Insomnia

DavidGardner

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Jul 1, 2015
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I've been working with the Ray Peat diet for a few weeks now, but have not been able to deal w/ a worsening case of insomnia.

It began when my normal waking time started creeping earlier and earlier into the morning, from 5:30 to 4, from 4 to 3, from 3 to 1:30, and now I awaken at 12 after going to bed at 9:30. When I awaken, I am hungry and want a full meal. After I have eaten, I crave coffee, which is where things get strange. Mind you, I have been a heavy coffee drinker for years and have a very high tolerance; but I will easily put away a whole pot before falling back asleep again at 4. After taking a nap, I will eat breakfast, have one or two more cups of coffee, and feel ready to start the day. On my lunch break, I take another 45 min. nap.

I can function like this, but I do not feel it is by any means ideal. During the day, I experience bouts of depression and irritability. I find it impossible to go back to sleep once I have awakened because I feel so wide awake and agitated. Also, the cravings for food and coffee at this time are very difficult to ignore. If I do not drink coffee, I feel very fatigued, but still cannot sleep. I have tried GABA, kava, melatonin, and Benadryl; but each one becomes ineffective after using a few times.

I have order phenylanine from Amazon, which will arrive on Friday. My plan is to try taking this to assuage my caffeine cravings and hopefully fall asleep again faster. I have had some difficulties with following the Ray Peat diet also, but that is almost another whole post....
 

jaywills

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Apr 26, 2014
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Hi David,

Previous insomniac here, but still trouble with sleep from time to time. It has dramatically improved. I too went through a period of 'coffee cravings' at night and a racing mind. One in which i would get excited at the thought of coffee the next morning. I no longer experience this. A few questions to further understand and quick advice:

1) Do you fast, or eat-low or low-fat? Whats your final meal of the day?
- Either low fat or low sugar caused great insomnia for me.
2) Do you eat starch?
- without starch i struggle to sleep regardless of how much fruit and sugar I consume. Potatoes are great here
3) What is your overall calorie consumption?
- Too Low and sleep will be an issue
4) What are you exercise and movement habits like?
- Too much intense exercise at night will cause insomnia.
5) Do you have blue light exposure after sunset i.e. TV, mobile phone usage?
- blue light will keep you up.
6) What is your access to natural light like
- as much as possible in the day would restore natural circadian rhythm.
7) What is your social life like?
- being down, feeling negative and not satisfied with your life can cause a mental state where racing thoughts occur at night

I believe all the above are crucial to curing insomnia. Diet alone will not fix.
 

jyb

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DavidGardner said:
I've been working with the Ray Peat diet for a few weeks now, but have not been able to deal w/ a worsening case of insomnia.

I developed chronic insomnia in my early 20's and had poor sleep since I was born. I then experimented with various drugs and diets. Nothing seemed to work for insomnia specifically. I then fixed it almost completely a year ago by increasing saturated fat intake significantly and paying more attention to what type and how much carbs I really needed. I find that my "requirement" for coffee is a function of fat / carb ratio. I found coffee to be more important when I was lower in fat to feel good. If like I was, you feel strangely hungry a couple hours before bedtime, or if you wake up stressed in the morning, I think that's a key indication that your diet is inadequate. You need to feel consistently satisfied to fall asleep well.
 

Stilgar

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May 16, 2013
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Taking thyroid in the morning, especially T3, or cynoplus, seems to reset my circadian rhythm. It seems to feel like you burn off extra energy in the morning, leaving you sleepy and tired by the evening. Without thyroid, I am desperate for coffee, almost always.

Do you take thyroid?
 

jyb

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You don't seem to have experimented with amino acids either. Especially glycine for sleep. Although I don't think it is as important as the general diet, I thinks supplements of amino acids like glycine and lysine should take priority over stuff like melatonin like you did. As a bandaid, drugs like Cyproheptadine can knock you off initially so you'll sleep a lot, but I don't see it as good as other measures for good sleep and not very consistent for that purpose anyway.
 

paper_clips43

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Nov 13, 2013
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How much do you stand throughout the day?

I found my insomnia related to sitting too much. And it was the kind of insomnia that caused early awakenings. Since I work from home and on the computer I made a standing desk and now I try to stand 8 hours of the day. It was tough at first but I now I actually feel a lot healthier standing. I also think it improved the health of my veins.

There was a lot of great suggestions already and I am sure if you experiment you can find what works for you.

Also increasing saturated fat helped my sleep as well.
 
OP
D

DavidGardner

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Jul 1, 2015
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Thank you all for the responses. I'll try to answer some questions.

In response to Jay Willls:
1. I have been fasting 20-24 hours, once a week; but I will probably stop this because I need to eat so much more afterwards. I'm now getting about 40-45% of my calories from carbs (both starch and sugar) and 30-35% from fat, the rest from protein. My final meal of the day usually includes muscle meat and gelatin, starches, and veggies. I tried cutting back on the veggies and replacing starches with fruit, but could not feel satiated. This only seems to apply to dinner. Otherwise, I'm eating more dairy, fruit, and sugar.
2. So yes, at dinner, starch. I do like potatoes and will try to eat more of them.
3. Calorie consumption was very low for me in the previous week (1800-2000). I generally need around 3000 calories per day to maintain my weight. My calorie restriction was intentional, though, as I was trying to lose the weight that I had initially gained from my insomniac episodes. This week I plan on eating at least 3200 calories a day, maybe more.
4. I am very physically active. I walk 6-10 miles per day because of my job and also do some lifting. After work, I lift weights at the gym. Except on my weekends, I rarely sit until after dinner.
5. Blue light exposure would be limited to evenings, which I know is not ideal; but I have no other time to use the computer.
6. I am outside all day every day.
7. Social life could be better, but I have friends amongst my co-workers, and I live with my parents.

I'm trying to eat more saturated fat and less PUFAs. My initial problems with this diet I think were caused by not enough saturated fat. I do notice, however, that anytime I eat pork or poultry, I feel a need to supplement fish oils. If I eat omega-6 without omega-3, I become depressed and unmotivated. Otherwise, I am trying to get more of my fat from cream. I put heavy cream in my coffee and also eat cheese and ice cream. This seems to help in the way I feel, and also reduces the perceived need for fish oils.

Jyb, I've tried many amino acids, but not glycine or lysine. L-glutamine is my favorite, though I usually take in the morning for anxiety and to help with glycogen storage. Would glycine be redundant if I'm already taking gelatin?
 

jyb

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DavidGardner said:
Jyb, I've tried many amino acids, but not glycine or lysine. L-glutamine is my favorite, though I usually take in the morning for anxiety and to help with glycogen storage. Would glycine be redundant if I'm already taking gelatin?

Yes, glycine would be redundant if you get a few grams of it from gelatin.
 

tara

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I would wake up early (in the middle of the night) if I under ate too. Resuming eating seems like the obvious first thing to try. I'm finding I like Peat's advice to go easy on protein in the evening, and more for morning/lunch. Coffee after supper can help me sleep (but I only ever drink a very little).
 

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