PUFA Detox

Ray Peat general discussion.

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PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:32 pm

You want the PUFAs to stay in the cells and not be released into circulation so they can be slowly detoxed by the liver.


This ^^ is a quote that I wrote on an index card last March 1. I think it is a quote from one of the interviews. I didn't note which one. Sorry about that.

Then, I wrote this which cut off at the end:
You can restore oxidative metabolism with PUFA in your tissues but any stress will probably release PUFA unless....


Well, I've been thinking about pufa storage and how we get rid of them.
Glad to find this info on one of my cards that I unpacked today. I have a lot of good stuff on cards. :)

Does anybody know how Peat says pufas might not be released during stress? High blood levels of what would aid? Niacinamide? Vit E? Sugar? All of these and more?

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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Charlie » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:37 pm

Great thread Birdie.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby j. » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:46 pm

Birdie wrote:Does anybody know how Peat says pufas might not be released during stress? High blood levels of what would aid? Niacinamide? Vit E? Sugar? All of these and more?


I'm guessing aspirin diminishes the damage when they are released.

Related threat at peatarian: PUFAs in The Bloodstream


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:03 pm

j. wrote:
Birdie wrote:Does anybody know how Peat says pufas might not be released during stress? High blood levels of what would aid? Niacinamide? Vit E? Sugar? All of these and more?


I'm guessing aspirin diminishes the damage when they are released.

Related threat at peatarian: PUFAs in The Bloodstream

Thanks, j. My search didn't come up with that. Well, it was a brief search.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:04 pm

Birdie wrote:
j. wrote:
Birdie wrote:Does anybody know how Peat says pufas might not be released during stress? High blood levels of what would aid? Niacinamide? Vit E? Sugar? All of these and more?


I'm guessing aspirin diminishes the damage when they are released.

Related threat at peatarian: PUFAs in The Bloodstream

Thanks, j. My search didn't come up with that. Well, it was a brief search.

Oh, I was thinking it was a thread by peatarian, here! Thanks again. Found it.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:10 pm

From Rob at functionalps:


“‎The larger the quantity of “toxic fat” stored in the body, the more careful the person must be about increasing metabolic and physical activity. Using more vitamin E, short-chain saturated fats, and other anti-lipid-peroxidation agents is important.” Ray Peat


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:11 pm

Birdie wrote:From Rob at functionalps:


“‎The larger the quantity of “toxic fat” stored in the body, the more careful the person must be about increasing metabolic and physical activity. Using more vitamin E, short-chain saturated fats, and other anti-lipid-peroxidation agents is important.” Ray Peat

I found this via j's link to peatarian.com. Thanks again. A friend, Amy's first idea was niacinamide, and then vit E.

Glad there is a way.

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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Dorito Loyalist » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:07 pm

Would CO2 have any significant protective effect?
Fight for what you believe in.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:21 am

You would think so ^^ .

Here's another quote from Rob's group of them:
“People with a significant amount of fat in their body, who have in the past eaten foods containing vegetable oils, are likely to draw unsaturated fats out of storage, with toxic effects unless vitamin E, thyroid, and coconut oil are used protectively until tissue stores of unsaturated fats are depleted. Typically, body stores of fat take four years to completely reflect the change to a different type of dietary fat.” RP



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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:34 am

Another, same source:
Keeping the stored unsaturated fats from circulating in the blood is helpful, since it takes years to eliminate them from the tissues after the diet has changed. Niacinamide inhibits lipolysis. Avoiding overproduction of lipolytic adrenaline requires adequate thyroid hormone, and the adjustment of the diet to minimize fluctuations of blood sugar.” RP


Niacinamide again to keep the stored PUFs from circulating so they can be detoxed by the liver. Adrenaline also is lipolytic. Thyroid hormone and eating frequently (the right foods) to keep the blood sugar level.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:39 am

“When we don’t eat for many hours, our glycogen stores decrease, and adrenaline secretion is increased, liberating more glucose as long as glycogen is available, but also liberating fatty acids from the fatty tissues. RP


Nasty adrenaline liberating fatty acids that we want to keep in the cells while the liver slowly detoxes. Long periods of fasting don't look helpful with pufa detox.

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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Charlie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:32 am

Sometimes I wonder when I wake up in the middle of the night for a bathroom break if I should grab something real quick to top off my glycogen stores.

Awesome thread.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby jyb » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:21 pm

Birdie wrote:From Rob at functionalps:


“‎The larger the quantity of “toxic fat” stored in the body, the more careful the person must be about increasing metabolic and physical activity. Using more vitamin E, short-chain saturated fats, and other anti-lipid-peroxidation agents is important.” Ray Peat


So, RP says it takes 4 years when is storage is high. But what about thin people? I'm hypo yet have always been slim, no matter how much and how bad I eat.

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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby kiran » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:57 pm

jyb wrote:So, RP says it takes 4 years when is storage is high. But what about thin people? I'm hypo yet have always been slim, no matter how much and how bad I eat.


That depends. Are you lean or are you skinny fat?
You might be able to estimate body fat by using a calculator like this one:
http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculator. ... y-Fat-Navy

I've always been skinny fat myself.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:47 pm

Charlie wrote:Sometimes I wonder when I wake up in the middle of the night for a bathroom break if I should grab something real quick to top off my glycogen stores.

Awesome thread.

Yes, a lot of people do this. And, too:
Salt, which helps to maintain blood sugar, also tends to lower adrenalin. RP
TSH, Temp, pulse rate and other indicators in Hypothyroidism. 2007.

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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Charlie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:21 pm

Hmmm, need to figure out the optimal middle of the night snack. Definitely needs fructose in it.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:26 pm

Charlie wrote:Hmmm, need to figure out the optimal middle of the night snack. Definitely needs fructose in it.

Good. And it doesn't have to be the best, just good enough. IMO.


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby Birdie » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:31 pm

jyb wrote:
Birdie wrote:From Rob at functionalps:


“‎The larger the quantity of “toxic fat” stored in the body, the more careful the person must be about increasing metabolic and physical activity. Using more vitamin E, short-chain saturated fats, and other anti-lipid-peroxidation agents is important.” Ray Peat


So, RP says it takes 4 years when is storage is high. But what about thin people? I'm hypo yet have always been slim, no matter how much and how bad I eat.

I figure to do it all for 2 years. Then you'd be down to half of your starting pufa. I was off grains for many years and stopped seed oils years ago, but I continued DHA in big doses.
But I have a chronic condition that I want to improve. Makes me motivated. Fortunately, I've been on NDT for 15+ years, but still... I'm on the slim side too, but that is not no matter how much I eat. :lol:


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby narouz » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:14 pm

Birdie wrote:
Birdie wrote:From Rob at functionalps:


“‎The larger the quantity of “toxic fat” stored in the body, the more careful the person must be about increasing metabolic and physical activity. Using more vitamin E, short-chain saturated fats, and other anti-lipid-peroxidation agents is important.” Ray Peat

I found this via j's link to peatarian.com. Thanks again. A friend, Amy's first idea was niacinamide, and then vit E.

Glad there is a way.


Birdie-
We've discussed this before in some other thread,
and nwo2012 provided a great, missing piece of the PUFA Purging Puzzle for me.
I believe you noted it too at the time (so many threads here I lose track! :).

I'll dig it up,
but nwo2012 posted a communication from Peat
saying that the best way and perhaps the only non-destructive way
of getting PUFA out of the body is by a kind of natural chelation process
which your body, when metabolizing healthily, does slowly.
The chemical name of that chelation process is what I'll have to search for,
but it is on here somewhere.
This process allows the PUFA to exit harmlessly through the liver.

I'm afraid the "slowly" part is unavoidable and may take up to 4 years,
depending upon how fat one is and how much of that fat is PUFA.
To mobilize the PUFA out of the stored bodily fat is possible,
but that is not a good thing,
because once mobilized into the bloodstream they cause destruction.

This is one interesting feature of the Peat diet that goes against
a lot of other dietary or health plans, including some very revered and traditional ones.
Think of fasting or sweat lodges or saunas or sweating or intense exercise.
Many of those activities are central to traditional healing systems.
They are seen as cleansing and purging
and even character and spirit building.

But...like I said, this kind of feature would seem to be missing in PeatLand.
If you try to "clean yourself out" by those methods,
Peat would say that you're just destructively releasing toxic PUFA into your bloodstream
to be circulated about and wreak havoc at many levels--cellular, glandular, hormonal, etc.

One thing in particular about your quote above, Birdie,
that made me think was this:
"‎The larger the quantity of 'toxic fat' stored in the body, the more careful the person must be about increasing metabolic and physical activity."

If you think about it, it is kinda paradoxical.
Aren't we all trying to "increase metabolic...activity"?
The quote would seem to imply that
our typical Peatian efforts to crank up our metabolism
will also incur increased dangers from PUFA...right?

I've been aware, in a way I guess, of this principle with regard to physical exercise,
which Peat says can cause stress.
And I've even been sortuv aware that exercise might release PUFA.

But I'd never thought about all the good Peatian things we do--
the diet stuff, the red light--
which increase metabolism...
...that those very things would also, conversely, risk accelerating unwanted, unhealthy PUFA release.

Maybe I'm not thinking about this correctly.
Or maybe I am, and that is why Peat urges the special supplements
like aspirin, niacinamide, coconut oil--
to help suppress the release of PUFA which is inevitable with increased metabolism...?


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Re: PUFA Detox

Unread postby narouz » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:19 pm

Here is that cool bit supplied by nwo2012 I mentioned above:

nwo2012 wrote:I asked Ray a while back about this. His answer says all I needed to know.

RP
Thyroid and sugar help the liver to detoxify them by glucuronidation, without having to oxidize them.


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