
Stop niacinamide [Stops fat burning but you also see it improving fatty liver]
Choline [http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/892.abstract]
Stop progesterone [Keep it simple]
Stop aspirin [Stops burning and release of fat]
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22574630]

Ok, sat fat good for that liver condition, but why not long chain (sat) fat?

The point is burning the fat or moving it out of the liver but I feel like butter would be more of a setback than coconut oil in that aspect. ALCAR helps too I'm sure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1941634
 
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Such_Saturation said:
Red Bull (or taurine) once per day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21126079]
Stop niacinamide [Stops fat burning but you also see it improving fatty liver]
Choline [http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/892.abstract]
Stop progesterone [Keep it simple]
Stop aspirin [Stops burning and release of fat]
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22574630]
s_s, this is fascinating in its own right, and may well have enormous merit, but would you agree that it should be discussed in the Ray Peat debate forum? For example, isn't the over-emphasis on T4 at the core of much of what Peat believes is dangerous about modern medical practice?

Also, for Peat, estrogen is the cause of fatty liver, and since Peat thinks progesterone opposes estrogen, would he advise stopping progesterone?

Of course, I'm not saying we can't discuss studies like these, and for all I know they could be correct, but if they are discussed elsewhere, perhaps visitors here would not confuse them with Peat's work, which they have come here in search of?

In the proper forum, debate about these studies may further Peat's belief that we can't know how often these studies are the product of the corrupt patrinomy of pharmaceutical lackeys, especially those that make grand generalizations across populations, which Peat believes is implausible, given the sheer number of variables you cannot control for.
 
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visionofstrength said:
Such_Saturation said:
Red Bull (or taurine) once per day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21126079]
Stop niacinamide [Stops fat burning but you also see it improving fatty liver]
Choline [http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/892.abstract]
Stop progesterone [Keep it simple]
Stop aspirin [Stops burning and release of fat]
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22574630]
s_s, this is fascinating in its own right, and may well have enormous merit, but would you agree that it should be discussed in the Ray Peat debate forum? For example, isn't the over-emphasis on T4 at the core of much of what Peat believes is dangerous about modern medical practice?

Also, for Peat, estrogen is the cause of fatty liver, and since Peat thinks progesterone opposes estrogen, would he advise stopping progesterone?

Of course, I'm not saying we can't discuss studies like these, and for all I know they could be correct, but if they are discussed elsewhere, perhaps visitors here would not confuse them with Peat's work, which they have come here in search of?

In the proper forum, debate about these studies may further Peat's belief that we can't know how often these studies are the product of the corrupt patrinomy of pharmaceutical lackeys, especially those that make grand generalizations across populations, which Peat believes is implausible, given the sheer number of variables you cannot control for.

I think many of those substances promote a period of recharging energy which necessarily involves avoiding the mobilization of fat and usually its synthesis, coinciding with phylosophy of abundance. In this regard any extra fat you eat will not be used unless you have giant muscles. Ray Peat has never advocated high fat but clearly we have gone down this road. At this point I feel safe letting some fat in my blood (very strict diet) and T4 has been giving me quick and good response (mind you I am out of T3).
 
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Such_Saturation said:
I think many of those substances promote a period of recharging energy which necessarily involves avoiding the mobilization of fat and usually its synthesis, coinciding with phylosophy of abundance. In this regard any extra fat you eat will not be used unless you have giant muscles. Ray Peat has never advocated high fat but clearly we have gone down this road. At this point I feel safe letting some fat in my blood (very strict diet) and T4 has been giving me quick and good response (mind you I am out of T3).
Nicely stated! I think someone may have asked Peat about fat in the diet yesterday, so maybe he will provide a clue for us. :)
 
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L

leonardo

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Wilfrid said:
Could it be a choline deficiency?
Or could it be a betaine, folate and B6 deficiency as those substances are known to spare choline?

http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/ ... te-to.html

You will may not like the connection made by ChrisMasterjohn in his article between estrogen protective effect, in women, on fatty liver, though.

@Wilfrid - Thanks for the link to the Chris Masterjohn article. I actually get plenty of egg yellows everyday + mutton liver two times a week.
 
OP
L

leonardo

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Mittir said:
Did you get ultrasonogram of your liver before starting
RP style eating? I know many people around me who are pre-diabetic
or diabetic had ultrasonogram done and all of them have fatty liver.

@Mittir - I did not get an ultrasonogram of my liver before RP style eating. The earliest ultra sound record I have is about 1.5 years ago (Feb. 2013) when I'd already been on this diet for about 6 months or longer.) Even in that ultra sound, there is mention of "Mild fatty changes in liver."
 
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leonardo

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Peata said:
How much protein do you get?
@Peata:
I get about 60 grams in the form of milk, cheese, collagen hydrolysate (from Great Lakes), liver, meat and oysters.
 

Mittir

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Such_Saturation said:
Red Bull (or taurine) once per day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21126079]
Stop niacinamide [Stops fat burning but you also see it improving fatty liver]
Choline [http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/95/4/892.abstract]
Stop progesterone [Keep it simple]
Stop aspirin [Stops burning and release of fat]
Avoid long chain fat
T4 every day [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22574630]

That T4 study did not find correlation between fatty liver and TSH, free T3.
RP's view is that active hormone T3 energizes liver. But, he also mentioned
that thyroxine (T4) is an anti-oxidant/chain-breaker. This is probably the reason
for extra benefit from T4. RP has also mentioned female are more likely
to have problem converting T4 to T3 than male due to higher estrogen.
 

north

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Dec 21, 2013
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60g protein in total for one day? Thats pretty low.
What else do you eat?
 

Mittir

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prototype said:
60g protein in total for one day? Thats pretty low.
What else do you eat?

One of the few pillars of RP's recommendation is to have at least 80 grams of quality
protein. I have seen a big difference between having 70 grams of protein, which i was
getting in the beginning thinking it is close enough, than having 80 grams of protein. I am always skeptical of general claims that people are having all kinds of problems following "RP Diet" . No one knows what is one's definition of RP diet is .
I do not understand how someone gains weight (fat) if there is a weighing scale at home and knows how to count calories. RP does not recommend specific calories for everyone.
One eats according to his/her metabolic rate. There are foods like vegetable-fruit
broth and liver that have tons of nutrients with very little calories.
 

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