Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WTF?

So I came back from Walmart to my hostel (looking for an apartment somewhere near Denver atm), and I ate coconut oil chips and cottage cheese until I was full and drank about a liter of orange juice. I took a bunch of stuff, niacinamide, pregnenolone, progest-E, a little cypro, tianeptine, half a tablet of lisuride, some low dose of belladonna berries, and I took all of this so I would be less anxious at the club and interact better. I've been taking only tianeptine and belladonna lately.

I go, I feel normal at first, periodically dance, check out which females I would wanna talk to, at one point talk to some guys, shake hands. So then I dance, then wander again, then I start feeling weak and instead of dancing I just lean against the wall. I end up going to the main room looking for a chair. So I don't find one, and end up leaning against the bar, slowly I feel weaker and weaker and dark clouds start filling my vision and I'm starting to lose hearing. I start to feel hot and sweat. I actually turn blind and can't hear eventually, so I didn't ask anyone for help because I didn't know who was still there. At this point I feared I got drugged or someone gave me some lethal substance for some reason.

Keep in mind I didn't drink ANYTHING at the club, not even water. I knew it wasn't a good idea to go outside because maybe someone drugged and planned to mug me. I just leaned there on the bar for like 2 or 3 minutes. The bartender said if I wasn't going to stay awake, I was going to have to leave. I said okay, fortunately now I could kind of see her, but I was still somewhat blind. It was dark and everything had a different color to it. I felt really hot and I was sweating so I took off the shirt above my other one.

I go to the bathroom and a couple of bouncers ask me to leave. My vision and hearing were still off, I just go along with them to the exit. My coordination was fine, so they didn't think I was drunk, maybe they thought I was on something else. They kept me from peeing, so they probably thought I was. Everything was still a different color, my ears still buzzed. I go back to the hostel nearby, I ask a friend if I look weak, he says my eyes aren't that open (I was still tired, weak). I go to sleep, things seem to improve, though I may still feel very slightly light-headed.

I've never had this happen to me before. Only fainting upon standing up from a sitting position, and short-lived, but this was many minutes in duration and it wasn't triggered by standing up, because there was nowhere to sit.

What I suspect most? The half tablet of lisuride probably shut off blood flow to my brain temporarily. I noticed when I first tried it that it would constrict my pupils noticably. May also have been niacinamide since I didn't take it on a regular basis, but I doubt it since it never caused this issue. The cottage cheese and chips had plenty of sodium but this happened anyway. The belladonna also should of prevented this, but apparently the dose was too small. Atropine is used for emergencies like this when blood flow doesn't flow to the brain. I felt better from regular low doses.

Weird thing is, I took half a tablet of lisuride before, and I was walking a long-distance, but nothing happened. Maybe it was the niacinamide. I have no idea what happened. I dunno if I should go back home and get medical attention, since it would be quicker there. I could take more belladonna or datura to prevent this from happening in the future. I took nothing else other than what I stated, I have no clue what it was.

Btw, it's worth stating usually my temp and pulse are too high to donate blood, and sometimes blood pressure, this is from anxiety. The temp I get down by breathing on the thermometer, and pulse they remeasure and I can get down sufficiently by relaxing. I have orthostatic hypotension whether I'm around people or not, from standing up too quick. But again, I didn't do that at all, and it was many minutes in duration, something I never experienced.

I remember RP mentioned a lady who went blind for a longer duration, I think during PMS, and he advised ice cream, which helped due to sugar, or something like that. But I ate enough before I went. Maybe the dancing and anxiety wore out my glycogen storage, in addition to niacinamide. I wasn't as strong as usual when I was dancing either but I suspected it was from niacinamide, progest-E, or low-dose cypro causing drowsiness. Or it was my trip to Walmart that made me weak. But no lack of vision, nothing abnormal for me at all, until I looked for a chair.

So anyone have any clue what happened?

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

dunno mate that sounds rather unpleasant. Maybe try those things without the psycho-actives on their own if its just a bit of anxiety you want to get over. Also maybe try a bit of bag breathing/meditation before going out. usually puts my head in a good space. Or even just crank some awesome music and dance round like a lunatic at home first!

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Well dropping the tianeptine would make me a zombie who isn't motivated to go out in the first place, it's super-effective for me for some reason. Maybe because I have a form of ADD/ADHD. And belladonna/datura would prevent stuff like this from happening so definitely not dropping it.

And keep in mind I wasn't more anxious than usual, and I go out everyday. I meditate and listen to music a lot already, I wasn't too concerned when I was the most active dancer there either. Like I said, I suspect lisuride because it constricts my pupils, which happens with low blood pressure, or niacinamide since it depletes glycogen. But I'm not sure.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

I know a girl that lost her vision temporarily when she was pregnant. She was having dinner at a restaurant when it happened. I thought in her case and possibly in yours that sugar is the problem. Maybe next time sip on OJ or coke all evening.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Have you ever taken seven things at once in the past, and secondly have you ever done so before going to a club? Also, how long have you been at that elevation?

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Such_Saturation said:

Have you ever taken seven things at once in the past, and secondly have you ever done so before going to a club? Also, how long have you been at that elevation?

Click to expand...

I've been at the elevation for like 7 weeks and got over brain fog issues in only a few weeks. And yes, for me taking supplements before a social gathering is common. Usually not lisuride, cypro, or niacinamide, but I thought when would be a better time than before a social gathering. The number of supplements doesn't matter, the type does, and what particularly happened.

Haagendazendiane said:

I know a girl that lost her vision temporarily when she was pregnant. She was having dinner at a restaurant when it happened. I thought in her case and possibly in yours that sugar is the problem. Maybe next time sip on OJ or coke all evening.

Click to expand...

So you think niacinamide was the cause of my episode?

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Cyproheptadine, tianeptine and lisuride all have some anti-serotonin action. Maybe their effects are cumulative and/or synergystic. If I wanted to use all those drugs at once, I'd add one a time, and each time I added one I would make sure I was in a position to sleep if I needed too, and wouldn't have to handle anything demanding (even driving) for quite a few hours. I am accustomed to cyproheptadine now, but I had to sleep after 2mg early on.

I'd also never go dancing without fuel available. I've had brief near blackouts in the past, and I now put them down to lack of sugar. How long from meal till symptoms?

How much niacinamide did you take? It can help you burn through sugar stores much faster.

I don't know much about using bella donna, other than that the key ingredient is sometimes used medicinally, but also that it can be a potentially deadly poison in inappropriate quantities. Possibly inappropriate quantities vary depending on other factors, including other drugs?

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

I don't know if the Niacinamide alone caused this but lack of fuel definitely could be a factor.

"In my experience of migraine, nausea and pain followed the visual signs, which consisted of a variable progression of blind spots and lights. When I eventually learned that I could stop the progression of symptoms by quickly eating a quart of ice cream, I saw that my insight could be applied to other situations in which similar visual events played a role, especially "eclampsia" and "epilepsy." For example, a woman who was 6 months pregnant called me around 10 o'clock one morning, to say that she had gone blind, and was alone in her country house. She said she had just eaten breakfast around 9 AM, and wasn't hungry, but I knew that the 6 month fetus has a great need for glucose, so I urged her to eat some fruit. She called me 15 minutes later to report that she had eaten a banana, and her vision had returned."
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/eclampsia.shtml

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Kenobi said:

Such_Saturation said:

Have you ever taken seven things at once in the past, and secondly have you ever done so before going to a club? Also, how long have you been at that elevation?

Click to expand...

I've been at the elevation for like 7 weeks and got over brain fog issues in only a few weeks. And yes, for me taking supplements before a social gathering is common. Usually not lisuride, cypro, or niacinamide, but I thought when would be a better time than before a social gathering. The number of supplements doesn't matter, the type does, and what particularly happened.

Haagendazendiane said:

I know a girl that lost her vision temporarily when she was pregnant. She was having dinner at a restaurant when it happened. I thought in her case and possibly in yours that sugar is the problem. Maybe next time sip on OJ or coke all evening.

Click to expand...

So you think niacinamide was the cause of my episode?

Click to expand...

Yes the number of supplements increases the sheer number of variables you are not accounting for. In addition a high number creates an anxious state related to the "binging" act. A thought is that you combine cyproheptadine and atropine, both of which have antimuscarinic activity; lisuride (also should speed heart through vagal blocking) and cyproheptadine which can block serotonin; pregnenolone and tianeptine (also can diminish serotonin), both glutamate modulators. I'm not sure if the number of supplements affected your choice of the type of supplement but I am led to believe so because of what happened, assuming you didn't intend to ruin your evening. I think it's always better to try and avoid associating anxiety with a setting which is already fragile, since it always takes time to disassociate them from each other.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

What HDD said.

tara said:

How much niacinamide did you take? It can help you burn through sugar stores much faster.

Click to expand...

And it can make it hard for the body to access fat stores when the sugar runs low.

I take ~100mg morning and night. When I accidentally took ~400-800mg at a time it did not go well.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Nothing says taking those drugs in combination is safe. RP recommends those in some limited use for some symptoms, but when I asked about safety of combination, his reply was very cautious. It may be ok, or it may not be, no one knows.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

tara said:

Cyproheptadine, tianeptine and lisuride all have some anti-serotonin action. Maybe their effects are cumulative and/or synergystic. If I wanted to use all those drugs at once, I'd add one a time, and each time I added one I would make sure I was in a position to sleep if I needed too, and wouldn't have to handle anything demanding (even driving) for quite a few hours. I am accustomed to cyproheptadine now, but I had to sleep after 2mg early on.

I'd also never go dancing without fuel available. I've had brief near blackouts in the past, and I now put them down to lack of sugar. How long from meal till symptoms?

How much niacinamide did you take? It can help you burn through sugar stores much faster.

I don't know much about using bella donna, other than that the key ingredient is sometimes used medicinally, but also that it can be a potentially deadly poison in inappropriate quantities. Possibly inappropriate quantities vary depending on other factors, including other drugs?

Click to expand...

So I'd have to bring some candy in to dance. Drinks aren't allowed in, and the only non-alcoholic ones they serve are water and redbull. Man I was pissed off when they told me that, lol. Not that $2 a cup is a good investment anyway.

In the recent past I could dance for hours, talk to people, everything, and nothing happened. I guess it was the niacinamide, I took a few hundred mg, which I took in the past but I was used to it. Like this, suddenly taking that much AND dancing, maybe that's the cause. Dunno the mechanism that lack of sugar can cause blindness though.

And belladonna/datura, I will make a thread on them. Another way to look at them, they are antidotes to the cholinergic pesticides used on crops today which are correlated with ADHD. Datura grows as a weed in many places so it's a very cheap supplement I think everyone should consider using in small amounts. If I had taken more Belladonna, I may have had enough blood flow to not lose my vision since it speeds the HR.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Such_Saturation said:

Kenobi said:

Such_Saturation said:

Have you ever taken seven things at once in the past, and secondly have you ever done so before going to a club? Also, how long have you been at that elevation?

Click to expand...

I've been at the elevation for like 7 weeks and got over brain fog issues in only a few weeks. And yes, for me taking supplements before a social gathering is common. Usually not lisuride, cypro, or niacinamide, but I thought when would be a better time than before a social gathering. The number of supplements doesn't matter, the type does, and what particularly happened.

Haagendazendiane said:

I know a girl that lost her vision temporarily when she was pregnant. She was having dinner at a restaurant when it happened. I thought in her case and possibly in yours that sugar is the problem. Maybe next time sip on OJ or coke all evening.

Click to expand...

So you think niacinamide was the cause of my episode?

Click to expand...

Yes the number of supplements increases the sheer number of variables you are not accounting for. In addition a high number creates an anxious state related to the "binging" act. A thought is that you combine cyproheptadine and atropine, both of which have antimuscarinic activity; lisuride (also should speed heart through vagal blocking) and cyproheptadine which can block serotonin; pregnenolone and tianeptine (also can diminish serotonin), both glutamate modulators. I'm not sure if the number of supplements affected your choice of the type of supplement but I am led to believe so because of what happened, assuming you didn't intend to ruin your evening. I think it's always better to try and avoid associating anxiety with a setting which is already fragile, since it always takes time to disassociate them from each other.

Click to expand...

See, but if I don't take anything, I am anxious. RP recommended diet and fixing gut issues instead of supplements, but nothing works for my specific issue (ADHD-like lack of motivation and affect) other than tianeptine, and as I'm finding, Datura/Belladonna. And anxiety, only niacinamide and progest-E seem to make a difference. The two combos, lack of positive affect and excessive negative affect, are both strong risk factors for social anxiety, and I need to take supps because high altitude, sunlight, diet, etc don't do a thing.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Do you need to take it all right before social activity? Progesterone and pregnenolone also require fuel.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

jyb said:

Nothing says taking those drugs in combination is safe. RP recommends those in some limited use for some symptoms, but when I asked about safety of combination, his reply was very cautious. It may be ok, or it may not be, no one knows.

Click to expand...

He also recommends correcting symptoms with diet or by fixing gut issues, but yet I ate a strict RP diet for almost 4 years with no results, and I moved to the perfect climate, but I still need tianeptine for my symptoms. His recommendations may work for MOST people because they don't have specific abnormalities like I do. When I gave my mom the same dose of tianeptine I take, she felt nothing, but for me it allows me to experience more affect, concentrate, have motivation, etc. So, what, should I stick to only it and not try anything else? Should I take only small amounts because RP said so, even if higher amounts treat me even better? It may work for most, but not me.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Haagendazendiane said:

Do you need to take it all right before social activity? Progesterone and pregnenolone also require fuel.

Click to expand...

I suppose my fallacy was not being used to them and taking them all at once. Btw, I'm aware that progesterone requires more fuel, but pregnenolone? I heard it only works in the presence of stress.

I guess I'll stick to Tianeptine and maybe try ramping niacinamide up slowly. Lisuride, I have no idea. It doesn't seem to effect me at all.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

Kenobi said:

Such_Saturation said:

Kenobi said:

Such_Saturation said:

Have you ever taken seven things at once in the past, and secondly have you ever done so before going to a club? Also, how long have you been at that elevation?

Click to expand...

I've been at the elevation for like 7 weeks and got over brain fog issues in only a few weeks. And yes, for me taking supplements before a social gathering is common. Usually not lisuride, cypro, or niacinamide, but I thought when would be a better time than before a social gathering. The number of supplements doesn't matter, the type does, and what particularly happened.

Haagendazendiane said:

I know a girl that lost her vision temporarily when she was pregnant. She was having dinner at a restaurant when it happened. I thought in her case and possibly in yours that sugar is the problem. Maybe next time sip on OJ or coke all evening.

Click to expand...

So you think niacinamide was the cause of my episode?

Click to expand...

Yes the number of supplements increases the sheer number of variables you are not accounting for. In addition a high number creates an anxious state related to the "binging" act. A thought is that you combine cyproheptadine and atropine, both of which have antimuscarinic activity; lisuride (also should speed heart through vagal blocking) and cyproheptadine which can block serotonin; pregnenolone and tianeptine (also can diminish serotonin), both glutamate modulators. I'm not sure if the number of supplements affected your choice of the type of supplement but I am led to believe so because of what happened, assuming you didn't intend to ruin your evening. I think it's always better to try and avoid associating anxiety with a setting which is already fragile, since it always takes time to disassociate them from each other.

Click to expand...

See, but if I don't take anything, I am anxious. RP recommended diet and fixing gut issues instead of supplements, but nothing works for my specific issue (ADHD-like lack of motivation and affect) other than tianeptine, and as I'm finding, Datura/Belladonna. And anxiety, only niacinamide and progest-E seem to make a difference. The two combos, lack of positive affect and excessive negative affect, are both strong risk factors for social anxiety, and I need to take supps because high altitude, sunlight, diet, etc don't do a thing.

Click to expand...

Be careful that atropine increases heart rate and output but decreases stroke volume and blood pressure. Do also you get tics, obsessive actions or movements along with lack of positive affect and excessive negative affect?

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

I woke up with a migraine after taking pregnenolone at bedtime. This post from a while ago is what came to mind.



Re: pregnenelone steal etc
by kettlebell » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:39 am

I agree - Pregnenolone is definitely a good supplement. I use it myself.

Although not likely, I think the possibility of pregnenolone being changed into an unwanted stress hormone is still possible. It would be under the circumstances when a person has still not corrected their blood sugar levels after taking it. Taking it with lots of sugar and then taking some good sugary food again an hour or two later would easily stop the potential issue though.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

It also seems like an overabundance of fuel demanding supplements on top of a stressful situation.

Re: Lost vision for WHOLE MINUTE, almost fainted at club, WT

I've had bouts like you describe. Can't comment on many of those other factors, but if it was me I'd say definitely low blood sugar. Even after a litre of OJ. In fact when my body was still not using sugar well (it's got better lately), I could have tons of sugar, salt etc and still get low blood sugar problems eg migraine. And niacinamide was a particular problem, along with pregnenolone. I think the more they boost, the more the likelihood of a blood sugar drop in spite of all the sugar. RP says a quart of ice cream and that is a big amount, and yes it is the most effective thing, but the fact that you need that much says a lot.