Hemorrhagic Fever therapies, practical applications?

LucyL

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Since Dr. Peat has written on clotting disorders, I have wondered for a while about his take on hemorrhagic fevers. While Ebola is the most well known, there is actually a long list of illnesses that can be hemorrhagic, including Dengue, hantavirus (also known in America as "four corners disease"), yellow fever, bird flu (H7N9 etc), Chikungunya, H1N1 (swine flu) can produce hemorrhagic pneumonia as well.

So I finally asked what he would see as an appropriate therapeutic approach to the hemorrhaging associated with these illnesses, and this was his response:

Ebola infection seems to involve a lack of interferon, and the amount of nitric oxide in the blood increases in proportion to the intensity of the symptoms. Reductive stress/inflammation that activates interleukin-1 and arachidonic acid metabolites can inhibit interferon, and at the same time increase the production of nitric oxide. Resistance would be improved by oxidative and antiinflammatory things.

I think some of that answer comes from studies like these: Analysis of Human Peripheral Blood Samples from Fatal and Nonfatal Cases of Ebola (Sudan) Hemorrhagic Fever and Inflammatory responses in Ebola virus-infected patients.

So what practical applications could be deduced from this?

Usually the word "oxidative" is followed by "damage", and things like iron and fish oil come to mind. :(

There is some evidence that D3 will increase plasma interferon levels Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy

Emodin can block nitric oxide formation. Thyroid and progesterone of course are antiinflammatory and block nitric oxide. One thinks of aspirin too, and Vit K.

Reports seem to indicate that current supportive treatment (experimental drugs aside) simply includes maintaining blood pressure, fluids and antibiotics for secondary infections. If more is being done, nobody seems to be talking about it.
 

Spokey

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I think it'd be a brave doctor trying aspirin on patients with hemorrhagic fever.
 

BingDing

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Great post, Lucy. A pal's girlfriend backed out of a trip to Uganda to see the Mountain Gorillas because of the Ebola outbreak, which queered the whole deal. I really couldn't fault her.

"Oxidative" means two things, oxidative damage from free radicals/oxygen radicals/reactive oxygen species (bad things), and oxidative respiration in the mitochondria (a good thing). Confusing for sure, I guess you have to take Ray's comment in context.

I might be totally wrong but low dose naltrexone might promote interferon. Been thinking about trying it out for immune support in general.
 
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LucyL

LucyL

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Spokey said:
I think it'd be a brave doctor trying aspirin on patients with hemorrhagic fever.

Take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning :lol: I wonder if we are already too far down the practicing medicine off the checklist approach to modern medicine to have any brave doctors left to confront something like this.

BingDing said:
"Oxidative" means two things, oxidative damage from free radicals/oxygen radicals/reactive oxygen species (bad things), and oxidative respiration in the mitochondria (a good thing). Confusing for sure, I guess you have to take Ray's comment in context.

And sometimes free radicals aren't bad. Which made me wonder if a short dose of an oxidative substance might stimulate a stronger immune reaction but then we are in horomesis territory (and I've wondered if that has been tried too...).

But I agree Ray probably meant oxidative in terms of mitochondrial respiration, then we're looking again at aspirin (and brave doctors), CO2, calcium, and proper lipids (coconut oil?) as indicated by this quote from Ray's article "Fats, functions and malfunctions"

The crucial mitochondrial respiratory enzyme, cytochrome c oxidase, declines with aging (Paradies, et al., 1997), as the lipid cardiolipin declines, and the enzyme's activity can be restored to the level of young animals by adding cardiolipin. The composition of cardiolipin changes with aging, "specifically an increase in highly unsaturated fatty acids" (Lee, et al., 2006). Other lipids, such as a phosphatidylcholine containing two myristic acid groups, can support the enzyme's activity (Hoch, 1992). Even supplementing old animals with hydrogenated peanut oil restores mitochondrial respiration to about 80% of normal (Bronnikov, et al., 2010).
 

BingDing

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LucyL said:
And sometimes free radicals aren't bad. Which made me wonder if a short dose of an oxidative substance might stimulate a stronger immune reaction but then we are in horomesis territory (and I've wondered if that has been tried too...).

I know what you mean. There is a theory that health and long life might be the product of an adaptive response to oxidative stress from free radicals. I think there is some mechanism that works like that, but I suspect it is more of a once in a lifetime thing than a chronic condition that mandates continuous corrections. It may be more related to DNA methylation than any regular metabolic process, where a certain condition gets frozen into the DNA when the oxidative stress occurs and that happens to be beneficial.

Pure speculation on my part, of course.
 
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LucyL

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A new study attempts to explain exactly how the Ebola virus interferes with interferon action.

Ebola virus defeats attempts by interferon to block viral reproduction in infected cells

The current study determined the structure of eVP24 when bound to its cellular targets, transport proteins called karyopherins. The study used these structures to show how, in place of interferon's natural downstream signal carrier phosphorylated STAT1, eVP24 docks into the karyopherins meant to escort STAT1 into cell nuclei where it turns on interferon-targeted genes. By elegantly interfering at this stage, eVP24 cripples innate immunity to cause EVD.
 

burtlancast

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This isn't Peat approved, but there's wide clinical evidence for Vit C arresting any virus infection (AIDS included).

And then there's my own experience in using MMS (Jim Humble) to arrest established flu ( with full blown cataclysmic runny nose that no amount of Vit C could stop :lol: ) in just 24 hours.
MMS works against any virus, bacteria and parasite.

I add there might be some usage for essential oils, as they sometimes produced the same results as MMS during many of my colds ( it either works totally or fails totally; my guess is it depends on the type of virus/ bacteria).
 
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LucyL

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Selenium has evidently been proven to have a good effect too, especially when combined with Chloroquine. (http://frontpageafricaonline.com/index. ... -donations)

Chloroquine is best known for treatment of malaria, but it is also being looked at as an antiviral for Chikungunya Fever, which can also be hemorrhagic, and it also could be a treatment for hemorrhagic shock.

I found two interesting studies one using Chloroquine and one using Aspirin in treatment of dogs with induced hemorrhagic shock.

http://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF03013317
http://rd.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF03004818
 
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LucyL

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Two things in the perhaps 'less than practical' category, but still viable theraputics:

clomiphene - as discussed in this thread

and lamivudine.
 
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LucyL

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Andrew asked Dr. Peat the Ebola question at the end of the Oct. 17th KMUD show...http://www.raypeatforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=5042

Dr. Peat listed Aspirin, Coffee and Niacinamide as protective against inflammation - Nitric Oxide. I took this more as preventative measures, rather than a so-called "treatment" if you are in the throes of agony.
 

charlie

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I am actually listening to that right now LucyL. It starts around the 54:30 mark.
 
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LucyL

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Experiments with Ebola

So it looks like this guy is going to go to Sierra Leone (at the invitation of the government no less?) and inject Ozone (O3) into Ebola patients. :shock: Ozone Therapy: a possible answer to Ebola?

He's worried about losing veins...He should probably be more worried about stopping the bleeding from the puncture holes.

That will be very interesting to keep an eye on, while wondering if any of it is even remotely believable...

The cytokine storm aspect to Ebola is interesting. I noticed Nina Pham looked a little puffy when she was pictured greeting the President after her cure. I wondered if they pumped her full of steroids to fight against the cytokine storm. That is a popular treatment against the bird-flu cytokine storms. Not sure that I'd want that though. Steroids are such a double edged sword.

Ultraviolet blood irradiation therapy sounds interesting, but it also sounds like a small amount of blood is "cleansed" at a time. I don't really see how it can fight a virus replicating as fast as Ebola does.

Back on the topic of Cytokine Storms, Dr. Ayers wrote a blog post on them several years ago
Extreme Flu Remedies and a paper Swine Flu Cytokine Storm Cures the major takeaways being Heparin, Berberine (from Barberry), Curcumin and his anti-inflammatory diet. Acetylsalicylic acid and Omega 3 fatty acids are mentioned in his paper. Nicotine comes up in the comments.

Another study published in 2010 (not Ayers) suggested
high-dose salicylates, spirulina, and N-acetylcysteine, initiated at the earliest feasible time, may prove to have life-saving efficacy when the next killer influenza pandemic strikes.
 

tara

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I heard part of an interview with a doctor who had treated some patients successfully in this and previous ebola outbreaks. He said hydration fluids were always extremely important - at least 4 litres a day. I didn't hear what the ingredients were beyond water. I guess sugar and sodium chloride and potassium in some form at least?
 
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LucyL

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ORS powder is widely used, the WHO has a recommended formula that many manufacturers make - in the rest of the world where cholera and such are endemic. In Ebola you would probably need something with high potassium, as low potassium levels is thought to be contributing to a lot of the sudden deaths in Ebola. Standard Gatorade, Powerade etc. don't have much potassium, compared to Pedialyte for example, but Gatorade does make a product called Gatorlytes that supply much more potassium. Pedialyte does make an adult product, but good luck getting it in this country.
 
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LucyL

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More Experiments with Ebola

The idea of cleaning the blood is evidently pretty popular. (Unfortunately not so practical for home use :( ). The PFI forum put up an article about a blood filtration system that was used on a patient in Germany Device Maker Says Ebola Patient Recovered After Blood Filtration. (Side note, I love the add on the right - "Tumor bearing mice available TODAY!" ... wonder if they take paypal...hopefully the tumors aren't too aggressive and shipment doesn't get held up at the UPS facility...)

The company says its bio-filter uses a membrane coated with lectins—proteins that bind to carbohydrates. The filter captures viruses by binding with the glycoproteins on their surface. (The glycoproteins normally enable viruses to lock onto cells while they are circulating in the body.)
...
Geiger said the patient did not receive Hemopurifier therapy until 12 days after he was initially diagnosed. By then, he was unconscious and suffering from multiple organ failures. He was being mechanically ventilated, continuously dialyzed, and was receiving medications to raise his blood pressure.
...
the number of Ebola viruses in the patient’s blood plunged from 400,000 to 1,000 viral copies per milliliter following a single 6.5-hour administration of Hemopurifier therapy. The viral load never again rose above 1,000 copies per ml.

The point of the aggressive treatments is to keep the patient alive long enough for the immune system to overcome. If it will. Viral load is a huge issue in Ebola infection, if it reaches a certain point the body basically has no chance.

Interestingly, this patient was also treated with an experimental heart drug, FX06. Here is a paper on FX06 Peptide Bβ15-42 Preserves Endothelial Barrier Function in Shock.
Here we show that a natural plasmin digest product of fibrin, peptide Bß15-42 (also called FX06), significantly reduces vascular leak and mortality in animal models for Dengue shock syndrome

Okay, the vascular leakiness issue is familiar, but something was confusing here. Ray Peat wrote in Bleeding, Clotting, Cancer
Clots are formed when soluble fibrinogen polymerizes, condenses, and becomes insoluble. Even before the particles of fibrin become insoluble, a clot-dissolving system is continuously breaking it down into small peptides. These peptides tend to cause capillaries to leak. If a massive amount of fibrinogen and fibrin leak out of capillaries, clots are formed outside capillaries, and the peptides released in the process of cleaning up this debris contribute to further leakage, and to inflammation. The inflammation stimulates the production of collagen-rich connective tissue, and a fibrotic tissue replaces the functional tissues. Many of Hans Selye’s experiments explored the conditions in which inflammation, exudation, and fibrosis developed, sometimes ending with calcification of the region.

The presence of fibrin in the extracellular matrix interferes with the differentiated functioning of cells, which depend on their contact with a normal matrix. When healing and regeneration occur in the normal matrix, the remodeling of the tissue involves the breakdown of collagen, which releases peptides with antiinflammatory, antiangiogenic and antiinvasive actions. When fibrin is present, the remodeling process releases peptides that increase cell growth, invasiveness, inflammation, and the production of new blood vessels, which in turn become leaky.

From Ray's description, it sounds like Peptide Bβ15-42 should be a collagen breakdown product, not fibrin :?: But then again, the first Ebola patient they tried this peptide on bled out and died anyway.
 

HDD

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I did this many years ago. I can't recall what I had read to inspire me to do this but it must have had to do with MS. No scientific data to offer other than I tended to slide down the bed. :D There could have been unnoticed improvement. I will check with my husband to see if he recalls any benefits.
 
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LucyL

LucyL

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HDD said:
I did this many years ago. I can't recall what I had read to inspire me to do this but it must have had to do with MS. No scientific data to offer other than I tended to slide down the bed. :D There could have been unnoticed improvement. I will check with my husband to see if he recalls any benefits.

HDD, weren't you a hospice nurse? (forgive me if I've got the wrong person) I was curious if you ever heard of the opposite side of the IBT theory, that even removing the pillow from a terminal patient would hasten death?

Edit: Nevermind HDD, I think it was Blossom I was thinking of. Blossom, if you read this...did you ever hear such a theory?
 

tara

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HDD said:
I did this many years ago. I can't recall what I had read to inspire me to do this but it must have had to do with MS. No scientific data to offer other than I tended to slide down the bed. :D There could have been unnoticed improvement. I will check with my husband to see if he recalls any benefits.
I tried IBD too. Similar results, but I quite liked it. My mlidly asthmatic child likes large or double pillows.

Buteyko observed early morning hyperventilation asssociated with increased death rate. Consistent with night-time rise in stress hormones.
 

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