Fatigue, brain fog, hair loss and scalp itch

Here's the best bloodwork I got:

DHT above range: 1.45 (range 0.25 - 1.00)
total T: 3,70 (range 1.50 - 5.60)
free T: 20 (range 9 - 43)
E2: 24 (range 10 - 45)
LH: 1,70 (range 1.80 - 8.20)
3 alpha-diol G: 5,7 (range 3.5 - 22)
delta 4-Androstendione: 2,6 (range 0.5 - 3.0)
Prolactine: 6.30 (range 2.6 - 18)
Progesterone: 0.64 ( range < 0.2)
vitamin d, 1,25 dihydroxy calciferol: 35,5 (range 18-78)
vitamin d, 25OH: 8 (range 30-100)
intact PTH: 25 (range 11 - 67)

I got some T4, TSH bloodworks, FT4 is on range, but a bit on the lower end, FT3 was good (only tested once), TSH is always 4-6 (im taking 75mcg of Eutirox as prescribed by my doctor)

As you can see my DHT was above range. This could be a cause of the scalp itch, given the fact how lots of people fix their scalp itch (and hairloss) with finasteride and given the fact I find relief when I apply the foam (im using topical fin and minox). The minoxidil probably also helps at improving blood flow in the scalp. The problem, it doesn't last enough, and my hair is still falling as well. Im still continuing the process since it makes my scalp relaxed for a couple of hours.
Oral fin is out of the question, at least for now... I hope I don't reach a desperation point where I start to take it. Unfortunately the best results i've ever seen have been with oral fin + minoxidil, and it also fixed the scalp itch problem. The dreaded MPB itch.

The rest of the stuff seem to be ok. Progesterone is a bit above range, LH a bit below... the rest seem ok, in general not worth mentally masturbating about due hormones fluctuating a lot. My active vitamin D is enough (35,5), the fact my 25OH is low seems irrelevant, I seem to be getting enough vitamin D from my diet (given I barely go out at sunlight since im too tired to wake up early) as seen on my 1,25 value. I also remember testing for B12 and it was ok, so was potasium and calcium (calcium was barely above range). I've got a mineral hair test done and the bars where all messy.. im going to buy a mineral suplement.
I dont know if I should buy a vitamin supplement, it seems kinda dumb without any labs tho.

Something I've noticed is the worst hours are morning hours, specially after breakfast where I start getting chills and sleepy, then at night I feel a bit better, the late it gets the more fresh I feel at all levels.
Im not overweight, im very lean and on my mid 20's.

Please drop some help as im lost. The doctors aren't doing anything beyond the usual stuff (test for basic thyroid values and increase T4 every couple of months).

IWishIWasRich

If your drs are increasing thyroid supp every couple of mths, that is something important. Is Eutirox T4 only or combination T3 + T4? Some young men T4 can work for, but Peat says most people do better with T3:T4 between 1:4 and 1:2.

What have you tried so far to improve general metabolism? This may be key to resolving the specific issues you mention.

If you are trying to figure out your vitamin and mineral needs, I would recommend using something like cronometer [dot] com if you don't have another way to assess your current diet to see if it is supplying your nutritional needs.
Compared with cronometer's default parameters, Peat would generally suggest less iron and PUFA (as little as you can practically manage and get your other needs met), 1200-2000 Calcium and more calcium than phosphorus. In my opinion, cronometer tends to underestimate calorie needs.
He generally suggests 80-100g protein when hypothyroid, and plenty of sugar ideally mostly from fruit and milk.
Are you very lean because you don't eat much?

Has your metabolism always been sluggish, or can you tell when it took a downward turn? Do you have any clues about what has caused the high TSH etc?

Vit D is not the only important thing you get from sunlight. The red light also restores the cytochrome oxidase enzyme, which is crucial to efficient oxidative metabolism (energy production) in cells. It runs down in the dark. I recommend getting out in the sun for a bit every morning as often as possible.

Get some Cyproheptadine and take it twice a day. This will help digestion and move things in the right direction. It will increase appetite you are certainly underweight for your height. You probably have high serotonin which is why you don't have much of an appetite. Also eat a raw carrot. Also u may want to experiment with aspirin if you feel like you have inflammation. The only supplements I think you may want to consider are ADEK and pregnenolone. Also salt and gelatin. Other than that focus on the diet but don't make urself crazy. Don't overdo the liquids and make sure ur not urinating too much. Also there's a supplement called nutri-pak thyroid glandular that u could use instead of the t4. T4 only could create problems converting to rt3.

The main thing for you I think is to make sure you are eating enough. I wouldn't take any thyroid hormones until you've taken cyproheptadine for a month and you've gained atleast 20 lbs. it will only create more problems. Also avoiding digestive irritants like gums carageenan, etc. is important

You are the type of hypothtroid case that compensates with high stress hormones so you stay very thin but you have anxiety and racing thoughts. Cypro will supress the stress hormones and chill you out. Your appetite will increase and you will be able to put on the weight.

Just saw your posts on the other thread.
Looks like you are undereating - (1800 cals, very thin, mid twenties), which could be a significant contributor to your low thyroid function, running on stress hormones through the night then falling asleep after breakfast, fatigue, brain fog, hair loss, etc. My guess is you will probably need to eat consistently more than this if you want to improve. If you supplement thyroid hormones without eating enough, that can cause additional stress. You might have to push it a bit if your appetite isn't telling you to increase.

Do milk and OJ agree with you?
Could you try adding more milk - eg an extra litre, and a litre of OJ (and reducing any plain water etc you are drinking to accomodate the extra liquid)? This would get yourself some more good sugars, protein, minerals, vitamins. If it makes you too cold or makes you pee clear to drink that much, then drink less and add more solid food. Have you had a look at the sticky threads at the top of the Diet subforum?

tara said:

IWishIWasRich

If your drs are increasing thyroid supp every couple of mths, that is something important. Is Eutirox T4 only or combination T3 + T4? Some young men T4 can work for, but Peat says most people do better with T3:T4 between 1:4 and 1:2.

What have you tried so far to improve general metabolism? This may be key to resolving the specific issues you mention.

If you are trying to figure out your vitamin and mineral needs, I would recommend using something like cronometer [dot] com if you don't have another way to assess your current diet to see if it is supplying your nutritional needs.
Compared with cronometer's default parameters, Peat would generally suggest less iron and PUFA (as little as you can practically manage and get your other needs met), 1200-2000 Calcium and more calcium than phosphorus. In my opinion, cronometer tends to underestimate calorie needs.
He generally suggests 80-100g protein when hypothyroid, and plenty of sugar ideally mostly from fruit and milk.
Are you very lean because you don't eat much?

Has your metabolism always been sluggish, or can you tell when it took a downward turn? Do you have any clues about what has caused the high TSH etc?

Vit D is not the only important thing you get from sunlight. The red light also restores the cytochrome oxidase enzyme, which is crucial to efficient oxidative metabolism (energy production) in cells. It runs down in the dark. I recommend getting out in the sun for a bit every morning as often as possible.

Click to expand...

Hi, yes the Eutirox is only T4, i think its what its prescribed in all Europe.
I've read T3 can be a pain in the **** to control because its very unstable. I've seen people recommending T3+T4 before but for some reason, its illegal for doctors to prescribe it..?? i dont really never understood why.

As far as increasing my metabolism, I started talking daily, 40 to 1 hour daily, on my treadmill because im too lazy to walk outside (lazy as in feeling sluggish). This definitely is an improvement vs sitting my **** all day.
I used to go to the gym a year ago, but stopped, and the more you stop, the bigger deal it is going back, it keeps increasingly difficult everyday I dont go. Im considering forcing myself for a month, going out and to the gym, and see what happens, and also increasing calories. Im definitely going to increase milk amount, it's the easier way to get more kcals in, i'll change glasses for bowls, two bowls daily, and see what happens.
I get a milkshake with banana, i removed the cinnamon because I think my stomatch doesnt like it much. Maybe i'll try with a higher grade cinnamon from iherb in the future, from now i'll add a teaspoon of sugar, if I dont like the taste i'll leave it as is. I also get in the breakfast, toasted bread with EVOO and jam (iberic jam, none of the cheap **** supermarket pink looking thing). Then I also get a glass of OJ. Im not sure if I could get more than a glass. I squeeze the oranges myself, so I would need double the oranges to get a glass x2, 6 to 8 oranges. That's a lot of squeezing. Is there any commercial OJ that's worth it?
But basically, my biggest concern with increasing OJ consumption beyond a glass is consuming too much acid.
I do not eat PUFAs, as long as I know.
My third meal at around 6:30 PM is more milk, with a powder that has cocoa, some mg, calcium, phosphor, iron, protein, some saturated fats, carbs.. whatever, it's basically it to give a better taste to the milk. Then I have some cereals, usually corn flakes from kellogs, got some more carbs with toasted sandwich with some nutella.
At night after dinner, I have an apple or a yogurt.
The main 2 meals are cooked, so it's pretty random as I dont control them, but it's usually decent food.
As for calcium, I once had a bloodwork and it was at the higher end, almost above normal. I plan on adding some k2 on my breakfast OJ and at night again with some drink, just in case to avoid any calficicating tissues.

thanks for input

lookingforanswers said:

Get some Cyproheptadine and take it twice a day. This will help digestion and move things in the right direction. It will increase appetite you are certainly underweight for your height. You probably have high serotonin which is why you don't have much of an appetite. Also eat a raw carrot. Also u may want to experiment with aspirin if you feel like you have inflammation. The only supplements I think you may want to consider are ADEK and pregnenolone. Also salt and gelatin. Other than that focus on the diet but don't make urself crazy. Don't overdo the liquids and make sure ur not urinating too much. Also there's a supplement called nutri-pak thyroid glandular that u could use instead of the t4. T4 only could create problems converting to rt3.

The main thing for you I think is to make sure you are eating enough. I wouldn't take any thyroid hormones until you've taken cyproheptadine for a month and you've gained atleast 20 lbs. it will only create more problems. Also avoiding digestive irritants like gums carageenan, etc. is important

You are the type of hypothtroid case that compensates with high stress hormones so you stay very thin but you have anxiety and racing thoughts. Cypro will supress the stress hormones and chill you out. Your appetite will increase and you will be able to put on the weight.

Click to expand...

In Europe they give you Cetirizine. I've read before how Cypro (Periactin?) and the other one (Benadryl) are better than Cetirizne. Something I don't get just like T3 issue.. if it's better, why do they give you Cetirizine? it's a 2nd gen anti histaminic, so shouldn't it be better?

Also, why Cypro and not Benadryl? and can you take anti histaminics for life, or can it become a problem?
I tried once going on 10mg of Cetirizine at night for like 2 months, didn't notice anything remarkable.

As for stopping the T4... my doctors are controling it... I dont think I cant stop. If I stop and my TSH goes back to 9 (9 is what I got the first time they ever tested me) what im going to say?
There's something definitely wrong with my thyroid and it seems I need external thyroid.. unless they told me exactly what is wrong with the thyroid, but they never tell you ***t, they just give you the pills, so I can't do much more than that. If I could I would search a doctor for myself to treat my case with more detail but it's too expensive. I definitely need to test for rt3 and get a full thyroid panel sometime, just to discard there is a rt3 problem. My problem with tests tho, is... aren't these hormones too damn random? like they fluctuate a lot throught the day.. so can't it be misguiding?

About gums carageenan.. I dont know, aren't those usually on ice creams? I never eat icecreams because the ones at the store are crap. I wish I could find a place with legit icecreams without too many aditives.

Hi,
If I've understood Peat correctly, high blood calcium levels may be an indicator of high prolactin and higher risk of calcification of soft tissue. This can occur when calcium intake is lower than optimal. If this is what's happening, Peat seems to suggest eating more calcium to lower prolactin and help get the calcium into the bones where it belongs, rather than into soft tissue where it causes trouble.

Pushing yourself too hard with exercise can have the effect of lowering base metabolism. Some regular movement is important, but that doesn't mean you should regularly exhaust yourself during recovery. From what I've read here, weights can be useful for building muscle, but don't push to failure, rest between sets, keep your overall session reasonable short, and make sure you supply some sugar and protein for recovery afterwards.

Unless your treadmill is by a big window in full sunlight, or you live in extremely unpleasant/heavily polluted/ dangerous neighbourhood, getting out side to walk is likely to do you much more good than doing it indoors on a treadmill, because getting daylight on your skin has a lot of value in itself.

The older antihistamines often make people drowsy, and the next generation ones don't so much. This is perceived as a benefit by many people. Peat has said the newer ones are not as safe.

As to the politics of drug availability, there may be many reasons, but bear in mind that there is not much profit to be made from old medicines that are no longer protected by patents. Pharmaceutical companies make a lot of profits out of expensive patented medicines, which means that for them there is an interest in persuading drs etc to prescribe their new drugs not the old ones. Similarly, they cannot patent natural dessicated thyroid supplements, and they don't benefit from people's chronic ill health being resolved by an old unpatented remedy. If you are interested in following this line, you can explore further about the many mechanisms by which pharmaceutical companies have influence.

Where I am, carrageenan or other gums are in all the commercial icecream, cream cheese, cottage cheese, sour cream, many of the yogurts, flavoured milk etc.

If you don't want to just rely on lab tests, you can get significant information by tracking your own body temperature and pulse (esp at waking before rising, and an hour or so after breakfast).

I am not in Europe, so brands will not be the same. I cannot get fresh ripe oranges year round. I drink a bout a litre a day of commercial orange juice (and apple juice). I found a brand that seems to be OK for me as long as I add a tsp of baking soda per litre. Fresh sweet ripe orange juice is not very acidic. Commercial juice is probably better than nothing, but acidity from the unripe oranges it is often made from can be an issue for some of us.

If you are eating nutella, bread and evoo, eggs, etc, you are eating some PUFA. You can use cronometer to assesss how much. Peat has suggested that getting it as low as pratically possible is good, and under 4g PUFA/day is protective. If you are not preparing your own meals, do you know that they are not prepared with seed oils?
Some people have trouble with wheat, and Peat does not consider it useful food for most people. On the other hand, there are a number of people here who eat some bread and say they do OK with it, eg home-made white flour sourdough. If you are looking for other changes you can try to see if you get improvements, you can try replacing bread and wheat with at least as many calories worth of fruit etc for a week or two to see if it make s a difference.
There is at least one thread here suggesting Ceylon cinnamon over other spice labelled cinnamon (which I think is often cassia). I got some and it tastes good to , but I can't tell if it makes any difference tcompared with what I ate before.

I suggest you read Peat's articles on Thyroid to start with, and then go on to other articles. They take a bit of reading to be able to understand them, but I find I get more out of them on 2nd and 3rd readings, and I put more of the picture together.

Hi, i haven't gone to the gym in a year, like I said before as I started not going it became a chore to even think about picking the train for the way to the gym, the more i procastinate the worse it gets, and now i have a year record of not going and im still paying. I swear I need to go before this month ends.. it's going to be embarrassing showing up again after a year when they see i've been paying lol.

As for cypro, why cypro and not benadryl? it was also recommended by peat.
Also, can antihistamines be used for life, or are they only a temporary solution?
As for calcium, wouldn't supplementing with k2 be a solid solution? the mineral supplement im buying contains extra calcium anyway (its the one by thorne as well).

About replacing bread with something else, i dont know, i like bread and use it all the time, it would be pretty depressing. I like toasted bread with a fried egg and whatnot, also with the jam, tastes great.

Re: Fatigue, brain fog, hair loss and scalp itc

Cypro works a lot better for me than Benadryl, I don't know why. And Ray believes it should be taken for a short while, but that depends on your state of health ovivously. Only you will know. I like the older medications that have stood the test of time (over 50 years). When these first generation drugs are still used despite the fact that their patents are long expired and they are not profitable, it tells you they are not being prescribed for the wrong reasons. You want to make your digestion as smooth as possible. If you are inflamed you are creating more work from your body. Don't force yourself to work out if you are not ready. You need to have the energy to handle it. And that comes from increasing calories big time.

Re: Fatigue, brain fog, hair loss and scalp itc

JRMoney15 said:

Cypro works a lot better for me than Benadryl, I don't know why. And Ray believes it should be taken for a short while, but that depends on your state of health ovivously. Only you will know. I like the older medications that have stood the test of time (over 50 years). When these first generation drugs are still used despite the fact that their patents are long expired and they are not profitable, it tells you they are not being prescribed for the wrong reasons. You want to make your digestion as smooth as possible. If you are inflamed you are creating more work from your body. Don't force yourself to work out if you are not ready. You need to have the energy to handle it. And that comes from increasing calories big time.

Click to expand...

What should one look forward to using cypro/benadryl and when do you suspend it's usage them?

About not working out.. im feeling like ***t by not working out as well I think, my body feels like it wants to stimualte it's muscles and grow, I have being skinny, I want to put on at least 10 KG at my current bodyfat which is low enough.
And yes i'll be eating at least 1000 more calories so I would be theoretically at around 400-500 above maintainance (thats 2800-2900 kcals, 1000 more than what I counted im eating now). For startes i will be consuming more milk, it's the fastest way I can think off, i'll also increase the quantity of whatever im eating already.
Im not really concerned about EVOO and some olives. Im willing to hear what you have to offer so I can replace the nutella with something else, and the corn flakes kellogs I asume aren't ideal as well... but for now I can't think of something else for my 6 pm snack to go with my milk. Even tho im still not enterily convinced about the arguments of why I should replace them. For sure there is better food than that out there, but im not rich for starters.

Please, anyone:

1) For how long can I take cypro and it can't be taken for a lifetime, what can I do? Let's say it helps, but once I stop the symptons come back. What then?

2) Do you think cypro will help with scalp itch?

3) Its best liquid or oral form?

Something to note is I have a mix of stress, anxiety and fatigue. I feel brain fogged, and tired, and at the same damn time I feel racing, like I want to move my legs, and punch someone because of the symptons, specially the damn scalp itch. I cant focus while im trying to do some excel stuff ffs.

tara said:

Just saw your posts on the other thread.
Looks like you are undereating - (1800 cals, very thin, mid twenties), which could be a significant contributor to your low thyroid function, running on stress hormones through the night then falling asleep after breakfast, fatigue, brain fog, hair loss, etc. My guess is you will probably need to eat consistently more than this if you want to improve. If you supplement thyroid hormones without eating enough, that can cause additional stress. You might have to push it a bit if your appetite isn't telling you to increase.

Click to expand...

I want to emphasize what Tara said here. You and I are not the only ones under eating and losing hair. It's a story I've heard over and over again around these parts.

Maybe the cypro also helps me with increasing apetite? but then again, i ask the former questions.

I also want to ask what can be done about air quality.

The air in my bedroom feels dead compared to the air in my living room where I can see outdoors. My bedroom got indoors window that leads to a place of the building where people do laundry and ***t, put their clothes to dry etc. It sucks but I cant change that.

What can I do to improve air quality and to reduce EMF?

Air quality and emfs are the least of your problems. Just focus on using cypro to improve digestion and appetite so you put on some weight
How long should you take it?

Until your symptoms are resolved. That could be 3 months or it could be 6. Only you know. Symptoms won't come back as long as you keep eating daily Raw carrot and eat enough of the right foods. Also thyroid may help

JRMoney15 said:

Air quality and emfs are the least of your problems. Just focus on using cypro to improve digestion and appetite so you put on some weight
How long should you take it?

Until your symptoms are resolved. That could be 3 months or it could be 6. Only you know. Symptoms won't come back as long as you keep eating daily Raw carrot and eat enough of the right foods. Also thyroid may help

Click to expand...

But how do I supplement my thyroid accordingly? and whats up with the daily carrot? i saw no one else recommending that. Why a daily raw carrot??

And doesn't cypro do things that you couldn't solve otherwise? some people need anti histamines for life no matter what, because they allergy type symptons never ceased any other way. There are tons of people out there being prescribed cetirizine for years doing just fine, because if they try to quit their anti histamine the sysmptons came back.

IWishIWasRich said:

But how do I supplement my thyroid accordingly? and whats up with the daily carrot? i saw no one else recommending that. Why a daily raw carrot??

Click to expand...

The raw carrot contains fibre that can soak up and carry out some of the endotoxin and estrogen from the gut, so that less is absorbed into the body. This can reduce the burden on the liver and other systems, and sometimes can make a difference in improving hormone balance.

tara said:

IWishIWasRich said:

But how do I supplement my thyroid accordingly? and whats up with the daily carrot? i saw no one else recommending that. Why a daily raw carrot??

Click to expand...

The raw carrot contains fibre that can soak up and carry out some of the endotoxin and estrogen from the gut, so that less is absorbed into the body. This can reduce the burden on the liver and other systems, and sometimes can make a difference in improving hormone balance.

Click to expand...

Nice, I didnt know raw carrow was that useful. Not sure if im going to be able to eat that tho.

Btw, I have to point out the fact im at my best at around 3 am... at the morning its terrible, then it gets better as the day goes on, at about 6pm to 9pm i start feeling half decent, then after dinner i feel sleepy and sluggish, then after about 11pm-12pm i start waking up, and here i am at 3:30am feeling at my best for the entire day (still not ok, but better than the rest of the day...)

On tyroid, how much should I wait to take my meds? i take the t4 at 1:15am where I should go to sleep inmediately after but I dont, I finish dinner at about 22:30pm. Is that enough time?
I have used the t4 at the morning in the past but the result was the same... and it was a pain in the **** waking up 1 hour earlier to take the pill.

JRMoney was probably right about air quality being among the least of your concerns. But anyway I found something really cool that I want to share with you. I was looking up videos about feng shui (go figure) and I found out about these plants that absorb certain chemicals out of the air, such as formaldehyde and benzene. One in particular is pretty low maintenance and it looks pretty nice. It's called a Peace Lily. It doesn't need much light, and you water it once a week.

There was a study done by NASA which I recommend checking out. The Peace Lily was one of two plants that removed all five of the chemicals from the air that they looked at.

The window in my bedroom leads to another room. Having a plant in the room does improve the energy in the room, though it doesn't beat being able to open a window and get some fresh air in the room.

What have you tried to see if you can get your daily rhythm back in line with daylight?
Have you tried:
As soon as possible after waking in the morning: breakfast including protein and carbs, direct sunshine.
Lunch time: including at least 30 g protein, carbs, before 2:00pm
Dinner before sundown if poss: carbs, some fat, just a little protein
Snacks as required and supper: eg fruit/juice/milk/jelly/ ...
Go to bed by 10:00pm (or earlier if tired) and turn out lights. Try it a few times even if you don't feel sleepy, and see if it is possible to get to sleep then.

I'm not sure that this is what would work for you, but it seems you've got out of sync, and what you are doing now is not helping that. So you might have to change the pattern deliberately, rather than hope it will spontaneously change.

tara said:

What have you tried to see if you can get your daily rhythm back in line with daylight?
Have you tried:
As soon as possible after waking in the morning: breakfast including protein and carbs, direct sunshine.
Lunch time: including at least 30 g protein, carbs, before 2:00pm
Dinner before sundown if poss: carbs, some fat, just a little protein
Snacks as required and supper: eg fruit/juice/milk/jelly/ ...
Go to bed by 10:00pm (or earlier if tired) and turn out lights. Try it a few times even if you don't feel sleepy, and see if it is possible to get to sleep then.

I'm not sure that this is what would work for you, but it seems you've got out of sync, and what you are doing now is not helping that. So you might have to change the pattern deliberately, rather than hope it will spontaneously change.

Click to expand...

Yup, I wish I had the willpower to go to sleep earlier, but I dont. It's 5 AM here again, and im checking Youtube videos and forums, I procastinate even to go to bed.

I have tried forcing myself for a couple days, and the feeling of being on bed without falling asleep it's really annoying. I wish I felt sleepy, and not tired or fatigued, different things. I wish I could wake up in the morning feeling fresh and with a clean head and body, take my breakfast, and go out for a walk on the way to the gym.