Interested but partially lost.

I'm a 26 year old natural bodybuilder and powerlifting, therefore I've been studying nutrition with regards to my performance and gains for approximately four years now. I have dieted down for a show and manipulated my body fat via calorie restriction, tracking my macronutrients meticulously alongside a very structure weight training and cardio protocol. NOW, I'm becoming a lot more interested in the health aspect of nutrition and am starting to see via Ray Peats writings that the performance side of things sometimes conflicts very strongly with the health side of things that I've seen RP promote.

I must admit that I'm confused as to where to REALLY start to get a full understanding of what RP finds optimal and WHY. I've read various articles, but they all tend to focus on just one aspect or just one very specific food substrate and therefore leave a lot to be questioned with regards to the overarching dietary needs. My main goals, first and foremost are body composition and strength output. I DO want to be relatively healthy in the long term, but I will NOT adopt an eating style that will change my body composition unfavorably in order to achieve some health benefit. That may seem absurd to many of you and I understand that, however when you are this into or passionate about an endeavor, you are willing to make sacrifices to achieve the goal in mind and heart.

With regards to how I currently eat:

The vast majority of my protein intake comes from dairy...strained greek yogurt (the higher in protein type...FAGE is the brand I use), 1% cottage cheese. I do surprisingly eat A LOT of sugar free jello (Unsure on how RP feels about food coloring and artificial sweeteners) I make a large bowl of either cottage cheese or greek yogurt or both with 2-3 sugar free jello cups and 1-2 servings of fruit..if I need more carbohydrate I tend to add puffed rice, or perhaps a sugar cereal IF IT FITS MY MACROS for the day. The remainder of my protein does come from some meat...typically beef or chicken breast..so lean muscle meats (Which I'm aware RP is against). I supplement with BCAAs pre and intra weight training, approximately 10g. I also take in quite a bit of caffeine per day, as well as 5g of creatine monohydrate.

To summate...majority of my protein is dairy with some muscle meats per day...majority of my carbs are fruit with some sugar cereals added...I eat relatively lower fat..35-50g of dietary fat per day on MOST days...I do this more so out of preference because I'd rather fill my calorie needs with more carbohydrates than dietary fat. I do eat peanut butter..about a tablespoon or two per day and I'm pretty sure that's frowned upon by RP as well.

I weight train about 4-5 days per week and do a little cardio..maybe 2 sessions or so per week..moderate intensity for 20-30 minutes. I included a relatively recent picture from the gym to give an idea of my current conditioning.

So, I guess I'm simply seeking a better understanding and guideline as to how low I could bring my dietary fat down safely (I always have heard and read that fat is necessary for hormonal health) and if I could include starchy carbs like white rice and potato to help hit my carb numbers without JUST eating mainly fruit and sugary bs etc. Also, I'm questioning how much harm I'm doing by ingesting roughly 4-6 cups per day of artificially sweetened jello. I don't want to have to track carbs from the jello I eat and that's why I lean towards the sugar free variety. Thanks for reading!

DRTrenbolone,

Might want to check out some of lazz's post.

viewtopic.php?p=23993#p23993

Welcome DRTrenbolone

Welcome!! Regarding the Jello - I'd be more concerned about WHAT it is sweetened with. There is such a thing as aspartame poisoning - my SIL had it from drinking diet soda and it mimicked MS. Very serious. You're better off just buying plain gelatin (like Great Lakes) and dissolving that into your liquids. Or you can make your own jello and use a better form of calorie free sweetener - like Stevia (but really, sugar is way tastier!)

Hey Guys...I'm resurrecting this post instead of adding a new thread and cluttering things up more. I haven't been on here in quite sometime, however my interest in Peat style eating has been re-sparked as of recent and I'd like to give some thoughts and ideas as to what I'm doing, how I'm feeling and my current experience...as well as of course, questions and concerns. Here goes:

1. Current diet - Basically 2600-2800kcal per day, which I track pretty accurately via a foodscale and a tracking application on my phone. I don't have set meals like many individuals do, in fact my eating style/schedule would seem rather bizarre to many. I tend to just eat more bolus amounts of food in the morning and in the evening, and in the in between tend to just continually "snack" on various fruits periodically. I also consume a large amount of caffeine throughout the day...say anywhere from 2-4 cups of coffee with 3TSP of sugar in each one, and a preworkout drink of some kind, which contains anywhere from 200-400mg of additional caffeine and performance boosting supplements. I eat a very large amount of Fage 0% Greek yogurt, as well as Friendship 1% Cottage cheese...I salt most of my food and I consume about 18-30g or so of a liquid collagen supplement. I also eat eggs relatively often, say 4-5 days out of the week and it is usually 3-4 whole eggs. I consume a lot more protein than most of you guys and I'd say the vast majority comes from greek yogurt and cottage cheese...on a given day I may get anywhere from 200-250g of protein. I don't believe I need this much, but I do consume it for the satiety effect (I'll get to my hunger issues on this diet later). I do NOT follow Ray Peat to the dot..I simply don't think bananas are going to hurt me ( I don't mean to offend and this will be brought up later)...I eat all fruits: apples, bananas, blueberries, oranges, nectarines, grapes...you name it..and this varies from week to week depending upon what is in my house. On a given day, as I said my calories are around 2600-2800kcal and this is anywhere from 10-20% dietary fat (I just started including coconut oil so the fat is closer to 20% now), 50-60% carbohydrates and the rest protein.

2. Supplementation - I JUST started taking Natural Sources Raw Thyroid..one cap in the AM. I take 500mg Glycine/10mg B6 2-3 times per day...Himalaya Ashwagandha, and a Multivitamin from Garden of Life. I also take Creatine Monohydrate 5g per day...Branched Chain Amino Acids 10minutes prior to training and 1 Scoop of Whey Protein after training. I realize you guys are anti supplementation due to contamination, I don't really buy that though. With regards to the BCAAs and Whey...I am required to consume this, as I am enrolled in a training study at the university that I'm attaining my graduate level degree at. They supply us with 10g of BCAAs 10 minutes prior to training and 30g of Whey Protein immediately after training...it is mandated by the study.

Current Thoughts, Questions Concerns:

I feel constantly hungry on this..and some days, simply off! I have always had a ravenous appetite, even before this..but, the fruits seem to just make me even more hungry...I have to really tell myself to stop eating or I'll have days where I eat like a ridiculous amount of grapes, two apples, two bananas, 3 eggs, 16oz of cottage cheese, more grapes, a nectarine etc etc...this will go on BACK TO BACK until I just say F this, I'm not eating anymore. My body composition does not appear to have improved...if anything, my body composition looks worse. I look to have definitely gained adipose tissue, however strength in the gym has gone up...my body weight has gone up. I REALLY know my body at this point and...it's not all lean weight, I can promise you that. The strange thing is...it's not as if I'm going overboard on calories. Even if I have one of the above binges, I still restrain my calories so they are in line with that 2600 or cut off by the end of the day. So those are my main issues...extreme hunger that is not satisfied (not as it once was when I included more fats in my diet..nut butters etc) and definite fat gain despite not being in that severe of a hypercaloric state.

Here are where I have some comments that MAY receive hate, but please understand that I am only coming from a place of inquiry and attempting to really understand things. Some of Peat's ideas seem very logical, some seem a bit out there and some I have a very difficult time accepting in real life application.

With regards to nut butters, eating meat causing thyroid suppression:
I can not tell you how many guys my age (27) consume large quantities of muscle meat and peanut butter...and they are very lean..very low body fat...muscular and strong..and feel great. In fact, my best friend consumes a lot of peanut butter...consumes plenty of meats etc...doesn't use any gelatin, uses fish oil daily etc...great shape...no signs of thyroid issues...lean year round. I on the other hand am following Peats suggestions (not perfectly) but WAYYY more than he is...I have a lot more body fat...I certainly don't look as lean as him and I have a difficult time cutting fat when it comes time to cut. I can name off SO MANY individuals I know first hand or follow on social media that consume ALL of the foods that I seem to be avoiding, and Peat advises against...and they all look WAY better than I do..many of them are natural lifters. If their thyroids were being suppressed so drastically and they were causing so much health damage, how could they remain and get leaner, more muscular on a relatively normal-high calorie intake?

There seems to be certain contradictions that don't add up, at least anecdotal evidence that would certainly raise some questions and doubts to this protocol. That is not to say that I won't continue to do what I'm doing...but, it is to say that my physique certainly hasn't improved ...and mentally I seem to just be more
hungry than ever and restricted.

I'll add to this as the discussion picks up...thanks guys.

DRTrenbolone said:

So those are my main issues...extreme hunger that is not satisfied (not as it once was when I included more fats in my diet..nut butters etc) and definite fat gain despite not being in that severe of a hypercaloric state.

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...or you can just eat more fat, feel stable and not constantly hungry. I've been there. But there's still plenty of scope to incorporate Peat's ideas, for example go for dairy fats instead of nutt butters.