Low Toxin Lifestyle A Reply to @Hans Regarding #5 in a Recent Newsletter He Sent Out

[charlie]

@Hans, regarding #5 of your recent newsletter. The person usually fairly quickly starts to feel better because the "vitamin A" is able to be cleared from the blood. Since the intoxing has stopped, the liver is able to clear out the blood of the "vitamin A". This is known as the honeymoon phase. Then, once the body senses stability, and the intoxing has stopped, it will then start dumping the "vitamin A" along with other toxins. This honeymoon phase can last days, weeks, sometimes months. But then the detox events will start up and these come in waves.

And like you said, you are not far off from the low toxin groups from what the rest of your newsletters conveys. You readily admit many people do not do well on dairy, its because dairy is inherently toxic and just because some people can handle it does not mean its not toxic. Have you read Grant Gernereuxs books?

 

[charlie]

On point #1 you are saying the low "vitamin A" diet is a low toxin diet. Well yeh, that is what we are aiming for! Our livers are inundated with toxins everywhere. We need our diet to be as least toxic as possible. So the low vA diet according to your statement is probably the best diet on the planet, because it is a low toxin diet.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah it is absolutely not just getting enough protein. My family consumes red meat and chicken on a daily basis for many yrs. We aren't protein starved. I was eating mainly meat and juice for breakfast and while this gave some energy and ability to go hours without eating again my digestion continued to decline yr after yr.

 

[Hans]

Have you read Grant Gernereuxs books?

Yes, I've read both of Grant's books and will be doing an in-depth video to cover all my thoughts on everything (sometime soon). This is definitely not just a "black and white" topic, and even though it's not something I would recommend for everyone, I won't deny that there are certain people (especially with certain (severe) health conditions) that can (possibly) benefit greatly from a low vitamin A diet. Which should of course still entail eliminating all other gut-irritating foods, focusing on consuming nutrient-dense foods, etc. But I'll definitely be more elaborate/thorough and conclusive in my video to cover everything.

You readily admit many people do not do well on dairy, its because dairy is inherently toxic and just because some people can handle it does not mean its not toxic.

In my experience of research and working with clients, most people who are sensitive to dairy can actually tolerate A2 milk or raw milk perfectly fine.
Only very few people can't tolerate milk (in any form). So I can't say I agree with milk being a toxin; I personally regard it as more of a superfood. The milk diet cured hundreds (if not thousands) of people with severe health conditions. There's a whole book on it...

But if someone doesn't tolerate milk, I wouldn't push them to consume something they don't do well on. However, from my experience, it's usually always a gut issue. This can, in most cases, be resolved by focusing on calming the immune system and fixing gut dysbiosis.

Yeah it is absolutely not just getting enough protein. My family consumes red meat and chicken on a daily basis for many yrs. We aren't protein starved. I was eating mainly meat and juice for breakfast and while this gave some energy and ability to go hours without eating again my digestion continued to decline yr after yr.

It's hardly ever low protein alone that is the problem. Nutritional deficiencies and other food toxins (not just vitamin A) should always be addressed.

 

[Ismail]

Yes, I've read both of Grant's books and will be doing an in-depth video to cover all my thoughts on everything (sometime soon). This is definitely not just a "black and white" topic, and even though it's not something I would recommend for everyone, I won't deny that there are certain people (especially with certain (severe) health conditions) that can (possibly) benefit greatly from a low vitamin A diet. Which should of course still entail eliminating all other gut-irritating foods, focusing on consuming nutrient-dense foods, etc. But I'll definitely be more elaborate/thorough and conclusive in my video to cover everything.


In my experience of research and working with clients, most people who are sensitive to dairy can actually tolerate A2 milk or raw milk perfectly fine.
Only very few people can't tolerate milk (in any form). So I can't say I agree with milk being a toxin; I personally regard it as more of a superfood. The milk diet cured hundreds (if not thousands) of people with severe health conditions. There's a whole book on it...

But if someone doesn't tolerate milk, I wouldn't push them to consume something they don't do well on. However, from my experience, it's usually always a gut issue. This can, in most cases, be resolved by focusing on calming the immune system and fixing gut dysbiosis.


It's hardly ever low protein alone that is the problem. Nutritional deficiencies and other food toxins (not just vitamin A) should always be addressed.

Extremely balanced answer; can’t wait for the video

 

[Soren]

Yes, I've read both of Grant's books and will be doing an in-depth video to cover all my thoughts on everything (sometime soon). This is definitely not just a "black and white" topic, and even though it's not something I would recommend for everyone, I won't deny that there are certain people (especially with certain (severe) health conditions) that can (possibly) benefit greatly from a low vitamin A diet. Which should of course still entail eliminating all other gut-irritating foods, focusing on consuming nutrient-dense foods, etc. But I'll definitely be more elaborate/thorough and conclusive in my video to cover everything.


In my experience of research and working with clients, most people who are sensitive to dairy can actually tolerate A2 milk or raw milk perfectly fine.
Only very few people can't tolerate milk (in any form). So I can't say I agree with milk being a toxin; I personally regard it as more of a superfood. The milk diet cured hundreds (if not thousands) of people with severe health conditions. There's a whole book on it...

But if someone doesn't tolerate milk, I wouldn't push them to consume something they don't do well on. However, from my experience, it's usually always a gut issue. This can, in most cases, be resolved by focusing on calming the immune system and fixing gut dysbiosis.


It's hardly ever low protein alone that is the problem. Nutritional deficiencies and other food toxins (not just vitamin A) should always be addressed.

Thank you Hans for this response, very much looking forward to your video covering this. I am far from convinced that Vitamin A is the cause of all problems and would value your opinion and observations.

 

[charlie]

es, I've read both of Grant's books and will be doing an in-depth video to cover all my thoughts on everything (sometime soon). This is definitely not just a "black and white" topic, and even though it's not something I would recommend for everyone, I won't deny that there are certain people (especially with certain (severe) health conditions) that can (possibly) benefit greatly from a low vitamin A diet.

@Hans, have you read the post below?

Low Toxin Studies - The Vitamin A Research of Anthony Mawson PhD

Wow. I'm one who actually tried the protocol a few years ago. I don't do anything halfway and neither my husband nor I noticed any changes, good or bad. How long did you do it? Did you do the mineral support? Did you test and address your deficiencies? Sitting here and constantly refuting is...

raypeatforum.com

And this?

Low Toxin Diet - Simple steps to transition to a Low Toxin Diet/Way of Living

@mosaic01 Where are the Pubmed studies that prove that vit A is bad for liver studies? Without RCT this theory is worthless

raypeatforum.com

Even if "vitamin A" is needed in the body, it is needed in such small amounts that avoiding "vitamin A" as best as possible will clearly give good results due to the accumulation effects of it being a fat soluble. You seem like you are trying to complicate things, there is no need to do that now as people are being released from this captivity. It has been made simple and yes it is black and white, avoiding "vitamin A" will produce great results for your health. You can clearly offer no solid advice on this subject because you have not applied the knowledge correctly. Trying it for a short stint is not gonna yield the results that doing it for multiple years correctly will do. So your position is one of ignorance, mine is not. I am there, and living it and thriving from it along with many more people and a lot of them are Ray Peat toxic diet refugees and I am sure people are being harmed from your diet suggestions too especially if the workout drink you suggest is true. If you have not tested the low toxin and low A diet and mineral repletion for at least a couple years to get the benefits then you cannot offer any practical advice on whether it is good for people are not, because you have not witnessed it, you are only going on your beliefs, not reality. What we are doing now, has not been done in the history of mankind. And mankind is very sick right now, and very diseased. Avoiding "vitamin A" and other toxins fixes this, plain and simple no need to complicate things anymore. It's so simple even sick people can grasp onto it and heal.

 

[CastorTroy]

In my experience of research and working with clients, most people who are sensitive to dairy can actually tolerate A2 milk or raw milk perfectly fine.
Only very few people can't tolerate milk (in any form). So I can't say I agree with milk being a toxin; I personally regard it as more of a superfood. The milk diet cured hundreds (if not thousands) of people with severe health conditions. There's a whole book on it...

One of Peat's advices I feel it benefited me the most is emphasis on milk. I had always been taking dairy on any of its forms previously, but since I found Peat 10 years ago, I stepped up milk (fresh, non homogeinized) intake to a quart a day. Energy and overall well-being just improved over all this years. I'm also getting 2 raw egg yolks a day, which I think it adds to this effect. So I have to agree with you on this. Even if I don't like the label "superfood", I'd say organic, fresh milk, is the closer to it from a nutrition point of view. (unless someone got allergic to it or lactose intolerant of course).

 

[charlie]

One of Peat's advices I feel it benefited me the most is emphasis on milk. I had always been taking dairy on any of its forms previously, but since I found Peat 10 years ago, I stepped up milk (fresh, non homogeinized) intake to a quart a day. Energy and overall well-being just improved over all this years. I'm also getting 2 raw egg yolks a day, which I think it adds to this effect. So I have to agree with you on this. Even if I don't like the label "superfood", I'd say organic, fresh milk, is the closer to it from a nutrition point of view. (unless someone got allergic to it or lactose intolerant of course).

You can still feel good while "vitamin A" is accumulating in the liver, I did. A car works until it is broken, same thing for people. Anthony Mawson talks of the "vitamin A" cascade, everything looks great and then boom. The fires of hell are unleashed.

 

[CastorTroy]

You can still feel good while "vitamin A" is accumulating in the liver, I did. A car works until it is broken, same thing for people. Anthony Mawson talks of the "vitamin A" cascade, everything looks great and then boom. The fires of hell are unleashed.

I don't think so, rather the reason fresh unprocessed milk being such an excepcional "superfood" and health charger. But you know what? time will tell. Time has the answer to everything. I'll just keep following my instinct, as I'm sure you do with yours.

 

[charlie]

don't think so, rather the reason fresh unprocessed milk being such an excepcional "superfood" and health charger.

I use to think the same too, and time did tell.

 

[Apple]

@Hans, regarding #5 of your recent newsletter. The person usually fairly quickly starts to feel better because the "vitamin A" is able to be cleared from the blood. Since the intoxing has stopped, the liver is able to clear out the blood of the "vitamin A". This is known as the honeymoon phase. Then, once the body senses stability, and the intoxing has stopped, it will then start dumping the "vitamin A" along with other toxins. This honeymoon phase can last days, weeks, sometimes months. But then the detox events will start up and these come in waves.

And like you said, you are not far off from the low toxin groups from what the rest of your newsletters conveys. You readily admit many people do not do well on dairy, its because dairy is inherently toxic and just because some people can handle it does not mean its not toxic. Have you read Grant Gernereuxs books?

Thanks @charlie for redirecting this forum , it is right time to do so. We witnessed how forum members struggled with pushing milk in their diet despite they react bad to it. Some are very stubborn , 5 - 8 - 10 years of pushing milk (of different kinds with tons of antibiotics) so one day they can proudly post on here that they finally drank a liter of milk without flatuance. And then some forum members post pictures of skin warts and rubbing MCT oil , with apparent signs of edema, carotenemia and lipofuscin. Indeed, excessive retinol intake can lead to the accumulation of lipofuscin.
Apparently, the big man himself struggled with skin problems and used to apply vit E, A, progesterone and whatnot. We all observed how he went downhill healthwise.
It looked like a competition: if you don't consume 2 quarts of milk and quart of orange juice, accompanied by 40 cups of coffee or mexican coke, you are not a true peatarian. And then you are forced to go down the rabbit hole: need for laxatives, thyroid, progesterone, megadoses of thiamin , caffeine, aspirin , etc. You end up with the cupboard full of supplements like a grandma.
Such a relief that we can be healthy again without this food/supplements madness.

 

[Abundant Life]

You end up with the cupboard full of supplements like a grandma.
Such a relief that we can be healthy again without this food/supplements madness.

That is totally me right now!

I threw out non-methylated B12 and Ascorbic Acid Vitamin C last week. This week I am starting to consider throwing out Vitamin A (retinol) supplements.

Carotene and retinol are different forms in food. But when it comes to blood work, do I have to measure both carotene and retinol levels to know how much Vitamin A toxicity I am currently burdened with?

 

[Soren]

You readily admit many people do not do well on dairy, its because dairy is inherently toxic and just because some people can handle it does not mean its not toxic.

I think it really is a bit of a stretch to say that dairy is inherently toxic. The same could be said about any nutrient depending on the context.

We are mammals, virtually all mammals drink milk produced from their mothers, it is actually a defining characteristic of mammals, to say that all dairy is inherently toxic just does not make any sense to me.

Furthermore it goes against a great deal of evidence. The areas of the world where people live the longest the so called "blue zones" they consume a great deal of dairy in the form of goats and sheep milk. Now some say milk from these animals is better tolerated and often goats and sheep live a much more healthy life then milk producing cows so that may be a factor but if the areas of the world where people live longer than any other regularly consume dairy I don't see how one can say that it is "inherently toxic"

 

[InChristAlone]

That is totally me right now!

I threw out non-methylated B12 and Ascorbic Acid Vitamin C last week. This week I am starting to consider throwing out Vitamin A (retinol) supplements.

Carotene and retinol are different forms in food. But when it comes to blood work, do I have to measure both carotene and retinol levels to know how much Vitamin A toxicity I am currently burdened with?

You threw out vitamin C before retinol?!! At least vitamin C could be useful for certain things. You can add it to your bathwater to eliminate chlorine. It can also be good in an emergency for sickness. Retinol is just dangerous.