Diet: Peat Vs. Broda Barnes

[joepotter]

Dr. Ray Peat often lauds Dr. Broda Barnes in his writings. I recently read the Barnes book called "Hypothyroidism: The Unsuspected Illness".

In this book, Dr. Barnes surprised me on the issue of a weight loss diet. His idea was to keep fat very high and carbs relatively low. Something like 90 grams of fat, 70 of protein, and 50 of carbs. Another person also saw it that way --- THE BARNES DIET

This diet is anti-Peat as far as I can tell.

Ray Peat seems to want protein up around 90 grams at least, and fruits filling in most of the calories and saturated fats only. (over simplification I know) Peat also seems to recommend against going to the low calorie diet as above which calculates to only 1290 calories or so. Ray peat would have me never restrict calories unless I have misunderstood him.

So, I am confused. I gained about 40 pounds doing the "Peat thing" and need to get it back off. I started for heart health and the diet really, really helped. But I need to get some weight off.

Can someone please "un-confuse" me?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Why did you continue to gain up to 40 lbs. instead of reassessing after 10 lbs? What milk fat % were you drinking and how much cheese and ice cream did you eat?

 

[superhuman]

First off "Peat thing" did not make you gain 40 lbs. Your interpretation of RP and your overeating made you gain 40 lbs, it has nothing to do with RP or "Peating"

 

[artist]

I know a lot of people gain weight in the process of adopting Peat type protocols in the hopes of later reaching an equilibrium once metabolism is restored, but obviously there are a lot of variables there. Personally I think it's just snotty to wag the finger at health-impaired people for "overeating" (let me guess, superhuman based that on no knowledge of how much this guy is actually eating) and start moralizing when our dear lord and savior Peat himself has discussed eating up to 8000 calories and normally eating 4000. Dollars to donuts, @joepotter didn't gain 40 pounds through an 8000 calorie diet, but he can correct me if I'm wrong. So his actual crime is not having a god-tier metabolism. I do think it's best to avoid fat gain, isn't that why he's here asking how to do that? Secondly, people like to pull this no true scotsman nonsense with the dismissal of a Peat diet but Ray recommends the same things over and over in his emails and has discussed what he himself eats, I think it's fair to say that there's a Peat diet and not be so pedantic just to protect Peat's rep. He's not running a smear campaign, he's asking for advice. Let me guess OP, you drank milk, juice, ate fruit, gelatin, cheese and eggs. With that said, I do think fat as a percentage of calories is the first place you should look. My own experience and what I see repeated over and over here is that the people who maintain or lose weight the best following Peat advice are those that keep fat extra low and carbs high. Congrats on sorting out your heart issues

 

[Ahanu]

In this book, Dr. Barnes surprised me on the issue of a weight loss diet. His idea was to keep fat very high and carbs relatively low.

This is interesting. Thank you. I always wanted to read broda Barnes but never did. This is a surprise.

 

[cantstoppeating]

It is extremely difficult to control appetite on 1% milk and OJ, especially when aiming for a caloric deficit no matter how small.

Barnes' recommendation of that diet isn't only about controlling hypothyroidism but also about controlling appetite. He gives examples of how farmers fatten up their pigs: constant feedings of low-fat, high-carbohydrate foods. How he himself experimented with different ratios of carbs and fats and found that he could eat more on a higher-fat and lower-carbohydrate diet and still maintain his weight.

 

[Velve921]

I have read Dr. Barnes book as well. i found the brilliance in his work was showing the association of a poor metabolism with most major illnesses.The majority of the book discussed his experience with using thyroid hormone supplementation to cure patients of their metabolic issues. It did not appear in the book that his best experiences came from nutritional expertuse but that thyroid hormone supplementation can help people get back on the right track. He also shared all his experiences with measuring temperature and heart rate to demonstrate hypothyroidism. Those are the key points I found which seems to support Dr. Peats views on the topic of hypothyroism and metabolic derangement.

 

[joepotter]

I know a lot of people gain weight in the process of adopting Peat type protocols in the hopes of later reaching an equilibrium once metabolism is restored, but obviously there are a lot of variables there. Personally I think it's just snotty to wag the finger at health-impaired people for "overeating" (let me guess, superhuman based that on no knowledge of how much this guy is actually eating) and start moralizing when our dear lord and savior Peat himself has discussed eating up to 8000 calories and normally eating 4000. Dollars to donuts, @joepotter didn't gain 40 pounds through an 8000 calorie diet, but he can correct me if I'm wrong. So his actual crime is not having a god-tier metabolism. I do think it's best to avoid fat gain, isn't that why he's here asking how to do that? Secondly, people like to pull this no true scotsman nonsense with the dismissal of a Peat diet but Ray recommends the same things over and over in his emails and has discussed what he himself eats, I think it's fair to say that there's a Peat diet and not be so pedantic just to protect Peat's rep. He's not running a smear campaign, he's asking for advice. Let me guess OP, you drank milk, juice, ate fruit, gelatin, cheese and eggs. With that said, I do think fat as a percentage of calories is the first place you should look. My own experience and what I see repeated over and over here is that the people who maintain or lose weight the best following Peat advice are those that keep fat extra low and carbs high. Congrats on sorting out your heart issues

You are very close. I was working on the heart only. I had an "incident" last summer and my pulse pressure was always near 70 which is horrific. I also had a large jump in blood pressure and the blood pressure was highly erratic. Obviously, weight was not my main concern at that time.

I consumed huge quantities of coconut oil and things cooked in coconut oil. I eat potatoes smothered in butter or coconut oil. I eat oysters and shrimp and beef liver. I sauteed veggies in coconut oil. I drank whole milk and eat a ton of cheese. And fruit --- loads of fruit.

Within about two months, my heart was near perfect according to the numbers. In the evening at 6:30 after resting for 30 minutes I average about 130/85 with a pulse rate of 85 to 90 (average 88 or so). The pulse-pressure is almost always between 40 and 50 with the average at 45. I figure my heart is now much better than most 64 year old men --- and that given a heart attack last summer.

So, after the heart numbers started to suit me, I went to skim milk and low fat cheese and reduced the butter a bit. The weight gain stopped, but I am sitting at a 240 and had been at 200 for the last decade or so. Now is time to shed some weight <b>without</b> doing any damage to the hormonal balance that could injure my heart via causing thyroid problems.

And why is the Barnes idea of weight loss so different from Peat? Or is it? Perhaps I am missing something.

PS: snarky BS don't bother me any but it is not exactly helpful.

The question was simple. How to get the weight off without screwing up my health in any way.

 

[docall18]

Like a lot of people on this forum report, I also gained weight on the 'Peat diet', having been slim all my life.

I think the major issue is that fruit/juice/carbs dont fill you up and you end up eating too much. I already eat approx 150g protein, might up this and reduce carbs to see if it controls appetite.

 

[welshwing]

Hi, I gained weight fast at first too. It was from eating butter like you have. Just eat satiating foods that are low fat like a big potato with every meal without butter.

 

[XPlus]

I tend to do better tone-wise when I have moderate fat in the diet.
Low fat is achievable when stress is low and clean food is plentiful.
Like when you're on vacation and have all the time in the world to rest and prepare good food from scratch. Otherwise, it's difficult to maintain this on a modern lifestyle.
Who has the time and energy to buy, clean, juice and filter fresh fruits after a long day at work.
A tub of ice cream is often more convenient.
Striving for an optimal low fat diet could be very stressful on its own.
Very low fat is counterproductive, especially if you have a lot of health-fixing to do.

 

[cantstoppeating]

For those of you who don't have the book, here's the chapter where Barnes talks about diet and obesity.

 

[Ahanu]

For those of you who don't have the book, here's the chapter where Barnes talks about diet and obesity.

thank you very much!!!

 

[Ahanu]

this seems so different to the suggestions usually here??

 

[cantstoppeating]

 

[cantstoppeating]

 

[XPlus]

For those of you who don't have the book, here's the chapter where Barnes talks about diet and obesity.

Thanks for sharing, csp.
It's interesting to see Broda's take on obesity. It's more or less the modern day low carb diet. Fat loss is achieved through ketosis.

 

[cantstoppeating]

Missing page 272:

 

[XPlus]

View attachment 2932

I just read the other part of the chapter where he talks about ketosis.
He mentions that 50gm of cabs prevents ketosis but how exactly fat loss occurs on his proposed diet plan

 

[jyb]

I just read the other part of the chapter where he talks about ketosis.
He mentions that 50gm of cabs prevents ketosis but how exactly fat loss occurs on his proposed diet plan

50grams carbs can be well enough to prevent ketosis, and that was on a calorie reduced diet for his fat subjects (so it would be more than 50grams on a 2500 calories diet). However insulin would not be very high, so fatty acids are oxidised not stored.