Taking Willow Bark Extracts Instead Of Aspirin ?

burtlancast · Dec 26, 2014

I've heard Willow Bark ( from which non synthetic aspirin is extracted) has a longer lasting effect than aspirin, and much lower dangers of gastro-intestinal bleeding.

Has Ray discussed this alternative to aspirin ?

moss · Dec 29, 2014

It has been well contended that Salicylate glycosides may have a corrosive effect on the gut wall in substances such as Asprin and Willowbark. I think there is a failure to appreciate and acknowledge the difference that of a 'galenical' (plant) preparation to that of an 'isolate' (synthetic). Willowbark contains tannins, which are slightly estrogenic in nature, but I believe short term use may be fine.

moss · Dec 29, 2014

It has been well contended that Salicylate glycosides may have a corrosive effect on the gut wall in substances such as Asprin and Willowbark. I think there is a failure to appreciate and acknowledge the difference that of a 'galenical' (plant) preparation to that of an 'isolate' (synthetic). Willowbark contains tannins, which are slightly estrogenic in nature, but I believe short term use may be fine.

Amended here,

A quote from Simon Mills -
"The most well known side effects of salicylates is their ability to produce multiple gastric submucous haemorrhages, especially when given in concentration. They can in fact be relied on to produce some stomach bleeding in almost everyone, although this is only occasionally so serious as to provoke concern. In this context it is worth noting the use of Meadowsweet to heal damage to the stomach wall, a paradoxical action probably produced by the combination of mucilage's and tannins usually discarded in conventional exploration of medicinal plant chemistry."

Whether it has a longer lasting effect than aspirin I am not sure. However, the use of Willowbark over a time may well have a more 'building up effect' rather than an isolate perhaps?

Perhaps it would be a good question to ask Dr Peat on the next KMUD show?

burtlancast · Dec 30, 2014

I'm wondering this because Ray has mentioned some diabetics type 2 people take up to 6g of aspirin/day (although temporally) in order to inhibit the enzyme releasing free fatty acids from TG stores.

Then i saw this video of Michael Farley, where he's adamant williow bark is a much safer alternative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1W762y5NyM

moss · Dec 30, 2014

Thanks BLC for the vision.
I think using aspirin is OK, its just finding one that with the least amount of excipients. If you have access to a compounding pharmacy you may be able to get them to make it up excipient free, note it will have a shorter life.
I've not had issues with Willowbark and all the other constituents contained within the herb itself, may negate any side effects perhaps?

burtlancast · Jan 11, 2015

Here's what the University of Maryland has to say:

Some studies show willow is as effective as aspirin for reducing pain and inflammation (but not fever), and at a much lower dose.
White willow appears to bring pain relief more slowly than aspirin, but its effects may last longer.
Scientists think that may be due to other compounds in the herb, like polyphenols and flavonoids, who have antioxidant, fever reducing, antiseptic, and immune boosting properties.

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/willow-bark

TreasureVibe · Apr 20, 2018

Bump!

TheBeard · Jun 7, 2021

moss said:
It has been well contended that Salicylate glycosides may have a corrosive effect on the gut wall in substances such as Asprin and Willowbark. I think there is a failure to appreciate and acknowledge the difference that of a 'galenical' (plant) preparation to that of an 'isolate' (synthetic). Willowbark contains tannins, which are slightly estrogenic in nature, but I believe short term use may be fine.

Amended here,

A quote from Simon Mills -
"The most well known side effects of salicylates is their ability to produce multiple gastric submucous haemorrhages, especially when given in concentration. They can in fact be relied on to produce some stomach bleeding in almost everyone, although this is only occasionally so serious as to provoke concern. In this context it is worth noting the use of Meadowsweet to heal damage to the stomach wall, a paradoxical action probably produced by the combination of mucilage's and tannins usually discarded in conventional exploration of medicinal plant chemistry."

Whether it has a longer lasting effect than aspirin I am not sure. However, the use of Willowbark over a time may well have a more 'building up effect' rather than an isolate perhaps?

Perhaps it would be a good question to ask Dr Peat on the next KMUD show?

This goes to show how members back at the beginning of RPF were subtle, well-versed and eloquent.
For the past two years RPF has only welcomed a slew of new members who are looking for a quick fix, think this is a reddit-type of sub-forum with question/answers types of exchanges.

The amount of threads has made RPF easily found on Google for any kind of request now, and it's coming in the first result pages as soon as you are experiencing PFS or have the slightest interest in Aspirin.

I miss those times when members were people I would admire, envy for their knowledge, derive biology understandings from and new angles to approach my issues.

They were people who took risks, experimented, and delivered the outcomes of their experiments to benefit the rest and open discussions.

Back to the topic of Willow bark: I've received my extract and will start experimenting with it, in the hope of reducing systemic bloat.

I'm very hesitant to try pharmaceutical aspirin, hence my move to go "natural".

TheBeard · Jun 7, 2021

burtlancast said:
I'm wondering this because Ray has mentioned some diabetics type 2 people take up to 6g of aspirin/day (although temporally) in order to inhibit the enzyme releasing free fatty acids from TG stores.

I would venture to add: isn't PUFA depletion what we all wish to achieve?
By inhibiting free fatty acids release from stores, how are you ever going to achieve depletion?

burtlancast · Jun 7, 2021

TheBeard said:
I would venture to add: isn't PUFA depletion what we all wish to achieve?
By inhibiting free fatty acids release from stores, how are you ever going to achieve depletion?

Lol.

Excellent point !

Jam · Jun 7, 2021

Glucuronidation.

TheBeard · Jun 7, 2021

Jam said:
Glucuronidation.

Yes and...?

Jam · Jun 7, 2021

TheBeard said:
By inhibiting free fatty acids release from stores, how are you ever going to achieve depletion?

By glucuronidation.

Understanding Lipolysis & PUFA Depletion

This is something that's caused me confusion for some time now. There's much talk here about inhibiting lipoysis (fat burning?) but at the same time we need to deplete stored PUFA? If our actions inhibit lipolysis then how are we ever going to reduce bodyfat & deplete PUFA?

raypeatforum.com

TheBeard · Jun 7, 2021

Jam said:
By glucuronidation.

Understanding Lipolysis & PUFA Depletion

This is something that's caused me confusion for some time now. There's much talk here about inhibiting lipoysis (fat burning?) but at the same time we need to deplete stored PUFA? If our actions inhibit lipolysis then how are we ever going to reduce bodyfat & deplete PUFA?

raypeatforum.com

Ahhhhh got you.

I'd rather fast 4 days at a time and burn the **** out of those PUFA quick.

Lejeboca · Jun 8, 2021

TheBeard said:
Back to the topic of Willow bark: I've received my extract and will start experimenting with it,

When I started on the white willow bark (wwb) extract (at low doses ~5 drops 2x/day), I had some bleeding problems, such as non-intense hemorrhoid bleeding and nosebleeds. Took some vitamin K at first. Then I dropped regular vitamin K since I stopped having bleeding issues while still continuing the extract daily. In other words, I think there is a positive adjustment to using the herb extract, which I haven't see with aspirin per se.

TheBeard said:
in the hope of reducing systemic bloat.

I haven't seen wwb used for bloating. So I'd be interested in your experience.
On the other hand, I've heard herbalist Francis Bonaldo swear by orange-peel extract for bloating. Since this is outside this thread, DM me if interested in his orange-peel usage for bloating.

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Taking Willow Bark Extracts Instead Of Aspirin ?

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