Newbie needs help

Biggonz

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Sep 23, 2014
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Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum and thyroid supplementation. I am a 52-year-old male 6'3" tall 322 pounds, very muscular but probably 75 or 80 lbs overweight. I have been on testosterone replacement therapy for many years. I self inject once per week. Lately I have had a hard time absorbing my testosterone. The doctors theory is that because I am fat much of my testosterone is converting to estrogen. So one month ago the doctor prescribed Armidex twice per week to try and keep my estrogen numbers down. Last tests showed my estrogen numbers near 300. We just retested, and I have not seen those numbers yet
I have always had a struggle with energy towards the end of the day. When I've asked my doctor to check my thyroid numbers. The results have always shown me at the very low end of "normal". So they have not chosen to supplement. After lots of reading I decided to order thyroid on the pimpom website. I ordered Thiroyd 60 mg and have been chewing up and swallowing one pill in the morning on an empty stomach and one pill around dinner time on an empty stomach. Initially I felt the sweats and rapid heartbeat, but that has settled down. But my appetite has gone through the roof… craving sugar, And I feel certain I have gained weight. There is no change in my energy level. I supplement with vitamin D about 12,000iu per day, three drops of 4000iu Carlson, 1 tablespoon of natural calm late at night, zinc and krill oil. Other medications include amdol/benzap 5-20 once per day and nasonex.
I try to eat clean. More of a primal style. Very little bread or sugar. Good fats, proteins, vegetables. I lift heavy kettle bells.… When I have the energy ...

I need to drop weight, I want to feel better again. I force myself through workouts when I have time and energy. The weight is probably what's causing my ED even cialis doesn't always help, I have to sleep with a CPAP, I'm just not happy.

Am I supplementing the Thiroyd correctly? Are any of the other medications or supplements getting in the way of its effectiveness?

Seriously… Help!!!
 

Blossom

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Welcome Biggonz :welcome2. Reading through the dietary recommendations here on the forum should be beneficial in helping you understand the various ways we can eat to help optimize thyroid function. I would also stop the krill oil since it is high pufa. Hopefully others will have some more specific insights to share.
 

Mittir

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RP thinks one needs to have at least 160 total cholesterol, preferably 200
before starting thyroid supplement. He also thinks one needs to have
glycogen storage repleted before starting thyroid as thyroid supplement
increases use of sugar. One of the symptoms of low thyroid is the inability
to store liver glycogen. Fructose, lactose, sucrose with potassium is helpful
in repleting glycogen. Pure glucose is not good at refilling liver glycogen.
People often have low active thyroid hormone due to
low carbohydrate intake. I remember reading a study that found below 125 grams
of carbohydrate intake active thyroid hormone starts decreasing.
Body also increases active thyroid hormone with increasing carbohydrate intake.
Increased thyroid function also increases need for certain nutrients.
 

Katty

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Agree with Mittir. You need some sugar. Can you try adding oj and whatever fruit you like? Do you know how many grams of carbs you are eating now?
Also, what kind of vegetables are you eating? I'd cut out all cruciferous veggies (cabbage, kale, broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts), especially if you've been eating them regularly. They contain goitrogens that suppress thyroid function.
 
OP
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Biggonz

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I have believed that sugar and flour are the enemy! I have been eating 50-150 grams of carb. Avoiding most fruit except berries, eating plenty of Brussels sprouts, broccoli, etc
Yikes!
I tend to eat more high fat, (quality fat), low carb, fairly high protein
 

Katty

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The ratio of carbs to proteins to fat will vary by individual. However I often see the following ratio recommended in the Peat community: 50% carbs, 25-30% protein, 20-25% fat. That might be a good starting place. You don't have to jump to these numbers overnight, but you can make slow changes to get there. Less than 200 g of carbs would pretty much never be recommended in the Peat community, especially for someone who has healing to do- and especially for a 6'3 male.
Berries generally are not recommended because of the seeds (PUFA, and potential gut irritant). If they don't bother you, it's probably fine to have some, but you should really try to start incorporating other fruits.

I understand the fear of sugar. A lot of us came from the low carb paleo community. I don't think I've read of anyone going back to low carb, even if Peating didn't entirely solve his/her issues (of course it's possible because it's not like they'd send me a newsletter, but I get the impression it's rare).

If you insist on eating veggies, try to stick with root vegetables, well cooked.

You might want to start taking your temp and pulse at various times throughout the day- upon waking before getting out of bed, about 20 mins after breakfast, and then again sometime in afternoon. You'll know what food ratios work for you when your temp and pulse are good.
 

SQu

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about afternoon tiredness - some of us discussed it and the conclusion was we needed more protein, earlier in the day. but not in the form of meat. more likely low fat milk, eggs and low fat cheese. Taken with sugar. Perhaps one of the knowledgeable people here could discuss how much protein someone of your size needs. I think you're going to find big energy improvements here. Good luck.
 

aguilaroja

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Biggonz said:
Hi Guys,
I'm new to the forum and thyroid supplementation. I am a 52-year-old male 6'3" tall 322 pounds, very muscular but probably 75 or 80 lbs overweight. I have been on testosterone replacement therapy for many years. ...So one month ago the doctor prescribed Armidex twice per week to try and keep my estrogen numbers down. Last tests showed my estrogen numbers near 300.

...I decided to order thyroid on the pimpom website. I ordered Thiroyd 60 mg and have been chewing up and swallowing one pill in the morning on an empty stomach and one pill around dinner time...
I supplement with vitamin D about 12,000iu per day, three drops of 4000iu Carlson, 1 tablespoon of natural calm late at night, zinc and krill oil. Other medications include amdol/benzap 5-20 once per day and nasonex.
...

WADR, this forum is followed by people who are pursuing Dr. Peat's ideas, which is not limited to a view of thyroid. The work applies a larger view of metabolism, to improve life. There is only a bit discussed about the context of how the situation developed. It is also not clear how it was determined to begin supplementing thyroid.

So briefly:

At the amount selected, it is probably preferred to break the Thiroyd tablets in half and use a half tablet four times a day. In the short term, do what is easiest for the frequency rather than trying to make the timing perfect, say, before meals. It is usually better to take the T3 (liothyronine) part of NDT at more frequent intervals, especially in the beginning. It would be good to re-visit the rationale and response for augmenting thyroid within a few weeks.

As Katty mentioned, it is good to track resting (that is, sitting or lying) temperature and pulse at least once daily. The trends over time, rather than a single reading (apart from high fever), are the main thing.

It is also preferred to stop the krill oil. Was this being taken to reduce cholesterol? What are recent cholesterol numbers and have there been very high ones in the past? Dr. Peat discourages adding omega-3 fatty acids. Conversely, are there any food sources of cholesterol, or have you intentionally been avoiding them?

Do you notice any change in symptoms with the Arimedex?

Please track your blood pressure even more carefully, with your physician or health care provider, after starting thyroid. There is dogma about hyper-thyroidism increasing blood pressure. Depending on the starting point, more optimal thyroid function can move blood pressure in either direction from previously. This could affect figure into the thyroid decision making, or affect the Amlodipine/benazepril (Lotrel) dose requirement. Does your diet include salt (sodium chloride), or do you avoid it?

Were there known events that provoked the low testosterone?

If you are using proprietary supplements, it is best to mention their ingredients. I believe the "Natural Calm" product being referred to is magnesium carbonate and citrate.

The recommendation for sugar includes, even emphasizes, safe, ripe fruits, which will also provide potassium and other minerals:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=588

If you are pursuing Dr. Peat's ideas, there are many articles on his web site, and many threads on the forum about supportive diet and other measures.
---
http://raypeat.com/
"The key idea was that energy and structure are interdependent, at every level.

"Since then, I have been working on both practical and theoretical aspects of this view. I think only a new perspective on the nature of living matter will make it possible to properly take advantage of the multitude of practical and therapeutic effects of the various life-supporting substances--pregnenolone, progesterone, thyroid hormone, and coconut oil in particular.

"Marketing" of these as products, without understanding just what they do and why they do it, seems to be adding confusion,...The very concept of "marketing" is at odds with the real nature of these materials, which has to do with the protection and expansion of our nature and potential...
It seems that all of the problems of development and degeneration can be alleviated by the appropriate use of the energy-protective materials. When we realize that our human nature is problematic, we can begin to explore our best potentials.

----Ray Peat"

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml
"In declaring EPA and DHA to be safe, the FDA neglected to evaluate their antithyroid, immunosuppressive, lipid peroxidative (Song et al., 2000), light sensitizing, and antimitochondrial effects, their depression of glucose oxidation (Delarue et al., 2003), and their contribution to metastatic cancer (Klieveri, et al., 2000), lipofuscinosis and liver damage, among other problems."

http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/o ... text.shtml
"Temperature and Fat: The fact that saturated fats are dominant in tropical plants and in warm-blooded animals relates to the stability of these oils at high temperatures.....
Fish, which often live in water which is only a few degrees above freezing, couldn't function with hardened fat. At temperatures which are normal for fish, and for seeds which germinate in the cold northern springtime, rancidity of fats isn't a problem, but rigidity would be."
 

Katty

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Biggonz said:
Thanks Katty,
What kind of temps am I looking for?

Like aguilaroja said, you're looking for trends. If your body temps are low, you want them to increase with time. Body temp and pulse are good indicators of metabolic function. Low body temp and pulse shows low metabolic function.
For a general idea, you're shooting to wake up with a temperature of 97.8-98.2 or even a tad higher. Then the temp should increase as the day goes on, peaking late afternoon or early evening, and then possible dropping slightly again before bed.

Your temp and pulse should rise after every meal. So if you wake with a temp of 97.7, you want it to be closer to 98.6 after breakfast.
Pulse should be around 75-90- again, might be lower upon waking, then increase throughout the day.

Obviously all thermometers will be slightly different. Underarm temps will be lower than oral temps. I used to hear people recommending taking underarm temps, but now I believe Peat has said he prefers oral temps. Just be consistent about whether you take oral or underarm temps so that you can see trends. You want to leave the thermometer in your mouth (or underarm) for about 10 minutes (a bit less can be ok).
 

Mittir

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Measuring waking temperature is helpful to understand if stress hormones
were high or low. I think bare minimum is to measure temperature 1-2 hours after
breakfast. RP also thinks after breakfast temperature pulse are more accurate
reflection of metabolism. A person can have high temperature and pulse
in fasting state from stress hormones like cortisol and adrenaline.

RP also recommends measuring ear drum temperature. I think there are
thermometers that measures ear, foreheads and skin temp.
I did not hear him say anything about 10 minutes. I think 10 minutes comes
from Broda Barnes. RP thinks it may take an hour or two
for person with a lot of fat to reflect real temperature in underarm
measurement. He also thinks sometime oral temperature can be misleading
in that case checking temperature of tip of nose, fingers and toes are helpful.
 

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