Dealing With Cortisol

charmer · Nov 8, 2014

Speaking of cortisol, did anyone here get to the bottom of why it can be so high? How does one deal with subclinical Cushing's syndrome?

Peat seems to give little attention to serious infections, yet there are so many of those, I wonder how to find out what it might be... Since supplementing thyroid and lowering TSH below 1 doesn't really fix inflammation in my case, I wonder where else to look. Things keep getting worse. Intestinal hemorrhages, thus constipation, vaginal inflammation with no serious cause identified that doesn't go away making it impossible to have a sex life. My cortisol is through the roof too often, I am easily overwhelmed with everything life.

If there is some underlying undiagnosed infection, anyone having luck and persistence tracking it down? If cortisol is protective against inflammation until a certain point, is it really safe to use drugs/herbs that lower it? Wouldn't that infection dominate you to death?

Any personal experiences and studies are so appreciated.

tca300 · Nov 8, 2014

Are You sure you have an infection? I might as well ask it, what is your lifestyle like? What do you eat? how much time do you get in the sun?

charmer · Nov 8, 2014

My lifestyle isn't perfect, my job is sedentary and can be stressful. I've been attempting to follow Peat's advice for 2 years. I don't get a lot of time in the sun, but I am using red light, taking vitamin D supplement along with thyroid, cyproheptadine, progest-e, vitex, niacinamide, cascara tea. My protein intake is about 40g a day, more is impossible for me. Sipping my oj, milk, cottage cheese, gelatin soups, coffee gives me super high adrenaline, niacinamide didn't seem to help with that. Makes me crash into tears.

I don't digest any food well, so I don't produce necessary enzymes.

I tried many other Peat recommended supps and I am so lost. And no, I am not sure I have an infection.

tca300 · Nov 8, 2014

One of the main things that cause anxiety and poor digestion is a protein deficiency, When I use to eat about 35-50 grams of protein a day I couldn't handle stress at all. I really would say screw the supplements other than progest-e, maybe thyroid, lots of canning salt and I think you would find regular Epson salt baths to be beneficial. What are your temps and pulse like? Sorry if you said but do you eat raw carrots? Density wise, it would be a lot easier to get more protein from meat vs dairy, I have found for me personally I cant utilize the protein from dairy very well, and its high in estrogen. Even if I'm consuming 180 grams of protein a day from milk and cheese, I get muscle tears and have zero energy, but beef digest's great and I feel strong and energized with it. Jerky is kinda expensive but its very protein dense because there is basically no water in it, usually like 10 grams of protein per 1 oz of jerky, which is awesome, 8 oz of jerky is 80 grams of protein vs 8 oz of milk being like 8 grams of protein... not even a comparison. My wife has a very very small appetite and could never get the protein she needed from dairy or typical meats, but can easily get 70-80 grams from jerky. If your estrogen is high, dairy probably is a bad option in my opinion. I think several raw carrots a day, protein meat/gelatin, salt, plenty of sugar ( orange juice ) extra bright light with continued use of progest-e and epsom salt baths could really help.
And ya, screw the coffee for now.

charmer · Nov 8, 2014

Did boosting protein help her with estrogen dominance?

tca300 · Nov 8, 2014

Protein was a big part of the puzzle ya, I calculated that she averaged 25-35 grams per day most of her life before she met me, plus a monstrous intake of PUFA via Cheetos and lots of fast food. Her ex talked her into using birth control too ( stupid **** ) plus she HATES being hot and in the sun, so she spent most of her time inside, in the dark, and had virtually no fiber in her diet, she was a mess, zero sex drive, really poor cognitive function, cold hands and feet, etc etc.. Now shes doing great. The liver NEEDS protein to destroy and detoxify estrogen. And the fiber ( raw carrot ) sucks up estrogen that the body dumps in the intestines, ( without the fiber, the estrogen gets reabsorbed ) and bright light lowers melatonin ( melatonin blocks progesterone production and promotes the production of estrogen ) oh and magnesium is very important for detoxing estrogen, she takes several epsom salt baths a week

Such_Saturation · Nov 8, 2014

Ray Peat's view of the immune system is very advanced. He does not view any pathogen as unmanageable, although like any other thing these agents can provoke chronic degeneration when there aren't sufficient nutrients to tackle the stress once and for all.

charmer · Nov 8, 2014

Sure, I am aware. But he doesn't cover pathogens and toxins apart from intestinal bacteria, fungi and endotoxins. The only reference I found is - if thyroid sup doesn't bring your temperature up - it is probably an infection.

Not having sufficient nutrients is obviously a huge factor, but I am stuck. You can get sufficient nutrients, but they will hardly be absorbed, like in my case where food isn't properly digested due to high stress. Sometimes it comes out looking pretty much the same as it entered me.

tca300 · Nov 8, 2014

Raw carrots are highly beneficial in regards to endotoxins and bowel health. Your digestion will never improve unless you start supporting your metabolism with the most important raw materials ( protein, sugar )
Ray says if a thyroid supplement doesnt raise your temperature its because your not consuming enough protein.

charmer · Nov 8, 2014

I never noticed raw carrots helping me.

tca300 · Nov 8, 2014

Not only that but on a low protein diet, cortisol is constantly elevated because your body has to continuously use cortisol to break down muscle and organ tissue to supply the body with the amino acids it needs for various purposes

Such_Saturation · Nov 8, 2014

charmer said:
Sure, I am aware. But he doesn't cover pathogens and toxins apart from intestinal bacteria, fungi and endotoxins. The only reference I found is - if thyroid sup doesn't bring your temperature up - it is probably an infection.

Not having sufficient nutrients is obviously a huge factor, but I am stuck. You can get sufficient nutrients, but they will hardly be absorbed, like in my case where food isn't properly digested due to high stress. Sometimes it comes out looking pretty much the same as it entered me.

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=4146

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=4369

pboy · Nov 8, 2014

theres a lot that could be the problem...id need more details, but one thing I can point out right away is cascara tea, which is harsh on the intestines I wouldn't be surprised if excess use in a weakened state could cause bleeding. Also, I cant help with the supplement stuff but they usually all have potential side effects, and if you are trying to learn yourself, your body, and want to grow in the healthiest way with a strong foundation, its best to not use supplements, especially when you are trying to find digestive or other health lowing culprits...its hard to really know things for sure when taking supplements, especially multiple ones

tca300 · Nov 8, 2014

" A simple protein deficiency has many surprising effects. It lowers body temperature, and suppresses the thyroid, but it increases inflammation and the tendency of blood to clot. Since the brain and heart and lungs require a continuous supply of essential amino acids if they are to continue functioning, in the absence of dietary protein, cortisol must be produced continuously to mobilize amino acids from the expendable tissues, which are mainly the skeletal muscles." - Ray Peat ( Bold is mine )

“It takes a few days for the intestine to adjust to raw carrot, but the indigestible fiber is very protective for the intestine. Boiled bamboo shoots, which are also mostly indigestible, have a similar effect. These fibers prevent the reabsorption of estrogen in the intestine, and can shift the balance away from cortisol and estrogen, toward progesterone and thyroid, in just a few days of regular use.....” - Ray Peat ( Bold is mine again.. )

superhuman · Nov 9, 2014

tca300:
Im pretty sure that the diary is high in protein is not true? i remember i asked RP about that statement as well and he provided me with a great deal of paper studies on the subject.
Also if estrogen is a problem with dairy products it has to be with higher fat products since thats where the estrogen is stored. So skim milk etc would not have anything?

tca300 · Nov 9, 2014

Skim milk has more estrogen than whole milk so no... Milk is mostly water, so you have to drink a crap load to get your protein from it, and that's assuming you can even utilize the protein in it. And the insane amount of calcium that you would get from consuming that much dairy ( milk or cheese ) will inhibit your magnesium and zinc absorption, which would also negatively affect your bodies ability to detoxify and inhibit estrogen production, Andrew Kim agrees with me on that.

haidut · Nov 9, 2014

charmer said:
Speaking of cortisol, did anyone here get to the bottom of why it can be so high? How does one deal with subclinical Cushing's syndrome?

Peat seems to give little attention to serious infections, yet there are so many of those, I wonder how to find out what it might be... Since supplementing thyroid and lowering TSH below 1 doesn't really fix inflammation in my case, I wonder where else to look. Things keep getting worse. Intestinal hemorrhages, thus constipation, vaginal inflammation with no serious cause identified that doesn't go away making it impossible to have a sex life. My cortisol is through the roof too often, I am easily overwhelmed with everything life.

If there is some underlying undiagnosed infection, anyone having luck and persistence tracking it down? If cortisol is protective against inflammation until a certain point, is it really safe to use drugs/herbs that lower it? Wouldn't that infection dominate you to death?

Any personal experiences and studies are so appreciated.

I can't comment on the infection part, but if you need to lower cortisol taking 5mg-25mg DHEA will lower cortisol by 40%-60% and those are human studies btw. It is another question altogether if you want to lower cortisol by that much but since you asked I am just giving you an answer. A similar effect can be achieved with Cascara. A dose of 800mg-1,000mg will inhibit the synthesis of new cortisol and again lower plasma levels by 50%+, but of course may give you loose stool as a side effect. It's up to you to pick the more convenient option.
Finally, progesterone and pregnenolone are also supposed to lower cortisol but I have seen reports on this forum that for some people these two substances actually may increase cortisol. Since nobody did blood tests I don't know for sure if that is true, but some people reported feeling worse. PubMed does not have studies showing pregnenolone or progesterone raising cortisol, so by that measure they are pretty safe.
Let us know if you do sort out the infection issue. There are quite a few people on this forum with similar gut issues to your so I am sure they will be interested in hearing about it.

GregW · Nov 10, 2014

tca300 said:
Skim milk has more estrogen than whole milk so no... Milk is mostly water, so you have to drink a crap load to get your protein from it, and that's assuming you can even utilize the protein in it. And the insane amount of calcium that you would get from consuming that much dairy ( milk or cheese ) will inhibit your magnesium and zinc absorption, which would also negatively affect your bodies ability to detoxify and inhibit estrogen production, Andrew Kim agrees with me on that.

Could you please post your references for your milk/estrogen comments? Thanks.

Ray has commented on estrogen in milk several times and seems to have a different conclusion.

lindsay · Nov 10, 2014

From what I've gathered with the whole milk/estrogen thing, there is way more progesterone in the milk, so you have to look at it both ways. I can't remember where, but there was a study someone found on Peatarian - I can't find it, but it was a comparison of levels of progesterone in Milk. It was pretty much always higher than estrogen.

Additionally, I struggle to get enough protein in my diet for a myriad of reasons. I've recently looked to greek yogurt at breakfast. One cup packs in something like 23 grams of protein - so, much better than a glass of milk. Add a bit of honey or fruit and some salt and you are golden! Also, shellfish provide good protein with a decent balance of glycine and selenium.

LucyL · Nov 10, 2014

charmer said:
If there is some underlying undiagnosed infection, anyone having luck and persistence tracking it down? If cortisol is protective against inflammation until a certain point, is it really safe to use drugs/herbs that lower it? Wouldn't that infection dominate you to death?

Any personal experiences and studies are so appreciated.

Selenium is a good mineral for boosting your body's capability to fight viral infections, and a lot of other stuff too. (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3600024909)

It is not necessary to take a supplement, just 2 Brazil nuts a day (http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/2/379.short) can normalize your body's selenium levels. Brazil nuts do have a relatively high PUFA content, but they are a whole food, and benefits might outweigh that particular risk.

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