High fever not going away

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
My daughter is home with fever since Monday. It goes up to 104, comes down to 101 with Ibuprofen/tylenol. As of yesterday, it's coming down to 99, and the high is 103.

Doc has ruled out flu, mono, strep, and is testing for Lyme and other viruses.

Yesterday, she finished a course of Bactrim/Septra for a UTI.

I'm a bit concerned about her stomach lining from all the meds and wondering what supplement I might give her for it. No symptoms as such, just precautionary. And anything else I should be watching out for, that the medical establishment doesn't tell me.

Thank you!!
 

dd99

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2014
Messages
434
sunmountain, I'm sorry to hear that.

Activated charcoal has really helped me with fevers over the past six months. Is that is something you have tried? I take at least 1g of charcoal when I have a fever.

I don't know how much you know about charcoal. If you haven't explored that option, it might be helpful for you to read this, this and this.

I hope your daughter gets better soon.
 

charlie

Admin
The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
14,359
Location
USA
Any other symptoms besides fever?
 
OP
sunmountain

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
Thanks, dd, yes I have AC...the hard part is convincing a teenager. She says she will give it a try tonight, so let's see.

Other symptoms: swollen glands in throat area, stiff neck. No congestion type stuff.

Thanks
 
OP
sunmountain

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
yes, because she mostly has fever, at least 99 or 101. So she is fatigued overall.

Her appetite has declined. I get her different things to eat, and she nibbles and no more.

She took 1T AC tonight, but will probably not take it again.

This has been going on since Monday. Today the ped said that if she still has high temps by 10am tomorrow (Saturday) morning -- to take her to the ER.

Huh?

She's still waiting for the Lyme and other results. But I don't understand why wait so many days to diagnose and then send her to the ER in the end.
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Hi,
Any headache? My association with fever + headache + stiff neck is that we have been warned to take these seriously in case it could be meningitis (inflamation of the meninges - the lining of the brain and spinal cord, I think). It probably isn't that, but meningitis is potentially deadly, and needs to be treated fairly quickly. There are dofferent kinds, eg bacterial, amoebic. An old friend of mine got it a while ago, and fortunately got taken to hospital in time - when she started to get delerious. I don't know how it is properly diagnosed. They immunise for one of the strains here, I think. There are no doubt many other possible explanations, this is just the one I as a lay person am aware of that includes stiff neck.
I guess a lot of fevers resolve themselves in a couple of days by themselves, and the ones that don't that they can't easily explain, they might want to check more closely?
 

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
The doctor was probably trying to see if her bodies own defenses would take care of things in a reasonable time frame. Sometimes there can be more than one type of infection occurring like both bacterial and viral at the same time. Hospitals can run a wider variety of tests from one centralized location and get results rapidly (within minutes or hours instead of days). Since she spent the summer as a camp counselor(IIRC) she could have picked up something from one of the children, got a bit run down and now her system is just overwhelmed. Please keep us updated on her progress.
 
OP
sunmountain

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
Very mild headache the first two days only (today is day 6), and only when she looked out her eyes sideways (at the time she said her eyeballs were hurting).

We called the doc this morning, as she had instructed us to do. She has been monitoring it. She spoke yesterday with infectious diseases at a major area hospital, and they said it could be one of a number of different tick-borne diseases and to put her on doxycycline. If it is tick-borne, they said she should feel better within 24 hours of doxy. They mentioned Ehrlichiosis as one of the tick borne. If she's not better by Monday on doxy, then take her to ER for further testing.

I know doxy is a Tetracycline, and RP approved, so feel better about it. Though it IS on the heels of the Bactrim/Septra round. Ironically, I had asked the doc-on-call who prescribed the Bactrim for a Tetra at the time, and she had said the Bactrim would be fine.

One concern I have is that today is day 6. To my knowledge tick-borne diseases respond best within first couple days of symptoms. And if it is not tick, then is it a good idea to wait till monday for ER testing? Would it be better to do BOTH today: doxy AND ER?

Second, how can I best supplement her, given she is not eating much and going into the second round of antibiotics? I gave her my own supps this morning: Haidut's B complex, B1, B12, D, A, K. I don't think she will do AC again.

Thank you
 

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
You know your own daughter better than anyone and should go with you mother's instinct. It sounds like she is sick but stable so I'd go with feeding her easily digestible foods especially homemade broths and fruit juices. I wouldn't personally take her to the ER unless you feel she is declining. You have doxycycline and lab results pending so they are probably not going to be able to do a whole lot unless she gets worse. She will be exposed to much more infection in a hospital setting as compared to at home. I would personally keep my own child at home if there wasn't a life threatening emergency in that scenario.
 
OP
sunmountain

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
I had forgotten about exposure to infections in hospitals. She is stable, yes, the only thing is not eating enough, but that can be due to extended fever. Thanks for your input, Blossom, it helps a lot.
 

Blossom

Moderator
Forum Supporter
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
11,031
Location
Indiana USA
sunmountain said:
I had forgotten about exposure to infections in hospitals. She is stable, yes, the only thing is not eating enough, but that can be due to extended fever. Thanks for your input, Blossom, it helps a lot.
You're welcome!
Hospitals are all we have for certain situations but someone stable already trying to recover from an infection is usually better off at home. I see no reason to take unnecessary chances myself. By all means though, please do take her if you feel she really needs to be there!:D
 

Mittir

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,033
Fluoridated Water and Thyroid Hormone

Another point i want to add is about fluoridated water. RP has mentioned how
fluoride destroys active thyroid hormone T3. I recently realized that my thyroid
problem started when i switched from spring water to filtered water using those Brita filters.
I thought Brita removed all the toxins including chlorine and fluoride.
But, recently someone pointed out here that regular filters do not remove
fluoride. I did not know then fluoride causes hypothyroidism.
So, it would be a good idea to check if your water supply is fluoridated or not.
Good thyroid function should make one resistant to all kind of diseases.

I have noticed whenever i tried to save money it always resulted in bigger problems.
Around the same time i got tons of dental X-Ray done to get free
root canals done by dental students. They do tons of X-ray for simple root canals.
I knew that there was a very small amount of X-Ray in dental X-Rays.
But, now i know from Ray Peat that dental X-Rays are strong enough to cause
considerable thyroid problems. ER visits are often includes a lot of X-Rays too.


Edit: According to an old study they found lots of Juice drinks, especially one made
from concentrate had good amount of fluoride in it. I posted that study in another thread.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=4128&p=51377&hilit=apple+juice+fluoride#p51377
 
OP
sunmountain

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
Thanks, MIttir, I've been aware of fluoride and thyroid, and that fluoride is not removed through most charcoal filters but only RO, which is expensive and strips all minerals.

I think I read somewhere that RP was not too concerned about fluoride, which surprised me. I could have misread him.

By TSH of 2-something, my daughter is hypo. Right now she doesn't have much confidence in my recommendations because she sees I am still struggling with health issues. Another reason to try to get better soon! She has agreed, however, that during her next period, we can measure her waking temp and pulse.
 

aguilaroja

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
850
sunmountain said:
Very mild headache the first two days only (today is day 6), and only when she looked out her eyes sideways (at the time she said her eyeballs were hurting).

We called the doc this morning... She spoke yesterday with infectious diseases at a major area hospital, and they said it could be one of a number of different tick-borne diseases and to put her on doxycycline. If it is tick-borne, they said she should feel better within 24 hours of doxy. They mentioned Ehrlichiosis as one of the tick borne. If she's not better by Monday on doxy, then take her to ER for further testing....

So much to say here-I'll try to say it briefly:

(1) I don't know specifics and speak generally. The situation is general enough that your daughter's pediatrician is experienced in covering the basics. The short term goal is to avoid life-threatening stuff. Everything else can be sorted out less urgently. I would not presume to manage life-threatening situations from a Peat-y web post discussion.

(2) The ER, by definition, will be there any hour of day you need it. As Blossom mentions, it is reassuring that the fever is being tolerated without major debility. If things get worse, such as but not limited to high fever, chills, shaking, headache, vomiting, marked pain, trouble breathing, get attention immediately.

(3) Doxycycline for tick-born infection sounds like a reasonable maneuver. The infectious disease consultant contacted by the pediatrician would have an idea of the probabilities for your region.

(4) Yes, antibiotics have side effects, but many of them are limited to while the antibiotics are being taken. Though it is not so Peat-y, IMNHE sometimes restoring the flora with probiotics after prolonged antibiotic treatment is worth a thought. During antibiotic treatment, supportive nutrition as possible helps.

(5) If oral intake is limited, topical support (you mentioned haidut's formulations-one excellent option) can be helpful. Other adjuncts besides vitamins might be foot baths for minerals (salt, baking soda, epsom salts for magnesium) and coconut oil to the skin.

(6) I have found that the course of an infection can be noticeably shortened by taking added vitamin D3 (in the neighborhood of 10 to 30 thousand units daily) for a few days (only). Several grams daily of extra vitamin C for a few days often speeds antibiotic treatment as well. I am quite aware of Dr. Peat's concerns about vitamin C purity, and on that rationale hesitate to mention it. For short term clearing of infection, I have sometimes weighed the risks and benefits of vitamin C supplementation, looking for allegedly careful manufacturers where possible.

(7) With a story of marked fever, headache, stiff neck, and "eyeballs hurting", meningitis is a possibility. It is possible that with an ER visit a physician may raise the question of a lumbar puncture (spinal tap) for diagnosis. This is not mentioned to scare you but to give forewarning about the consideration. If the fever persists and headache, stiff neck and other signs exist, the question may be raised.
 

Mittir

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,033
sunmountain said:
I think I read somewhere that RP was not too concerned about fluoride, which surprised me. I could have misread him.

RP surely is concerned about Fluoride. He believes Fluoride is toxic to thyroid.
He is the one who mentioned in an interview that one molecule of fluoride
destroys one molecule of T3 in blood and in intestine it destroys
nutrients and hormones . He also mentioned a study that found population drinking
fluoridated water had higher cancer rate.

I think possible confusion arises from him not talking much about it in interviews.
In one article he recommended avoiding fluoridated water for bone health.

I agree with aguilaroja about using vitamin D to help with infection.
I have seen benefit using regular vitamin D3 in flu season.
If the person already is vitamin D deficient then few days of large dose can replete
that . But i have read that the main benefit of increased immune function
only comes from daily dose of vitamin D. Their explanation is that body only can
convert D3 to active vitamin D form on daily basis and it disappears quickly.
It does not convert stored D3. If system is flooded with
a big dose and then the active vitamin D disappears quickly.
Even if someone starts with big doses for few days , it would be a good idea
to continue that on daily basis at regular dose to keep the immune system
functioning at higher level. If someone is getting enough vitamin D from sunlight
then that should be done regularly too.

Interval doses works fine with bone and TSH related matters. Though some studies
have found benefit from bolus dose in other non-bone related diseases.
Most studies that does not show benefit of supplementation of vitamin D3 on
non-bone related diseases usually use non-daily doses of vitamin D3. There are tons
of studies going on effect of Vitamin D supplementation on immune function,
cancers and other diseases. We will learn more about how D3 helps in
non-bone related diseases.
 
OP
sunmountain

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
Thank you so much Aquilaroja and MIttir!

My daughter was found very deficient in D some years ago, and I supplemented her regularly for a while. Then she stopped cooperating, and it was pulling teeth, and I gave up supplementing about a year or less ago.

Can D deficiency cause hypothyroidism?

I understand now from your posts that it affects immunity. I will give her large doses now, and then attempt to explain the connection to immunity, and hope she will cooperate in taking it if not daily then several times a week.

Regarding meningitis, I am not sure how much importance to give the headache, as it was very mild and brief, and related more to the eyeballs hurting. Unless THAT is a headache after all. But that also resolved in a day or two. The other symptom right now is swollen glands. I brushed against the side of her throat at dinner, and she screamed in pain.

Thank you for all the supportive suggestions. I was thinking of giving her emergen-C but got put off by the additives. But perhaps it's ok to give her for a short duration. If you have any better recommendations, please PM me. I plan on probiotics after she completes the course.

I am so grateful to have found this supportive forum. It is such a comfort to me, knowing I can turn to it anytime.
 

Mittir

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,033
sunmountain said:
Can D deficiency cause hypothyroidism?

RP has never mentioned low vitamin D causing hypothyroidism.
He mainly talks about vitamin D in calcium and magnesium metabolism
and lowering PTH. He mentioned that Vitamin D and K inhibit nitric oxide production
and have some anti-estrogenic effect, that can be seen as pro-thyroid.
He mentioned that Vitamin D boosts immune system and lowers inflammation.

He also mentioned low vitamin D is a major cause of hair loss.
That could be an easy motivation for someone to use vitamin D
regularly and i think most people love their hairs more than anything.
He applies vitamin D on skin. You can try liquid formulas like the one Haidut
makes. I think there are other brands too. You can just add few drops to a
tasty food like ice cream or Juice.

RP also talked about a study in a KMUD interview that found most people
admitted to intensive care were vitamin D deficient. Then they were given
extra vitamin D and it shorten their hospital stay and lowered mortality rate.
He did not mentioned if it was daily or interval dose. My guess it was daily
dose as they started getting D in the hospital.
 

aguilaroja

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
850
Mittir said:
RP also talked about a study in a KMUD interview that found most people
admitted to intensive care were vitamin D deficient. Then they were given
extra vitamin D and it shorten their hospital stay and lowered mortality rate...

See, for instance:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25143908
Indian J Endocrinol Metab. 2014 Jul;18(4):511-5. doi: 10.4103/2230-8210.137504.
Vitamin D deficiency is associated with increased mortality in critically ill patients especially in those requiring ventilatory support. Joshi A1, Bhadade R2, Varthakavi PK1, DeSouza R2, Bhagwat NM1, Chadha MD1
"CONCLUSION: VitD deficiency was associated with increased mortality, poor ventilator outcomes, and increased blood glucose in critically ill patients."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/25125805/
Lung India. 2014 Jul;31(3):212-6. doi: 10.4103/0970-2113.135755.
Vitamin D status in adult critically ill patients in Eastern India: An observational retrospective study.
Padhi R, Panda B, Jagati S, Patra SC.
"CONCLUSIONS: Patients with 25(OH) D deficiency in MICU have increased hospital mortality, longer mechanical ventilation, and longer MICU stay."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/21242800/
Crit Care Med. 2011 Apr;39(4):671-7. doi: 10.1097/CCM.0b013e318206ccdf.
Association of low serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels and mortality in the critically ill.
Braun A1, Chang D, Mahadevappa K, Gibbons FK, Liu Y, Giovannucci E, Christopher KB
"CONCLUSION: Deficiency of 25-hydroxyvitamin D before hospital admission is a significant predictor of short- and long-term all-cause patient mortality and blood culture positivity in a critically ill patient population."
 
OP
sunmountain

sunmountain

Member
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
792
Good news!! The doxy kicked the bugs! She woke up this morning without a fever -- after the first dose last night!!

Whew!

So I guess this means it is likely a tick-borne bug. I do hope that she recovers fully without some of the neurological damage I hear about in adults.

She is on 100mg doxy. Is that a low or high dose?

Her temp around noon was 96.4 -- very low. Could the doxy be suppressing thyroid temporarily?

Thanks for the data on vit D. I will try to pass it on when she is receptive.
 
Back
Top Bottom