3a Androstanediol Glucuronide

[tallglass13]

Hey everyone,
Does anyone know anything about 3a diol G. I had mine tested and it is super high. I found some medical literature noting 3a Androstanediol G linked to Female balding. Of course this can be true for Males as well then. So hope some of you guys can help.

3a Androstanediol Glucuronide 2207 ng/dl ref range (251-1503 ng/d. ) HIGH
DHT 29 ng/dl ref range (16-79)
free DHT 2014 pg/ml ref range (1.00- 6.20)
progesterone 0.1 pg/dl ref range <0.2
free testosterone 58.7 pg/dl ref range (35.0- 155.0)

Pardon me @haidut, I pm'd you, I was trying to make this thread , so hopefully you can help me here, thanks

 

[haidut]

Hey everyone,
Does anyone know anything about 3a diol G. I had mine tested and it is super high. I found some medical literature noting 3a Androstanediol G linked to Female balding. Of course this can be true for Males as well then. So hope some of you guys can help.

3a Androstanediol Glucuronide 2207 ng/dl ref range (251-1503 ng/d. ) HIGH
DHT 29 ng/dl ref range (16-79)
free DHT 2014 pg/ml ref range (1.00- 6.20)
progesterone 0.1 pg/dl ref range <0.2
free testosterone 58.7 pg/dl ref range (35.0- 155.0)

Pardon me @haidut, I pm'd you, I was trying to make this thread , so hopefully you can help me here, thanks

Well, just as you found out by searching, it is typically high in both sexes when they balding. It is a sign of increased degradation of DHT, typically under the influence of estrogens, cortisol, prolactin, low thyroid, etc as all of these tend to increase both the degradation of DHT through 3a-HSD, while also inhibiting 5-AR which decreases new DHT being synthesized. As you can see your DHT close to the lower end of normal.

 

[tallglass13]

Well, just as you found out by searching, it is typically high in both sexes when they balding. It is a sign of increased degradation of DHT, typically under the influence of estrogens, cortisol, prolactin, low thyroid, etc as all of these tend to increase both the degradation of DHT through 3a-HSD, while also inhibiting 5-AR which decreases new DHT being synthesized. As you can see your DHT close to the lower end of normal.

damn man, this sucks. I am taking very low dose t3 cynomel. like 2-3 mcgs a few times daily. I know you are not a doctor and cant give advice, but do you have any other rec's. Should I up the t3. I checked my thyroid. My reverse t3 is 14. my free t3 and t4 are upper mid range.

 

[RobertJM]

Totally not relevant to the thread but I also got DHT at that exact same level (29). Even ladies probably have DHT higher than mine.
But no balding in my case. I also have the testosterone of an 80 year old man (400), but as I’ve said previously on the forum I have very male characteristics (huge shoulders, muscles, thick facial hair and a very deep voice). Maybe I have high progesterone. Something is protecting my hair anyway. It started to recede slightly in my early twenties, but then I got into health and nutrition (and through diet alone I presume), the receding stopped completely and has never receded since. I’m 37 now.

 

[haidut]

damn man, this sucks. I am taking very low dose t3 cynomel. like 2-3 mcgs a few times daily. I know you are not a doctor and cant give advice, but do you have any other rec's. Should I up the t3. I checked my thyroid. My reverse t3 is 14. my free t3 and t4 are upper mid range.

Aspirin, nicotine and even niacinamide inhibit 3a-HSD but the breakdown is probably due to low metabolism so upping thyroid may be a better option.

 

[Xemnoraq]

So the question here would arise, if DHT is cappable of converting into estrogenic metabolites, would supplementing DHT or androsterone (if under stress) actually raise estrogen more?? It seems quite confusing because the steroids themselves all inhibit aromatase/prolactin etc to such a high degree but then have this cappability of degrading into metabolites that seem to promote stress, it doesn’t seem like progesterone though has at least some of these effects, Peat mentioned in a podcast i saw recently he addressed the concern of progesterone converting into cortisol and he said likely not, he said the more progesterone you have the less likely you are to dip into cortisol production,

So hormones can be kind of confusing sometimes and when it comes to DHT and its estrogenic metabolites, is the solution to prevent that just up the dose? Supplement other hormones to negate this by balancing the hormonal profile widespread such as pregnenolone/progesterone, or as was mentioned, address the rest of stress with nutrition/vitamins etc (which yes should always be done) but it adds this sort of questioning to hormonal supplementation or sort of caution almost that has to be taken into account with 5ar derived steroids, at least it seems?

Being a reductive state shifts things like DHT to it’s estrogenic metabolites but things like DHT and DHEA positively shift the redox balance? So it’s all a little confusing i guess

 

[Xemnoraq]

LOL maybe the real answer to this question is just kick PUFA the f*ck out of the system as it pushes everything to an estrogenic rather than androgenic state, MAYBE just maybe it’s high FFA acids that are pushing some of the hormones towards their estrogenic metabolites, and simply TAKING the hormones to control estrogen and lipolysis isn’t enough to actually fully suppress the lipolysis, and Georgi i think you spoke about something similar like this with Ray, i remember you asked him if it would be worth lowering lipolysis with things like niacinamide when taking thyroid because high FFA can interfere with the ability to properly respond to thyroid so maybe the answer to why DHT can be shifted over to the androstanediols has alot to do with the level of FFA’s in the blood, and sometimes taking even powerful hormones that DO shift the redox balance and DO lower estrogen, maybe sometimes it’s simply not enough to bring lipolysis under control and that’s where the bigger picture like you said Georgi comes in with remembering the whole picture of health such as the NAD/NADH ratio, the levels of PDH, the b-vitamins, FFA’s etc

Damn PUFA’s

 

[Xemnoraq]

And maybe this is why peoples body’s are more resistant to hormonal supplementation with age as the accumulation of PUFA chronically intereferes with being able to stay in an androgenic state even in the presence of androgenic hormones so PUFA really is a pervasive toxin