Any Reasons/situations NOT To Take T3/cytomel

yoshiesque

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
367
I will probably get on this soon, since everyone who follows RP basically goes on about it. Just want to know what the drawbacks are or any situations where it would not be recommended. Eg what if i have adrenal fatigue issues? Coz i think i might either have that or be hypothyroid.
 

kineticz

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
496
Age
35
Location
West Midlands, GB
What are your symptoms and diet?

I have had good steady results in the past with 12.5mcg T3 every three hours, any more and I get feelings of increased adrenaline.

The mitochondria and liver need to be able to metabolise increased T3 capacity.
 
OP
Y

yoshiesque

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
367
fatigue, dizzyness, weakness, ibs (from stress) are main ones.

just not sure if fatigue is an adrenal issue. so im not sure if taking t3 in a situation where i might have that is good.
 

kineticz

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
496
Age
35
Location
West Midlands, GB
T3 will boost adrenal enzymes and lift you out of sluggishness, at least initially.

T3 is also relatively risk free. So it's worth a try and then you can backtrack and nourish the adrenals.

Have you tried pregnenolone?
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
Hi yoshiesque

Do you have temps/pulse/labs results?
I've not tried T3, and may want to some time if I can get it. The cautions I have from reading here and Peat's articles etc and other places are:

Raising thyroid function by any means, including T3 supps, usually requires more of many parts of nutrition. If there are deficiencies it can deepen them; if you are teetering on just enough of something, it can fall into deficiency. This can result in additional stress and/or particular deficiency symptoms. This includes vitamins, protein and coverall calories. Some minerals may be better retained with higher thyroid function (eg Mg, Na), but there may be some that are used up faster (not sure about this, but I wonder if copper and potassium would be in this category?)

Trying to raise thyroid function/metabolism too high may elicit defensive mechanisms. Eg, presuming your thyroid gland is still producing some T4 and T3, your system could decide to convert some of the T4 into RT3 to block some of the T3 action. I think this may be more likely to happen with t4 supps, but I think it may also be theoretically possible with T3 supps if too high.

Some people, including Peat, have experience heart beat symptoms, eg skips and flutters, on T3 only supplementation. Peat added T4 back in to avoid this for himself.

T3 has a short half-life of a few hours and a healthy body produces 3-4mcg/hr. Taking more than 1-2mcg at a time may be unphysiologic. Some people say it works fine for them to take more, but you are asking about risks.

Some temporary increase in sensitivity to adrenaline seems common. If it is mild and temporary, that's not necessarily a big problem.

Good luck and keep us posted if you go ahead.

I'm not by any means trying to talk you out of trying it if you have clear indications of hypothyroid state and are eating well (and remembering you may need to eat more). I would suggest starting with very small, eg 1-2 mcg doses several times a day, and monitoring temps etc to assess the effects. As you say, you can back off if you experience difficulties. If it helps, but doesn't get your temps up all the way, you can always slowly add more after a bit. The slow cautious incremental approach to dosing seems to cause people fewer and more easily resolved problems than a more reckless high-dosing start.
 

answersfound

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
991
Age
31
yoshiesque said:
I will probably get on this soon, since everyone who follows RP basically goes on about it. Just want to know what the drawbacks are or any situations where it would not be recommended. Eg what if i have adrenal fatigue issues? Coz i think i might either have that or be hypothyroid.

I would definitely make sure your adrenals are strong enough before you try Cytomel. Otherwise, I don't think you have anything to be concerned with. Be prepared to use Pregnenolone if the Cytomel is too much for your adrenals to handle. This helps you tolerate it the same way hydrocortisone would.

Check this link out:

http://www.thyroidrt3.com/adrenals.htm

http://www.thyroidrt3.com/temperat.htm
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
lookingforanswers said:
yoshiesque said:
I will probably get on this soon, since everyone who follows RP basically goes on about it. Just want to know what the drawbacks are or any situations where it would not be recommended. Eg what if i have adrenal fatigue issues? Coz i think i might either have that or be hypothyroid.

I would definitely make sure your adrenals are strong enough before you try Cytomel. Otherwise, I don't think you have anything to be concerned with. Be prepared to use Pregnenolone if the Cytomel is too much for your adrenals to handle. This helps you tolerate it the same way hydrocortisone would.

Check this link out:

http://www.thyroidrt3.com/adrenals.htm

http://www.thyroidrt3.com/temperat.htm

From the temp link above:
Q: So I wake up at 7 a.m., warm under my covers; I take my basal temp. and it's a whopping 98.1! Woohoo! Then I go out to the kitchen, putter about, getting the kids ready for school, and I'm feeling chilly; I check my temps again and it's 97.8.
what gives?

Can I rely on temps taken when I'm warm under the covers? Or should I uncover myself, thus feeling cold, and then check my temp?

A: You are doing temps correctly but you need more cortisol in the AM. This means your thyroid levels are just about there where they need to be, but once you get up and moving and going about your day is when you need cortisol for the stresses of everyday living, and it is not there so temps drop.

I haven't come to grips with analysing temp and pulse patterns, but I would have guessed one of two different explanations. I don't know whether one of mine or the one linked above is more likely.

1. Snug (well-insulated) in bed, her surface temp was closer to her core temp. After rising into cooler air, her surface temp dropped. The measured temps were somewhere on the gradient between core and surface. The drop in measured temp (oral/axilary/?) reflected the change in environment, and there may or may not have been a real change in core temp. If this is the case, it doesn't say much about what's happening hormonally

2. The slightly higher in-bed temp reflected elevated stress hormones from the night's fast. After rising, breakfast lowered the stress hormones, and the resultant lower temp indicates lowish thyroid function. No indication of adrenal/cortisol insufficiency.

I think Peat has said that even if the adrenals are damaged, they can recover very quickly. Adequate thyroid takes the load off the adrenal glands and allows them to restore themselves.

I'd be interested if anyone can clarify this from a Peaty perspective.
 

HDD

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
2,075
Re: Ray Peat Email Advice Depository
Cortisol/Cortisone_ Dr. Ray Peat

Question: Have very hypothyroid friend who says she has low cortisol
because her pituitary doesn't work. She says the low cortisol was
confirmed by saliva and blood tests.

Ray Peat: Addison's disease, with adrenal cortex degeneration, can
cause cortisol deficiency, in which case progesterone would
compensate, but doctors often tell people they "don't have enough
cortisol" without proper confirmation.

Question: Would pregnenolone correct this?

Peat: Pregnenolone should usually do it, but progesterone is more
certain if the adrenals are really destroyed.

Question: What do you think of using Cortef?

Peat: I think William Jefferies' book created a lot of interest in
that. Since ACTH can interfere with ovarian function, cortisol can
sometimes help the ovaries to make progesterone, by suppressing ACTH.
But I knew people who followed his prescription and got Cushing's
symptoms. Pregnenolone is something that can always be used with
thyroid, to guarantee an easy adrenal response.

Cortisol vs Cortisone vs Cortef

Cortisol works in the body although the body can convert cortisol to
cortisone. Synthetic cortisol-like drugs, such as prednisone are more
like cortisol. Also, hydrocortisone is a drug that acts like
cortisol. The body makes 20 mg of cortisol daily. Taking 10 mg of
prednisone is equivalent to about 50 mg of cortisol or 2.5 times the
daily amount made in-vitro. Cortef is Hydrocortisone which acts like
cortisol.

Cortisol and weak adrenals

Cortisol is a little more water soluble than progesterone, and a
diurnal cycle can be seen in the saliva, but the absolute amounts
aren't as meaningful as in the serum. Thyroid is needed for the
adrenals to function
well, and adequate cholesterol, as raw material. It's popular to talk
about "weak adrenals," but the adrenal cortex regenerates very well.
Animal experimenters can make animals that lack the adrenal medulla by
scooping out everything inside the adrenal capsule, and the remaining
cells quickly regenerate the steroid producing tissues, the cortex. So
I think the "low adrenal" people are simply low thyroid, or deficient
in cholesterol or nutrients.


Question: If prednisone suppresses adrenal function, how does it
cause diabetes? This guy's diabetes is out of control. He is
spilling lots of sugar in his urine. So the cortisone isn't fixing
him at all. Do you think it would be possible to get him off the
cortisone, insulin and testosterone?

Peat: The doses they prescribe as "replacement" are much more than
the adrenals would produce, so they in themselves are diabetogenic.
William Jefferies told people that, since the adrenals produce 20 mg
of cortisol per day, they should take 30 or 40 mg, as a replacement
dose, because only half of it is absorbed. They got fat faces quickly.
Using pregnenolone, they were able to taper off the cortisol in a
month or two.

Bold is mine.
 
OP
Y

yoshiesque

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
367
okay i need to do some temp checking again, but cant find my damn thermometer. my heart rate is between 60 and 70 on average.

im waiting for labs to come back, which will have updated info on my t3,t4 etc. if t4 is not in the high end (it use to be back in the good ol days - a year ago) im gonna ask for some t4 first. start with small doses, and see how it effects me. then if things dont really improve ill ask for t3. pretty excited!! sick of feeling so tired n ***t.

ill start tracking temps soon and post that up too.
 
OP
Y

yoshiesque

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
367
question - has everyone who took (or is taking) t3 only taken it due to blood results showing low free t3? or did you take it even when your results were mid-range/normal, according to blood work ranges?
 

answersfound

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
991
Age
31
yoshiesque said:
question - has everyone who took (or is taking) t3 only taken it due to blood results showing low free t3? or did you take it even when your results were mid-range/normal, according to blood work ranges?

I don't think labs are necessary. If your temps are low and diet hasn't gotten you where you want to be, I don't see the harm in experimenting with a very small dose (1-2 mcg) of Cytomel and seeing how you feel. On the other hand, t4 could potentially give you problems.
 

BingDing

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
976
Location
Tennessee, USA
My temps and pulse were always good and I never had cold feet or hands, so I don't think I was ever hypo. When I finally got labs done they were in the lower normal range. I started with T3 because of an article here and because RP had suggested being slightly hyper was good. Also, I'm pretty sure rT3 can only be made from T4, so in that regard it is safe.

I've been using NDT for several months and small amounts of T3 occasionally. It's been really good, I wish I had started earlier.

Good post by HDD! And Tara! Being well nourished and replete in vitamins and minerals is fundamental, and RP is right about everything else, too.
 
OP
Y

yoshiesque

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
367
why would T4 potentially give you problems? From what RP and others have said, excess T4 is converted to Reverse T3. But excess T3 is NOT converted to Reverse T3.
 
OP
Y

yoshiesque

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
367
Also seems like lookingforanswers posted some info on how adrenal issues can be a good reason to not take Cytomel/t3. can anyone give insights or info where this is contradictory?
 

tara

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
10,368
My understanding is also that only T4 can be converted to rT3. However, I'm not sure exactly which signals the body relies on to determine whether to make rT3.If any one does know, I'm interested.
I'm presuming that OP is not intending to completely replace his endogenous T3 and T4 production, but rather supplement a little to top up the T3. If this assumption is correct, there should still be endogenous T4 production, right? So if he supplements just a bit more T3 than his body perceives to correspond to a safe level of metabolism, does the extra T3 encourage the conversion of some endogenous T4 into rT3?
 

BigChad

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
747
Hi yoshiesque

Do you have temps/pulse/labs results?
I've not tried T3, and may want to some time if I can get it. The cautions I have from reading here and Peat's articles etc and other places are:

Raising thyroid function by any means, including T3 supps, usually requires more of many parts of nutrition. If there are deficiencies it can deepen them; if you are teetering on just enough of something, it can fall into deficiency. This can result in additional stress and/or particular deficiency symptoms. This includes vitamins, protein and coverall calories. Some minerals may be better retained with higher thyroid function (eg Mg, Na), but there may be some that are used up faster (not sure about this, but I wonder if copper and potassium would be in this category?)

Trying to raise thyroid function/metabolism too high may elicit defensive mechanisms. Eg, presuming your thyroid gland is still producing some T4 and T3, your system could decide to convert some of the T4 into RT3 to block some of the T3 action. I think this may be more likely to happen with t4 supps, but I think it may also be theoretically possible with T3 supps if too high.

Some people, including Peat, have experience heart beat symptoms, eg skips and flutters, on T3 only supplementation. Peat added T4 back in to avoid this for himself.

T3 has a short half-life of a few hours and a healthy body produces 3-4mcg/hr. Taking more than 1-2mcg at a time may be unphysiologic. Some people say it works fine for them to take more, but you are asking about risks.

Some temporary increase in sensitivity to adrenaline seems common. If it is mild and temporary, that's not necessarily a big problem.

Good luck and keep us posted if you go ahead.

I'm not by any means trying to talk you out of trying it if you have clear indications of hypothyroid state and are eating well (and remembering you may need to eat more). I would suggest starting with very small, eg 1-2 mcg doses several times a day, and monitoring temps etc to assess the effects. As you say, you can back off if you experience difficulties. If it helps, but doesn't get your temps up all the way, you can always slowly add more after a bit. The slow cautious incremental approach to dosing seems to cause people fewer and more easily resolved problems than a more reckless high-dosing start.

Would this apply to Iodine? It exacerbates deficiencies, depletes a bunch of nutrients, promotes sodium magnesium retention etc.

This seems dangerous. Anything that promotes mineral imbalance/depletion like this seems like its not worth messing with
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom