SO. CONFUSED. Sodium/Potassium Ratio, Mineral Balance

[JohnBonham]

Does Potassium deplete Sodium?

Does Sodium Deplete Potassium?

Does Magnesium deplete sodium?

I know salt lowers aldosterone, but I've also seen rat studies that show that a bunch of salt actually raises aldosterone. This makes no sense.

Is there an optimal ratio? I know Peat says that as long as alkaline mineral intake is high you should be fine, but I don't believe that due to personal experience. For instance, potassium makes my muscles twitch, and salt gets rid of the twitching within 15 minutes. I've tried it a dozen times over the last year. Also my kidney function is great–no issue there. But potassium by itself makes me feel energetic and lively until the twitching starts.

If I were deficient in sodium, potassium, and magnesium altogether, how could I fix them all? It seems like one mineral always depletes another!

 

[Ulysses]

Can you post one of these rat studies you've read showing that salt raises aldosterone?

 

[JohnBonham]

Can you post one of these rat studies you've read showing that salt raises aldosterone?

Aldosterone/salt induces renal inflammation and fibrosis in hypertensive rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Actually, I think I was mistaken. I believe they gave the rats both aldosterone and sodium chloride. When I saw it the first time I thought it was just salt by itself.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Do you also supplement with taurine? I've noted taurine helps to prevent the muscle twitches, which makes sense as it plays some role in cellular mineral transport.

 

[JohnBonham]

Do you also supplement with taurine? I've noted taurine helps to prevent the muscle twitches, which makes sense as it plays some role in cellular mineral transport.

Yes, it seems as if Taurine is not the issue for me. I know sodium gets rid of the twitches. I just want to know if sodium depletes potassium and vice versa. Also if magnesium depletes sodium.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

My understanding is that taking extra sodium should generally help with the retention of other essential minerals. I think what mainly depletes sodium is over-hydrating, alcohol, urination, sweating, diarrhea; I'm not sure of there being any mineral that depletes sodium... Sodium will deplete potassium to an extent.

 

[JohnBonham]

My understanding is that taking extra sodium should help with the retention of other essential minerals. I think what mainly depletes sodium is over-hydrating, alcohol, urination, sweating, diarrhea; I'm not sure of there being any mineral that depletes sodium... Sodium will deplete potassium to an extent.

It's just confusing, because taking potassium chloride will make my muscle twitching worse within 20 minutes, and then taking a teaspoon of salt in water makes them better in about the same amount of time! I just assumed the potassium was depleting the sodium. I believe I've seen some studies where high potassium intake caused more sodium to be lost in urine.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

How much potassium are you taking in one go?

 

[JohnBonham]

How much potassium are you taking in one go?

The amount doesn't seem to matter much–high potassium foods like milk and orange juice will start the twitching as well as the potassium chloride.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

If you are getting the twitch from orange juice which has a decent balance of minerals - my guess is you are low salt on salt in general.

 

[JohnBonham]

If you are getting the twitch from orange juice which has a decent balance of minerals - my guess is you are low salt on salt in general.

Is there ever a situation where salt can deplete potassium? I read that in an article a while back, I can’t find it anymore. Plus, if you type in “sodium depletes potassium” in quotes on Google, you get all sorts of people saying that.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Yes sodium can deplete potassium, but if you are low on sodium it isn't really going to be that drastic, the body is pretty intelligent when it comes to conserving things. I think you need to get your sodium levels up first before you can replenish the other minerals very reliably.

Daily I get around 4 grams of sodium and around 8 grams potassium. However if I had been only getting a gram of sodium a day, and then decided to drink a lot of orange juice or have a couple bananas, I'd probably experience some twitching.

 

[mmb82]

What does your calcium and vitamin D intake look like, i.e. are you on a vitamin D supplement or ingesting >1 g of calcium daily?

I ask because calcium is another mineral that you should consider when looking at sodium and potassium. If you have high vitamin D levels, it will increase calcium absorption (and potentially storage) which will drive your potassium levels down. Your body will try to balance out sodium and potassium, so if your potassium levels have bottomed out, your sodium levels will as well. Magnesium is also important if you have high calcium levels because it helps to keep calcium from crystallizing in soft tissue. All four minerals affect each other, so if you don't consider what your calcium and magnesium levels are, you may be spinning your wheels only focusing on sodium and potassium.

Hypothetically, if you are someone who takes vitamin D and/or a calcium supplement, your twitching issue may be in excess calcium. Until you fix elevated calcium, your potassium and sodium issues will not go away.

 

[JohnBonham]

Yes sodium can deplete potassium, but if you are low on sodium it isn't really going to be that drastic, the body is pretty intelligent when it comes to conserving things. I think you need to get your sodium levels up first before you can replenish the other minerals very reliably.

Daily I get around 4 grams of sodium and around 8 grams potassium. However if I had been only getting a gram of sodium a day, and then decided to drink a lot of orange juice or have a couple bananas, I'd probably experience some twitching.

Thanks so much for the info. So, essentially, one should get more potassium than sodium? Since you're at a 1:2 sodium/potassium ratio, is that what I should shoot for?

 

[JohnBonham]

What does your calcium and vitamin D intake look like, i.e. are you on a vitamin D supplement or ingesting >1 g of calcium daily?

I ask because calcium is another mineral that you should consider when looking at sodium and potassium. If you have high vitamin D levels, it will increase calcium absorption (and potentially storage) which will drive your potassium levels down. Your body will try to balance out sodium and potassium, so if your potassium levels have bottomed out, your sodium levels will as well. Magnesium is also important if you have high calcium levels because it helps to keep calcium from crystallizing in soft tissue. All four minerals affect each other, so if you don't consider what your calcium and magnesium levels are, you may be spinning your wheels only focusing on sodium and potassium.

Hypothetically, if you are someone who takes vitamin D and/or a calcium supplement, your twitching issue may be in excess calcium. Until you fix elevated calcium, your potassium and sodium issues will not go away.

I don't do well with high calcium intake. I would make a bet that my sodium/potassium/magnesium levels are all low due to twitching/water retention/ and the fact that I benefit from all three. I'm just confused as to how I could correct all three, because potassium apparently depletes sodium and vice versa, and magnesium supposedly drives down sodium. It's seems like an exercise in futility.

 

[mmb82]

I don't do well with high calcium intake. I would make a bet that my sodium/potassium/magnesium levels are all low due to twitching/water retention/ and the fact that I benefit from all three. I'm just confused as to how I could correct all three, because potassium apparently depletes sodium and vice versa, and magnesium supposedly drives down sodium. It's seems like an exercise in futility.

If you want to correct all three, you should find out: a) if your K, Na, and Mg are even low and b) why. A dietary deficiency in one or all of these minerals may not be the only contributing factor to why they are low or out of balance. For example, stress or other nutrient/mineral imbalances can play a role in depleting K, Mg, and/or Na. That's what I was getting at with mentioning calcium and vitamin D. If you don't correct the underlying cause, you can chase your tail trying to figure out the "perfect ratio" of K and Na to ingest and never feel better.

A hair test is probably more accurate than a blood test for this scenario, since about 90% of people fall into "normal" blood ranges of K, Na, and Ca. My guess is that you have elevated calcium that is driving your potassium down and causing problems with magnesium levels, which somewhat matches your reply that you don't do well with high calcium, but it is hard to say without any labs or tests. Have you gotten any blood and/or other tests to confirm your suspicions, considering that you have been experiencing these symptoms for about a year?

 

[Ihor]

@JohnBonham, do you have some problems with thyrid exactly with low CO2 level?