Calcium and potassium increase retention of copper / magnesium and selenium depletes it?

Motif

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Is this true?

so should people with (probably ) absorption issues take copper , potassium at one day and zinc , selenium , magnesium , vitamin c on the other and repeat?


Specially people with slower digestion?
 

Dr. B

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Is this true?

so should people with (probably ) absorption issues take copper , potassium at one day and zinc , selenium , magnesium , vitamin c on the other and repeat?


Specially people with slower digestion?
where did you hear selenium depletes copper and magnesium?
 

清貴杉山

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this is too far-fetched tbh,only if you **** with supplements can have this type of unbalances,you will be neurotic af if you start thinking in this kind of things
 
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Motif

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this is too far-fetched tbh,only if you **** with supplements can have this type of unbalances,you will be neurotic af if you start thinking in this kind of things
Just trying to figure out why my levels won’t go up.
 

清貴杉山

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Dr. B

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Zinc and copper.
mate the blood tests probably don't mean anything, Ray doesnt like supplementing copper, when I tried copper out within a few weeks I had a tiny mole start to develop on my pinky toe, then after a few weeks of stopping copper it went away... unless you have a severe gut related malabsorption problem but in that case you'd be deficient in basically every mineral and many vitamins. supplementing zinc actually stimulates creation of metallothionen, once that's stimulated that just makes you excrete most of the metals you take in, thats apparently how zinc can cause copper deficiency when supplemented...

vitamin c supplements apparently deplete copper
 
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Motif

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mate the blood tests probably don't mean anything, Ray doesnt like supplementing copper, when I tried copper out within a few weeks I had a tiny mole start to develop on my pinky toe, then after a few weeks of stopping copper it went away... unless you have a severe gut related malabsorption problem but in that case you'd be deficient in basically every mineral and many vitamins. supplementing zinc actually stimulates creation of metallothionen, once that's stimulated that just makes you excrete most of the metals you take in, thats apparently how zinc can cause copper deficiency when supplemented...

vitamin c supplements apparently deplete copper
The thing is I feel improvement from taking zinc and copper. My symptoms are still bad , bad much better .

i tried zinc only for months. First days improvement , than it got super bad.

i tried copper only for months - exactly the same.

Taking both = improvement

Still the levels don’t go up. I want to know how I feel with good levels of both
 

清貴杉山

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mate the blood tests probably don't mean anything, Ray doesnt like supplementing copper, when I tried copper out within a few weeks I had a tiny mole start to develop on my pinky toe, then after a few weeks of stopping copper it went away... unless you have a severe gut related malabsorption problem but in that case you'd be deficient in basically every mineral and many vitamins. supplementing zinc actually stimulates creation of metallothionen, once that's stimulated that just makes you excrete most of the metals you take in, thats apparently how zinc can cause copper deficiency when supplemented...

vitamin c supplements apparently deplete copper
i think the same i agree on that blood tests are a waste of time and money
 

Dr. B

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The thing is I feel improvement from taking zinc and copper. My symptoms are still bad , bad much better .

i tried zinc only for months. First days improvement , than it got super bad.

i tried copper only for months - exactly the same.

Taking both = improvement

Still the levels don’t go up. I want to know how I feel with good levels of both
maybe iron excess? did you supplement iron before?
maybe eating less iron or depleting iron could cause zinc/copper to go up?
 
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Motif

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maybe iron excess? did you supplement iron before?
maybe eating less iron or depleting iron could cause zinc/copper to go up?

maybe , I don’t know. My iron and ferritin are not too high in blood tests though and would not zinc supplements lower iron ?
 
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Motif

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i think the same i agree on that blood tests are a waste of time and money
But feeling improvement immediately from taking zinc and copper is a pretty good indicator and no other supplements do that. And this compared with low blood levels of those makes sense
 
L

LauriePartridge

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I think it's a good question Motif. The study indicates that supplementing magnesium and selenium does affect absorption of copper negatively. Are you able to read the whole study? The abstract doesn't identify specific amounts which would be good to know. It would be good to find more research on this subject. But it's not uncommon at all for supplementation in general to affect absorption of other vitamins/minerals. So I'm not surprised to hear this assertion.

I was supplementing magnesium and selenium at one point and experienced unbearable mast cell/histamine issues at the same time. Histamine is complicated for sure (so not one thing is likely to make it go crazy) but I wonder now if all that supplementation reduced my copper absorption so that it affected my DAO levels and aggravated histamine.

I think you'd just have to experiment with your supplementation and see how you feel.
 

Dr. B

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I think it's a good question Motif. The study indicates that supplementing magnesium and selenium does affect absorption of copper negatively. Are you able to read the whole study? The abstract doesn't identify specific amounts which would be good to know. It would be good to find more research on this subject. But it's not uncommon at all for supplementation in general to affect absorption of other vitamins/minerals. So I'm not surprised to hear this assertion.

I was supplementing magnesium and selenium at one point and experienced unbearable mast cell/histamine issues at the same time. Histamine is complicated for sure (so not one thing is likely to make it go crazy) but I wonder now if all that supplementation reduced my copper absorption so that it affected my DAO levels and aggravated histamine.

I think you'd just have to experiment with your supplementation and see how you feel.
what about vitamin C? its a big copper antagonist, but apparently actually upregulates the DAO enzyme. seems it can help maybe in small amounts, but long term and larger amounts could deplete copper too much

by the way isn't copper one of the inflammatory metals similar to iron in some ways. and magnesium and selenium are often referred to as antioxidants. so maybe they only lower copper or iron in people who have a poor metabolism or excess of those things built up?
 
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Motif

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I think it's a good question Motif. The study indicates that supplementing magnesium and selenium does affect absorption of copper negatively. Are you able to read the whole study? The abstract doesn't identify specific amounts which would be good to know. It would be good to find more research on this subject. But it's not uncommon at all for supplementation in general to affect absorption of other vitamins/minerals. So I'm not surprised to hear this assertion.

I was supplementing magnesium and selenium at one point and experienced unbearable mast cell/histamine issues at the same time. Histamine is complicated for sure (so not one thing is likely to make it go crazy) but I wonder now if all that supplementation reduced my copper absorption so that it affected my DAO levels and aggravated histamine.

I think you'd just have to experiment with your supplementation and see how you feel.

probably the only thing we could do is experiment with it, yeah!

ill have another blood test for zinc and copper tomorrow and I’m sure it’s still low. I’m really desperate. I’ll ask my doc to give it intravenous to me
 
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LauriePartridge

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what about vitamin C? its a big copper antagonist, but apparently actually upregulates the DAO enzyme. seems it can help maybe in small amounts, but long term and larger amounts could deplete copper too much

by the way isn't copper one of the inflammatory metals similar to iron in some ways. and magnesium and selenium are often referred to as antioxidants. so maybe they only lower copper or iron in people who have a poor metabolism or excess of those things built up?
I agree completely with your thoughts on Vit C. That's been my personal experience and what I've gathered from research. It does help with DAO but it competes with copper too so that it actually can increase histamine in the long run. Vit C is a big copper antagonist for sure.

It would be interesting to get some more research about the effect of magnesium and selenium and how and in what circumstances they lower copper. Maybe your theory is right.
 

Ihor

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"Metallothionein (MT) is a family of cysteine-rich, low molecular weight (MW ranging from 500 to 14000 Da) proteins. They are localized to the membrane of the Golgi apparatus. MTs have the capacity to bind both physiological (such as zinc, copper, selenium) and xenobiotic (such as cadmium, mercury, silver, arsenic) heavy metals through the thiol group of its cysteine residues, which represent nearly 30% of its constituent amino acid residues."
"Their (MTs) production is dependent on availability of the dietary minerals such as zinc, copper, and selenium, as well as the amino acids histidine and cysteine."

Metallothionein - Wikipedia
 
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