Progest-E For Contraception

Tangerine · Jul 22, 2013

Greetings all!
Upon browsing an older thread on here regarding oral contraceptives, I read that some women have been using Progest-E sucessfully as birth control. Can anyone here expand on how one would accomplish this correctly. I know how synthetic progestins do it, just curious about natural Progesterone dosaging and application, etc.. I also read an article linked in the afformentioned thread about progesterone suppositories...has anyone obtained or used these? I believe in the US one needs a prescrption for that...?

Thanks for reading!

4peatssake · Jul 22, 2013

Tangerine said:
Greetings all!
Upon browsing an older thread on here regarding oral contraceptives, I read that some women have been using Progest-E sucessfully as birth control. Can anyone here expand on how one would accomplish this correctly. I know how synthetic progestins do it, just curious about natural Progesterone dosaging and application, etc.. I also read an article linked in the afformentioned thread about progesterone suppositories...has anyone obtained or used these? I believe in the US one needs a prescrption for that...?

Thanks for reading!

to the Ray Peat forum Tangerine!

Not sure if you saw this thread (I think there's a few of them) but in this one Rayser describes how she doses Progest E for contraception. It is a terrific thread with a lot of very good info.

Contraceptive Pill Thread

I've never had the need to use contraception due to infertility so I'm not much help with that.

See you round the forum!

Tangerine · Jul 23, 2013

Thank you for the warm welcome! Can't wait to see you around the boards!

Yes, that actually was the thread I had been browsing in :) If the following is what you were referencing, I have a few questions then that hopefully someone can chime in with!

Rayser said:
Start on Day 8 of the cycle with a low dose of progesterone, and keep it up until menstruation or - for PMS sufferers - the day when you start on the bigger, anti-PMS dose. A daily dose of 100 mg (half a 200 mg suppository) or a 400 mg suppository are equally effective. (Many women who will use 400 mg of progesterone two to six times daily from ovulation onwards prefer to take one 400 mg suppository in the follicular phase rather than having to get 200 mg suppositories as well.)

Progesterone contraception for PMS...

A low dose (100-200 mg) of progesterone from Day 8 of the cycle
Increase to optimum progesterone dosage at ovulation
Continue progesterone until menstruation
A study of progesterone contraception in women with severe PMS showed 15 failures in 253 women who had used progesterone contraception for an average of 5.82 years. This means a failure rate of 2.66 per 100 women/years (women/years is a ratio that encompasses 100 women using a method of contraception for one year, 50 women using it for two, etc.), which compares favourably with the recognized failure rate of the condom of 14, diaphragm of 12, rhythm method 24, and intra-uterine device of 2.5 per 100 women/years.

Read more: http://www.progesteronetherapy.com/prog ... z2RCgftrp6
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

I guess I'm a bit confused about the day 8 part, being as not every woman is on the same place in her cycle on day "8" so does that matter?
And then I'm curious if by suppository she means shes taking progest-E vaginally or a different form of progesterone altogether.

Gracias!

Lanthir · Sep 20, 2014

I am going to attempt to use Progest-E as a contraceptive and I was wondering if anyone had any insight on this at all? The website that a previous post recommended was from ProgesteroneTherapy.com and the way that the woman instructs one to use progesterone and the daily amount is very confusing and not clear at all. It also has radically high amounts such as 200-600 mg a day. That would mean about one bottle of progest-e a month if am lucky..Probably more like two. And if that IS the case, then that's fine. I will make it work. Also, if I am going to have to take that much at once, am I going to get a sleepy tired effect at the beginning? I would assume so. I'm not sure how to go about that since I am a full time student and working full time. I can't really just pass out anytime I'd like.

The main things that I need clarified are:

When exactly each cycle to use it and when to stop.
How many milligrams to use on which days.
How to apply progest-e for this purpose since it is a liquid. Can or should I make my own lotion? Or can I just apply it multiple times through the gums or even take it orally to get my daily amount in.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. It is almost impossible to find out information about how exactly to use progesterone for this purpose. This is my last attempt before I try to find a homeopathic professional to help me out..Unless anyone has a better alternative for a professional that might be able to give me instructions. Thanks guys! Sorry for the long post.

aguilaroja · Sep 20, 2014

Lanthir said:
I am going to attempt to use Progest-E as a contraceptive
...from ProgesteroneTherapy.com .... It also has radically high amounts such as 200-600 mg a day. That would mean about one bottle of progest-e a month if am lucky..
...if I am going to have to take that much at once, am I going to get a sleepy tired effect at the beginning?
..Unless anyone has a better alternative for a professional that might be able to give me instructions....

Briefly, I would caution against oral/"systemic" progesterone for this application. What is being described is high doses, with at the very least, inconvenient effects. I will discuss individual experience with "topical" use in the vaginal region for contraception. I'll aim to post either later in the day or in the next two days, as time permits. I would recommend this application TOGETHER with a barrier (condom/diaphragm) method.

I have no insight about what a homeopathic opinion is regarding progesterone and contraception.

Blossom · Sep 20, 2014

Peat did mention progesterone applied directly to the cervix for contraception in one of his books. I will look through the material tonight and try to find a direct quote for you. I agree with aquilaroja about combining that method with a condom or diaphragm if you choose to go the Progest-e applied topically to the cervix route. I look forward to reading the information aquilaroja finds for you as it is sure to be helpful and scientifically sound.

aguilaroja · Sep 20, 2014

Lanthir said:
...Progest-E as a contraceptive ....

First, the topic is delicate, so the expression here is cautious. To be clear, NO form of contraception is 100% effective. The possibility of conception exists with intercourse, and participants should keep that in mind even if probabilities "seem" small. There are lots of views about birth control, intercourse, and conception. Only anecdotal methodology is discussed here.

For background, though progesterone is named to be "pro" "gestational", progesterone would seem to have a role in preventing further conceiving after one implantation. That is, women who have intimate relations during pregnancy do not have overlapping pregnancies.

I do not have experience with huge oral/transdermal uses of progesterone for contraception. IMNHE, huge amounts of progesterone are not frequently needed a main metabolic support. As Lanthir mentioned, using huge doses of progesterone for birth control beyond supportive amounts might bring impairing sedation/sleepiness/anesthesia among other concerns.

The idea, as Blossom mentioned and Dr. Peat described, is applying Progest-E gently through the vagina to the cervix region. It has been a while since this maneuver-my recollection is the volume of drops is 3 to 6 drops. As mentioned in some posts, some batches of Progest-E have a thicker consistency than others. When necessary, a small bit of coconut oil was used to help Progest-E spread across the target area.

The application was done shortly before intercourse (less than a few hours, not necessarily just before). In serious comedy, I recall that one application was used per evening session, but the number of performances was in the single digits...

Though, as with any topical application, there is the possibility of systemic effects, no side effects like sedation, accelerated metabolism, or other things were noticed. Occasional use of Progest-E in this way did not seem to alter the pattern of individual menstrual cycles.

The general approach was discussed with Dr. Peat, though I do not recall asking about barrier methods in combination. All couples, sharing the concern of additive effectiveness, used Progest-E plus a barrier method (condom or diaphragm). Keep in mind that the sample size here is quite small: less than two dozen couples besides myself and partner. With some humor, I'll say that I have no data about the total number of sessions each couples used the application.

There were no unwanted pregnancies with this combined Progest-E/barrier method. Of the several couples who later wished to conceive, all successfully had healthy babies (and uneventful pregnancy and delivery) after discontinuing contraception.

Again, the sample size was small so not necessarily representative, and all those involved understood the responsibilities if conception took place. Even beyond the usual forum disclaimer, this is NOT medical advice and is for discussion purposes only.

Blossom · Sep 20, 2014

I found the following in From PMS to Menopause chapter 16
Ray Peat wrote on the topic of progesterone:

if used before intercourse, it prevents conception, and thus is a true contraceptive, while estrogen is an abortafacient, not a contraceptive.

Many women use it vaginally, spread onto a diaphragm, to hold it in contact with the membranes.

I've not needed contraception since discovering Peat's work so I can't speak from personal experience, but if I did, I think I would try it.

sunmountain · Sep 20, 2014

Just saw this post. It will be very helpful for my daughter, who is currently using condoms only. If I understand correctly, this method should not interfere with menses. A question -- how do you make the progesterone reach the cervix?? I can think of a couple different ways, but not sure which is more effective.

Sorry to be graphic, but I need to understand...

paper_clips43 · Sep 21, 2014

I just finished reading the book "Left in the Dark" today and coincidentally it mentions using progesterone and melatonin as a safer contraceptive than estrogen.

As fascinating as I did find this I still wouldn't recommend it.

I am curios though if anyone else has read this book? I am also curios if Ray Peat has read it and what he has to say about it.

You can read the book for free here
http://leftinthedark.org.uk/sites/defau ... dition.pdf

Note: The part about contraception is on page 145.

paper_clips43 · Sep 21, 2014

Here is an excerpt from the book for anyone interested but not wanting to read it.

"All this has raised the possibility of using melatonin as an oral contraceptive.
Endocrinologist Michael Cohen, formally of Dijkzigt University Hospital in Rotterdam, has
discovered that high doses of melatonin, when combined with the female hormone
progesterone, can block ovulation. Because of questions concerning the safety of the
oestrogen-based contraceptive pill (oestrogen has been shown to increase the risk of certain
forms of cancer), Dr Cohen set out to develop a new oestrogen-free pill. His research resulted
in a contraceptive pill that contained a dose of 75 mg of melatonin with a small amount of
synthetic progesterone. During trials, carried out in Holland, over two thousand women took
this pill for over three years. It proved every bit as reliable as the standard pill and what was
perhaps just as remarkable was that the women reported no unpleasant side effects – no
headaches or bloating, both of which can occur with the oestrogen pill. In fact the women in
the trial reported a generally heightened sense of well being. "

honeybee · Sep 21, 2014

Word of caution for diaphragm users-anything oil based can and will break down the diaphragm material leading to a less effective/compromised barrier protection. :!:

HDD · Sep 21, 2014

"Estrogen increases the production of mucus in the cervix and vagina, and increases its water content and mobility. Abundant and fluid mucus has a cleaning action, eliminating bacteria and other material. Progesterone makes the mucus more viscous and less hydrophilic, and when it dominates the reproductive physiology, it effectively creates a plug in the cervix that prevents the entry of sperms.
The choice of the cervix and vagina suggests that the authors were "engineering" the experimental outcome, because the effect of progesterone on cervical mucus is very well known."
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/es ... ncer.shtml

"Progesterone was known, by the early 1940s, to protect against the many toxic effects of estrogen, including abortion, but it was also known as nature's contraceptive, since it can prevent pregnancy without harmful side-effects, by different mechanisms, including prevention of sperm entry into the uterus. That is, progesterone prevents the miscarriages which result from excess estrogen (1,2), but if used before intercourse, it prevents conception, and thus is a true contraceptive, while estrogen is an abortifacient, not a contraceptive."
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ions.shtml

HDD · Sep 23, 2014

This is from Rayser in another contraception thread.

"Dr. Katharina Dalton has done a lot of research on progesterone as birth control (You don't get it in a pill!). You'll find all the information in her book. I use progest-e-complex as a birth control and so do many of my friends. No unwanted pregnancies since 2009. The method is as safe as the estrogen pill. You use the drops 3 times a day (I use a pea-sized drop on my tongue) and stop for 4 to 5 days before you start again.
Btw - the injection is nothing more than a concentrated version of the pill and just as harmful, only less safe because less tested.

/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1481&start=10

Lanthir · Sep 23, 2014

Haagendazendiane said:
This is from Rayser in another contraception thread.

"Dr. Katharina Dalton has done a lot of research on progesterone as birth control (You don't get it in a pill!). You'll find all the information in her book. I use progest-e-complex as a birth control and so do many of my friends. No unwanted pregnancies since 2009. The method is as safe as the estrogen pill. You use the drops 3 times a day (I use a pea-sized drop on my tongue) and stop for 4 to 5 days before you start again.
Btw - the injection is nothing more than a concentrated version of the pill and just as harmful, only less safe because less tested.

/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1481&start=10

Do you think when she says "stop for 4 or 5 days before you start again" she means before your monthly cycle or just in general?

To summarize what I have learned so far, one would need to use 3-6 drops on the cervix prior to activity as well as an additional barrier method.

Here is an excerpt from an interview from the woman mentioned in the post above, Dr. Katharina Dalton.. I believe she is referring to taking progesterone as a suppository. And way more than anyone here has referred to.

"Has anyone used progesterone as birth control?
Yes.

What dose would be used for that?
I use 200 mg from day 8 to the onset of menstruation, but if they tend to have PMS and they’re going to increase at day 14, they might have 400 mg two to three times daily until menstruation, and they’re perfectly safe. It’s as safe as the progestogen-only pill; we haven’t done enough cases to show the safety, whether it’s identical to the estrogen progestogen.

In the Dalton protocol, it was published as 100 mg from day 8, and you said 200 just now.

I should explain that in Britain we have 400-mg vaginal suppositories; and, therefore, it is easier to cut those in half and use 200 mg a day from day 8 until the increase of progesterone dosage at ovulation. However, you are lucky in America in that you can get suppositories of 100 mg progesterone, which is adequate for contraception from day 8 until menstruation. The dose of progesterone from ovulation to menstruation can be increased if there is a history of PMS.

http://www.natural-progesterone-advisor ... dalton.pdf

HDD · Sep 24, 2014

Lanthir said:
Haagendazendiane said:

This is from Rayser in another contraception thread.

"Dr. Katharina Dalton has done a lot of research on progesterone as birth control (You don't get it in a pill!). You'll find all the information in her book. I use progest-e-complex as a birth control and so do many of my friends. No unwanted pregnancies since 2009. The method is as safe as the estrogen pill. You use the drops 3 times a day (I use a pea-sized drop on my tongue) and stop for 4 to 5 days before you start again.
Btw - the injection is nothing more than a concentrated version of the pill and just as harmful, only less safe because less tested.

/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1481&start=10

Click to expand...

Do you think when she says "stop for 4 or 5 days before you start again" she means before your monthly cycle or just in general?

>>>>>I am not sure but I think she means stopping for regular menstrual cycle and it seems from her post that progest-e is all she uses. Using drops 3 x a day could be around 100 mg as Dalton recommends.

To summarize what I have learned so far, one would need to use 3-6 drops on the cervix prior to activity as well as an additional barrier method.

Here is an excerpt from an interview from the woman mentioned in the post above, Dr. Katharina Dalton.. I believe she is referring to taking progesterone as a suppository. And way more than anyone here has referred to.

"Has anyone used progesterone as birth control?
Yes.

What dose would be used for that?
I use 200 mg from day 8 to the onset of menstruation, but if they tend to have PMS and they’re going to increase at day 14, they might have 400 mg two to three times daily until menstruation, and they’re perfectly safe. It’s as safe as the progestogen-only pill; we haven’t done enough cases to show the safety, whether it’s identical to the estrogen progestogen.

In the Dalton protocol, it was published as 100 mg from day 8, and you said 200 just now.

I should explain that in Britain we have 400-mg vaginal suppositories; and, therefore, it is easier to cut those in half and use 200 mg a day from day 8 until the increase of progesterone dosage at ovulation. However, you are lucky in America in that you can get suppositories of 100 mg progesterone, which is adequate for contraception from day 8 until menstruation. The dose of progesterone from ovulation to menstruation can be increased if there is a history of PMS.

http://www.natural-progesterone-advisor ... dalton.pdf

>>>>I wonder if the progesterone Dalton refers to is not as absorbable as Progest-e?

I will try to find the information from Ray Peat on the % absorbed comparison.

HDD · Sep 24, 2014

It seems Rayser could be ingesting approximately 100 mg daily except for 4-5 days of the month?

Dalton says 100 mg is adequate for contraception.

Lanthir · Sep 24, 2014

That's kind if what I was thinking. She does say pea sized three times a day. Maybe close to that and then also cervicle application as well just to be sure. Thank you so much for your help. Everyone that has contributed has been very much appreciated!

HDD · Sep 25, 2014

"Natural progesterone placed in the vagina during intercourse has been very effective in my studies, but hasn't been officially approved. Progesterone's normal effects include maintenance of pregnancy, and that requires the prevention of additional pregnancies during the course of an established one. It's presence in the vagina during intercourse causes the cells to react as if there were already an established pregnancy."

Pg. 9, From PMS to Menopause

sunmountain · Sep 25, 2014

Can someone summarize this protocol?

Is it --

3 drops per day on tongue from day 8 until menses
PLUS
3 drops in cervix a few hours prior to intercourse?

Thank you

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Progest-E For Contraception

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