The Masculinizing Effects Of Estrogen

haidut

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Ray has written about the incorrect belief that estrogen is a "female" hormone and how some of the brain structures in male fetuses are mainly shaped by estrogen. Here is a study examining the effect of oral contraceptives on brain structure and behavior. It covers several of Peat's points on estrogen, including the fact that women on estrogen pills have altered preference for mates and act more or less...like men.

50 years of hormonal contraception—time to find out, what it does to our brain

"... In the presence of high levels of progesterone, testosterone-actions are impaired, because progesterone has a high affinity for the enzyme 5α-reductase, which is responsible for the conversion of testosterone into the physiologically more active dihydrotestosterone (Wright et al., 1983). If progesterone levels are reduced, more testosterone can be converted to dihydrotestosterone. Thus, any hormonal contraceptives, irrespective of the progestin component, may facilitate testosterone actions on the brain, thereby masculinizing brain structure, function and behavior. Alternatively, it has been argued that some masculinizing effects are promoted by estrogen receptors after testosterone has been locally converted to estrogen via the enzyme aromatase (Roselli, 2007). Consequently, estrogenic actions of ethinylestradiol may contribute to possible masculinizing effects of hormonal contraceptives on the brain."

"...Furthermore, OC users perform like men in an emotional memory paradigm, designed by Cahill and coworkers (Nielsen et al., 2011, 2013) and in a Navon paradigm (Pletzer et al., 2014b), both studies conducted on US samples. Brain functional differences between OC users and non-users have also been reported during the resting state (Petersen et al., 2014), during face processing (Mareckova et al., 2012) and during reward processing (Bonenberger et al., 2013). "

"...Possible physiological mechanisms underlying both positive and negative mood swings in oral contraceptive users are manifold and at the moment speculative. Elevated levels of estradiol have anti-depressive effects (Moses-Kolko, 2009; Estrada-Camarena, 2010), presumably due to its serotonin (5-HT) enhancing property (e.g., Bethea et al., 2002)."

"...Progesterone, however, may promote positive mood changes at low concentrations and negative mood changes at high concentrations due to biphasic effects on GABAergic neurons (Andréen et al., 2009). Again, synthetic progestins as contained in OCs simultaneously act as progesterone receptor agonist and reduce the level of endogenous progesterone (Wright et al., 1983; Sahlberg et al., 1987). In a meta-analysis Oinonen and Mazmanian (2002) suggest that the progesterone/estrogen ratio correlates to the direction of emotional changes."


Hormonal contraceptives masculinize brain activation patterns in the absence of behavioral changes in two numerical tasks. - PubMed - NCBI

"...Our findings suggest that OC-users resemble follicular women in their behavioral performance, but show male-like brain activation patterns during both tasks. Analysis of brain-behavior relationships suggests that OC-users differ from naturally cycling women in the way they recruit their neural resources to deal with challenges of the tasks. We conclude that OCs, which are used by 100 million women worldwide, may have profound effects on cognition that have not been recognized so far."
 
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jyb

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I have a question for you, it's somewhat related to poor health being masculinizing. On Peatarian, marital_weeping made a very interesting hypothesis (confirmed by Peat I believe, but I didn't see the actual exchange), that nutrient deficiency can cause hairs growth - hairs growing in new areas well after teen years.

I'm not sure which nutrient deficiency could cause this, but I willing to believe it's related to poor health. In my own experience I've noticed that when hairs grow in new areas, it's not dense and a bit random.
 

nograde

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Female anorexia sufferers often develop abnormal hairgrowth on arms and face (beard), but these are severely malnourished and often on the verge of dying. I wonder what their hormonal profile looks like. One would suspect a high stress state / high estrogen, but since they are so malnourished their ability to synthesize hormones is probably impaired, so I would speculate low absolute levels across the board with high relative values for estrogen.
 
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Yes, the chronic need for cortisol screws up the feedback system and causes a rise in androgens downstream.
 

nograde

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Such_Saturation said:
Yes, the chronic need for cortisol screws up the feedback system and causes a rise in androgens downstream.

Isn't cortisol and testosterone inversely related?
 
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jyb

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Such_Saturation said:
Yes, the chronic need for cortisol screws up the feedback system and causes a rise in androgens downstream.

What kind of effects would you expect to observe in someone chronically high in cortisol? In terms of character or physical traits. I'm thinking: underweight, fragile skin, lightheadedness quickly without food, insomnia (problem falling asleep), inability to relax, anxiety without any psychological reason, quiet but worried.
 

aguilaroja

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jyb said:
What kind of effects...in someone chronically high in cortisol? In terms of character or physical traits. I'm thinking: underweight, fragile skin, lightheadedness quickly without food, insomnia (problem falling asleep), inability to relax, anxiety without any psychological reason, quiet but worried.

For an idea about the signs of chronic issues, IMNHO it is helpful to view them as less drastic versions of the extreme states.

Like the factors of rejuvenation, there is a lot of overlap in the factors of decline. High estrogen, cortisol, adrenaline, histamine, serotonin, and all intermingle influences. Again IMNHO none of the lab testing (serum, saliva, urine, red cell) is definitive and are useful only in the extreme states. I am only giving an impression based on looking a a number of factors.

The high cortisol state in low metabolism is closer to the medical textbook/dogma stereotype of hypothyroidism: overweight, sluggish, puffy with water retention. (Again, with apologies IMNHE, the texture feels more watery than the slightly denser water retention of the high estrogen state. The more primary low thyroid state can be puffy, but is tissue texture is often more mucinous.) High cortisol states, a bit like the pharmaceutical "steroid euphoria" have a kind of irritability with tones of insistence and/or grandiosity. Skin fragility and easy bruising (another overlap with some estrogen states) can be part of the picture.

Reports of underweight, anxiety/worry/high-strung-ness, light-headness/grouchiness from hunger ("hypoglycemia"), difficulty falling asleep are more suggestive of high adrenalin issues. (Insomnia due to metabolic lag has many variations, and can certainly be seen in high cortisol states.) Cold extremities/nose/ears & being "chilled to the bone" in winter are common. People with high adrenaline compensation are often wiry in build. They tend to sweat less in hot weather. Digestive absorption tends to be less good, even if there is no major problem with digestion and elimination. They may eat a lot and not gain much weight, even though not super-active.

These are observations based on study of people and research, speculating about metabolic compensations based on Dr. Peat's ideas, but not discussed extensively with Dr. Peat nor confirmed by him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing's_disease
 

kiran

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jyb said:
Such_Saturation said:
Yes, the chronic need for cortisol screws up the feedback system and causes a rise in androgens downstream.

What kind of effects would you expect to observe in someone chronically high in cortisol? In terms of character or physical traits. I'm thinking: underweight, fragile skin, lightheadedness quickly without food, insomnia (problem falling asleep), inability to relax, anxiety without any psychological reason, quiet but worried.

Chronic high cortisol predisposes one to belly fat too.
 

SaltGirl

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kiran said:
jyb said:
Such_Saturation said:
Yes, the chronic need for cortisol screws up the feedback system and causes a rise in androgens downstream.

What kind of effects would you expect to observe in someone chronically high in cortisol? In terms of character or physical traits. I'm thinking: underweight, fragile skin, lightheadedness quickly without food, insomnia (problem falling asleep), inability to relax, anxiety without any psychological reason, quiet but worried.

Chronic high cortisol predisposes one to belly fat too.

I'd just google Cushing's to see the end game of cortisol production.
 
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gummybear said:
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/66061-does-sally-fallon-have-cushing-syndrome/

Yeah, that website ranks with Reddit as far as reductionist/atheist covens go. Actually they do have a religion: fish oil and amphetamines.
 

Jennifer

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nograde said:
Female anorexia sufferers often develop abnormal hairgrowth on arms and face (beard), but these are severely malnourished and often on the verge of dying. I wonder what their hormonal profile looks like. One would suspect a high stress state / high estrogen, but since they are so malnourished their ability to synthesize hormones is probably impaired, so I would speculate low absolute levels across the board with high relative values for estrogen.

Well, I wasn't anorexic in the sense that I never starved myself of calories, but at a previous weight of 70 pounds, I definitely fell into the anorexic category so we could go by my bloodwork as a clue. My blood tests revealed I had hardly any hormones to speak of, including estrogen and as one would expect, extremely low cholesterol and a major protein deficiency.

As for the hair, I lost a good 3/4 of the hair on my head and the rest of my body hair, right down to my eyelashes, stopped growing. Even my wisdom teeth, which were just starting to come out (I was around 26 at the time) stopped growing out. I think at that point, my body had run out of reserves since it had eaten up most of my fat, muscle and I'd say a ridiculous amount of bone given that half my spine crumbled under me and DEXA scans showed an osteoporosis score of more than double that of an average 85+ year old osteoporotic woman.

aguilaroja said:
Reports of underweight, anxiety/worry/high-strung-ness, light-headness/grouchiness from hunger ("hypoglycemia"), difficulty falling asleep are more suggestive of high adrenalin issues. (Insomnia due to metabolic lag has many variations, and can certainly be seen in high cortisol states.) Cold extremities/nose/ears & being "chilled to the bone" in winter are common. People with high adrenaline compensation are often wiry in build. They tend to sweat less in hot weather. Digestive absorption tends to be less good, even if there is no major problem with digestion and elimination. They may eat a lot and not gain much weight, even though not super-active.

The doctors were never able to figure out why I deteriorated to 70 pounds despite consuming a good 3000 calories a day and this quote now makes me wonder if high adrenaline was a major contributing factor.

I had done a lot of hiking on the weekends, but would binge on a ridiculous amount of calories afterwards so I know it wasn't a lack of food that did me in. I stopped hiking at least a year prior to fracturing my spine and wasn't doing any other form of exercising, yet I couldn't get my weight up. I was pretty high strung and anxious at that time and quite fidgety. I even noticed that by the end of my hiking stint, I was literally running up mountains because I had a crazy amount of energy I couldn't seem to wear off. I also had the worst case of insomnia where I was lucky if I slept 2 hours a night, yet despite that, I never felt tired.

I know doing fruitarianism didn't help matters, but even when I started consuming a crazy amount of raw whole milk and eggs, along with some meat, I still wasn't able to get my weight past 95 pounds and I'm 5'4" in height.
 
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What were your thyroid hormones like?
 

jyb

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Jennifer said:
The doctors were never able to figure out why I deteriorated to 70 pounds despite consuming a good 3000 calories a day and this quote now makes me wonder if high adrenaline was a major contributing factor.

I had/have some of your symptoms, maybe it's indeed to chronically high adrenalin. I'd feel energized yet relaxed after sport (endorphin release?), even if it was unhealthy exercise (eg., on empty stomach). However, I would feel sluggish after insomnia. I didn't lose hair, but when it got bad I was young, early twenties, so I think I was using up my birth resources.
 

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In the book Catching Fire How Cooking Made us Human the author goes into detail about how people on a raw foods diet do not fare as well as people on a diet with a majority of cooked foods. Women particularly lose fertility when eating raw compared to women eating mostly cooked foods even when the calories are the same. It seems we might be the only animals on the planet adapted to eat predominantly cooked foods. It's an interesting read and would explain why people eating mostly raw seem to develop problems. Cooking does seem to make many foods easier to digest hence our large brains and small gut compared to other animals. I don't know if he is totally correct but he makes some interesting points.
 

Jennifer

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Such_Saturation said:
What were your thyroid hormones like?

I had been seeing a naturopath and had 5 ER visits more than a year prior to fracturing my spine and a thyroid panel had only been done a year after I was at my worst so this is as accurate as I can get numbers wise. At that point, in 2010, I had already gained 15 pounds from my lowest of 70 pounds. Below were my stats at that time.

Weight: 85 pounds
O2 Sat: 100%
Temp: 98 degrees F oral
Pulse: 92
BP sitting: 118/82

TSH: .95
Free T4: 1.14 ng/dL Ref. range: .76-1.46
Total T4: 12.5 ug/dL Ref. range: 4.8-13.9
T3 levels were never checked.

jyb said:
I had/have some of your symptoms, maybe it's indeed to chronically high adrenalin. I'd feel energized yet relaxed after sport (endorphin release?), even if it was unhealthy exercise (eg., on empty stomach). However, I would feel sluggish after insomnia. I didn't lose hair, but when it got bad I was young, early twenties, so I think I was using up my birth resources.

Yeah, I was in my early twenties when I noticed weight dropping off and I thought it was due to hiking, but my brother who was my hiking partner was not losing weight. In fact, no one I hiked with regularly, lost weight. I always ate well on our hikes and binged afterwards so it definitely wasn't a calorie issue.

Blossom said:
In the book Catching Fire How Cooking Made us Human the author goes into detail about how people on a raw foods diet do not fare as well as people on a diet with a majority of cooked foods. Women particularly lose fertility when eating raw compared to women eating mostly cooked foods even when the calories are the same. It seems we might be the only animals on the planet adapted to eat predominantly cooked foods. It's an interesting read and would explain why people eating mostly raw seem to develop problems. Cooking does seem to make many foods easier to digest hence our large brains and small gut compared to other animals. I don't know if he is totally correct but he makes some interesting points.

Yeah, I've thought a lot about what was stated in Catching Firing and based on my experience, I would have to agree. Because despite eating mostly "easily digestible" fruit calories, I think all the fiber irritated my gut to the point of not being able to absorb nutrients efficiently and I wonder if those who drop weight on that diet, suffering from the same thing.

This is what Ray had to say about an all fruit diet:

"Fruits vary in their protein content and amino acid balance; if we had more knowledge about the amino acids in each fruit, a pure fruit diet might be ideal, but I think it would be risky without that information. Independent researchers have trouble buying the reagents needed for that kind of study, so I haven't done it." - Ray Peat

I believe even if we had more knowledge about the amino acids in fruit, unless we're juicing them, there's the issue of excessive amounts of fiber to get in the calories one needs to sustain on only fruit. Then there's the issue of trying to acquire an abundance of ripe fruit year round. Just that stress alone negated most benefits I received from the diet. At least that was my experience.
 

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I suppose if all I had to do in a day was sit in a lush tropical environment, pick ripe fruit off a tree and eat it then fruitarianism might work but since that's not going to happen anytime soon I'll just stick to my varied, mostly cooked, omnivorous diet. :lol:
 

Blossom

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I'm glad you found Peat's work Jennifer! It sounds like you have really been through a lot. In anorexia the blood work and vital signs can look deceiving normal because our body is eating itself. I know you technically didn't have anorexia but your body was probably still breaking down it's own tissue for fuel and slowing down all systems in an effort to conserve energy. The hard part, once normal eating resumes, is waiting for all the repairs to occur and our metabolism to come back. Sounds like your getting there though. One day you should tell your whole story if you feel comfortable doing that. I think it could potentially help others.
 

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