Tried Everything, Can't Get Rid Of These Symptoms

[Lee Sanderson]

I'm a long time lurker of this forum and many others. I have had the below symptoms for over 2 years now:

• Swollen/Puffy Eyes
• Horrible, thick, white coated tongue (sometimes yellow)
• Constant runny nose
• Frequent dull headaches
• Constant irritability
• Short term memory issues
• Swollen sinusus (inability to breathe properly through sinuses, especially worse at night)
• Bloating (I'm pretty lean 10-12% body fat, but always hold water/gas)
• Noisy stomach (this gets weirdly loud)
• Always tired, especially tired eyes.

Most of the above symptoms correlate, for example my eyes go worse together with the tongue coating and sinus issues and dull headaches.

I have tried every diet under the sun, very low fat ray peat diet, milk and OJ alone, fasting, GAPS, low FODMAP, candida diet, paleo, Epi-paleo.

In terms of other things I have tried that I remember (I have tried almost everything with no results):

• T3 (still use, makes me less tired and keeps temps reasonable, but not great)
• Progesterone
• Pregnenolone
• Vitamin D and K2
• Hydrogen Peroxide
• Turpentine
• Candida Complexes
• Nystatin
• Antibiotics
• Enemas
• Sodium Bicarbonate
• Lots of sea salt
• ACV
• Fulvic Acid
• Lots of different Magnesium
• Epsom Salt baths
• Oil of Oregano
• Sodium Thiosulfate
• Iodine
• Flowers of Sulphur
• Different Amino Acids

There are probably more, but this covers most that i have tried for a while.

Although it's a long shot and I feel as though there's pretty much no hope. I am keeping my fingers crossed that there may be someone who can help.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

You need a paradigm shift

 

[redsun]

I'm a long time lurker of this forum and many others. I have had the below symptoms for over 2 years now:

• Swollen/Puffy Eyes
• Horrible, thick, white coated tongue (sometimes yellow)
• Constant runny nose
• Frequent dull headaches
• Constant irritability
• Short term memory issues
• Swollen sinusus (inability to breathe properly through sinuses, especially worse at night)
• Bloating (I'm pretty lean 10-12% body fat, but always hold water/gas)
• Noisy stomach (this gets weirdly loud)
• Always tired, especially tired eyes.

Most of the above symptoms correlate, for example my eyes go worse together with the tongue coating and sinus issues and dull headaches.

I have tried every diet under the sun, very low fat ray peat diet, milk and OJ alone, fasting, GAPS, low FODMAP, candida diet, paleo, Epi-paleo.

In terms of other things I have tried that I remember (I have tried almost everything with no results):

• T3 (still use, makes me less tired and keeps temps reasonable, but not great)
• Progesterone
• Pregnenolone
• Vitamin D and K2
• Hydrogen Peroxide
• Turpentine
• Candida Complexes
• Nystatin
• Antibiotics
• Enemas
• Sodium Bicarbonate
• Lots of sea salt
• ACV
• Fulvic Acid
• Lots of different Magnesium
• Epsom Salt baths
• Oil of Oregano
• Sodium Thiosulfate
• Iodine
• Flowers of Sulphur
• Different Amino Acids

There are probably more, but this covers most that i have tried for a while.

Although it's a long shot and I feel as though there's pretty much no hope. I am keeping my fingers crossed that there may be someone who can help.

Do you eat liver?

 

[johnwester130]

antihistamines may help. none were in your list of things you tried

lifestyle changes such as more sunlight, fresher air, learning a new language, taking up a new hobby can sometimes resolve unexpected blockages in the body even if they are physical

 

[Lee Sanderson]

Do you eat liver?

No, actually I have tried it once or twice and found it hard to stomach, any advice on that?

I do eat quite a lot of Oysters for minerals. Do you think liver is much better?

 

[Lee Sanderson]

antihistamines may help. none were in your list of things you tried

lifestyle changes such as more sunlight, fresher air, learning a new language, taking up a new hobby can sometimes resolve unexpected blockages in the body even if they are physical

I live in the UK, but do get as much sun as possible and use blue blocking glasses at night (which have definitely helped my sleep). I walk around 15k+ steps per day in as much light as possible. It's weird as I never suffer from fatigue, more tiredness if that makes sense. A bit like my body can go on, but my eyes and brain want to go to sleep.

I will try anti-histamines, I have never taken that route. I have tried cysteine and histidine, as per a protocol on Hackstasis, but never seen any difference at all.

 

[redsun]

No, actually I have tried it once or twice and found it hard to stomach, any advice on that?

I do eat quite a lot of Oysters for minerals. Do you think liver is much better?

Oysters are great. But liver has many nutrients that can help reduce histamine which seems to be an issue for you based on your symptoms. Very high in copper and methylating vitamins. It may help you. I would try and eat it and see if it improves. I think calf liver is better than beef liver as it has more zinc in it as well and less copper. Tastes isnt as bad with calf. Very small bites with plenty of buttered rice works for me. Sugar of some kind may also help.

Should help with energy as well by raising catecholamines.

 

[redsun]

It's weird as I never suffer from fatigue, more tiredness if that makes sense. A bit like my body can go on, but my eyes and brain want to go to sleep.

May be lacking in neurotransmitters responsible for wakefulness and awareness which actually goes against the idea that you have high histamine. If your zinc intake is too high from oysters it can be a overall downer to the CNS which you do not want. How much zinc do you get daily from them? Zinc supplements if you take too much can give something similar to hypersomnia but because oysters are insanely high in zinc it can act the same way. Again it depends on how much you are getting.

 

[Markus]

Sounds a lot like copper:zinc-dysregulation.

 

[Jennifer]

@Lee Sanderson -- You've already tried upping your t3 dose until your temps were optimal and didn't see at least some improvement with your symptoms? If so, have you been tested for SIBO via a hydrogen breath test -- you mentioned antibiotics but I wasn't sure if this meant you were tested and given the proper antibiotics to treat hydrogen and/or methane producing bacteria?

Also, you've tried many diets but have you trialed one food at a time to see which foods you digest best? The bloating, noisy gut, sinus inflammation, headaches, brain fog and coated tongue sound like an overgrowth, which can be the result of not digesting your food well due to weak tissues. Your thyroid and adrenals seem like likely culprits, especially seeing as you're on t3 replacement.

 

[Lee Sanderson]

May be lacking in neurotransmitters responsible for wakefulness and awareness which actually goes against the idea that you have high histamine. If your zinc intake is too high from oysters it can be a overall downer to the CNS which you do not want. How much zinc do you get daily from them? Zinc supplements if you take too much can give something similar to hypersomnia but because oysters are insanely high in zinc it can act the same way. Again it depends on how much you are getting.

Just checked my Chronometer for the couple of weeks. I get 5.1mg copper per day and 51.4mg zinc per day, which is about a ratio of 10:1. I have had a hair test done a few months ago, which shown low copper to zinc ratio, but I have significantly increased copper since then, I took the copper supplements TEI recommended for a while, but just couldn't continue as they gave me racing thoughts and insomnia. Any advice on fixing copper-zinc dysregulation if it is that.

 

[Lee Sanderson]

@Lee Sanderson -- You've already tried upping your t3 dose until your temps were optimal and didn't see at least some improvement with your symptoms? If so, have you been tested for SIBO via a hydrogen breath test -- you mentioned antibiotics but I wasn't sure if this meant you were tested and given the proper antibiotics to treat hydrogen and/or methane producing bacteria?

Also, you've tried many diets but have you trialed one food at a time to see which foods you digest best? The bloating, noisy gut, sinus inflammation, headaches, brain fog and coated tongue sound like an overgrowth, which can be the result of not digesting your food well due to weak tissues. Your thyroid and adrenals seem like likely culprits, especially seeing as you're on t3 replacement.

I have done the GAPS diet and now FODMAPS, both which limited food to an almost unbearable amount. I no longer eat any grains as that was the only thing that seemed to make a reasonable difference. I have not ate grains (excluding rice every so often) for 4 months now and do feel better for it.

In terms of the T3, I currently take 50mcg, however I have tried everything from 5mcg daily to 100mcg and noticed no benefits above 50mcg. Do you think it's worth pushing further? I should also mention I have always had low thyroid labs long before these issue became so extreme, however if I touch anything with T4 in, I get horrific symptoms, this includes NDT. Never taken anything for adrenals in particular outside of progesterone, however I have never noticed anything good or bad from this,

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Looks like you haven’t tried steak and mineral water

 

[redsun]

Just checked my Chronometer for the couple of weeks. I get 5.1mg copper per day and 51.4mg zinc per day, which is about a ratio of 10:1. I have had a hair test done a few months ago, which shown low copper to zinc ratio, but I have significantly increased copper since then, I took the copper supplements TEI recommended for a while, but just couldn't continue as they gave me racing thoughts and insomnia. Any advice on fixing copper-zinc dysregulation if it is that.

Yeh that is a massive amount of zinc if you do get that much everyday. If copper is at 5mg and zinc at 50mg, what is iron intake and what foods is it coming from? Zinc will reduce iron with time which is problematic. Can explain fatigue, irritability, and memory issues. In the past when I used to take that much zinc as you take as a supplement it gives me quite a bit of fatigue. Excessive zinc intake will reduce conversion of dopamine to noradrenaline drastically (too much), reduce glutamate, and basically forcibly reduce the sympathetic nervous system's activity and the parasympathetic nervous system will dominate which will increase inflammation and other issues, and cause fatigue and mental problems.

 

[Hans]

I'm a long time lurker of this forum and many others. I have had the below symptoms for over 2 years now:

• Swollen/Puffy Eyes
• Horrible, thick, white coated tongue (sometimes yellow)
• Constant runny nose
• Frequent dull headaches
• Constant irritability
• Short term memory issues
• Swollen sinusus (inability to breathe properly through sinuses, especially worse at night)
• Bloating (I'm pretty lean 10-12% body fat, but always hold water/gas)
• Noisy stomach (this gets weirdly loud)
• Always tired, especially tired eyes.

Most of the above symptoms correlate, for example my eyes go worse together with the tongue coating and sinus issues and dull headaches.

I have tried every diet under the sun, very low fat ray peat diet, milk and OJ alone, fasting, GAPS, low FODMAP, candida diet, paleo, Epi-paleo.

In terms of other things I have tried that I remember (I have tried almost everything with no results):

• T3 (still use, makes me less tired and keeps temps reasonable, but not great)
• Progesterone
• Pregnenolone
• Vitamin D and K2
• Hydrogen Peroxide
• Turpentine
• Candida Complexes
• Nystatin
• Antibiotics
• Enemas
• Sodium Bicarbonate
• Lots of sea salt
• ACV
• Fulvic Acid
• Lots of different Magnesium
• Epsom Salt baths
• Oil of Oregano
• Sodium Thiosulfate
• Iodine
• Flowers of Sulphur
• Different Amino Acids

There are probably more, but this covers most that i have tried for a while.

Although it's a long shot and I feel as though there's pretty much no hope. I am keeping my fingers crossed that there may be someone who can help.

It does sound a lot like high histamine like mentioned already.
What is your diet like currently?
Are you stressed?
Do you life in a high EMF environment?
Do you get out a lot and do earthing and get sunlight?
How are your bowel movements?
There are extreme things that you can do that might be very therapeutic, such as carnivore diet with muscle meat, organ meat and honey while using digestive enzymes and doing daily coffee enemas.

 

[Jennifer]

I have done the GAPS diet and now FODMAPS, both which limited food to an almost unbearable amount. I no longer eat any grains as that was the only thing that seemed to make a reasonable difference. I have not ate grains (excluding rice every so often) for 4 months now and do feel better for it.

In terms of the T3, I currently take 50mcg, however I have tried everything from 5mcg daily to 100mcg and noticed no benefits above 50mcg. Do you think it's worth pushing further? I should also mention I have always had low thyroid labs long before these issue became so extreme, however if I touch anything with T4 in, I get horrific symptoms, this includes NDT. Never taken anything for adrenals in particular outside of progesterone, however I have never noticed anything good or bad from this,

Yeah, they do limit foods to unbearable amounts, and it's even worse if you don't actually like those foods. One of the problems with these diets/protocols is that not everyone tolerates even the foods that are thought to be the least problematic or most healing. For example, not everyone tolerates probiotics (especially with SIBO) and stocks but if I remember correctly, these are in phase one of GAPS introductory diet.

I asked if you've been tested for SIBO because it's extremely common in those with hypothyroidism and can cause a self-perpetuating cycle where it can lower thyroid function and low thyroid function can fuel an overgrowth and cause all kinds of food and other intolerances. If you didn't see an improvement above 50mcg of t3 but still struggle with low thyroid symptoms, it could be a factor. Overgrowths can also contribute to liver issues. Liver issues might be why you don't tolerate T4 or feel a benefit going above 50mcg of t3 a day. How are your liver and reverse t3 numbers?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

What are you eating?
Any type of infected Food which could give you the goofy tongue?

 

[achillea]

If I were you I would try high dose thiamine. It seems to be associated with mystery illnesses. Look at the thread
Solved? - IBS, SIBO, GERD, LPR, Colitis, Constipation, Celiac, Brain Fog

also

Unraveling Symptoms and Syndromes - Hormones Matter

 

[Vinny]

I'm a long time lurker of this forum and many others. I have had the below symptoms for over 2 years now:

• Swollen/Puffy Eyes
• Horrible, thick, white coated tongue (sometimes yellow)
• Constant runny nose
• Frequent dull headaches
• Constant irritability
• Short term memory issues
• Swollen sinusus (inability to breathe properly through sinuses, especially worse at night)
• Bloating (I'm pretty lean 10-12% body fat, but always hold water/gas)
• Noisy stomach (this gets weirdly loud)
• Always tired, especially tired eyes.

Most of the above symptoms correlate, for example my eyes go worse together with the tongue coating and sinus issues and dull headaches.

I have tried every diet under the sun, very low fat ray peat diet, milk and OJ alone, fasting, GAPS, low FODMAP, candida diet, paleo, Epi-paleo.

In terms of other things I have tried that I remember (I have tried almost everything with no results):

• T3 (still use, makes me less tired and keeps temps reasonable, but not great)
• Progesterone
• Pregnenolone
• Vitamin D and K2
• Hydrogen Peroxide
• Turpentine
• Candida Complexes
• Nystatin
• Antibiotics
• Enemas
• Sodium Bicarbonate
• Lots of sea salt
• ACV
• Fulvic Acid
• Lots of different Magnesium
• Epsom Salt baths
• Oil of Oregano
• Sodium Thiosulfate
• Iodine
• Flowers of Sulphur
• Different Amino Acids

There are probably more, but this covers most that i have tried for a while.

Although it's a long shot and I feel as though there's pretty much no hope. I am keeping my fingers crossed that there may be someone who can help.

Except the coated tongue and headaches, I,ve got the same, or very similar (plus some more. Life would be boring other way, you know...) symptoms.

I,d say @Jennifer nailed it suspecting an overgrowth, but you mentioned you took already antibiotics, which perplexes me a little.

However, if you,re not trully sure you,ve ruled out an infection or no, I,d suggest doing that 1st. Afterwards, you,ll have much more space to maneuvre.

Have you taken your blood pressure btw?

 

[Jennifer]

Except the coated tongue and headaches, I,ve got the same, or very similar (plus some more. Life would be boring other way, you know...) symptoms.

I,d say @Jennifer nailed it suspecting an overgrowth, but you mentioned you took already antibiotics, which perplexes me a little.

However, if you,re not trully sure you,ve ruled out an infection or no, I,d suggest doing that 1st. Afterwards, you,ll have much more space to maneuvre.

Have you taken your blood pressure btw?

Hi Vinny! :)

It would depend on the type of overgrowth and antibiotic used. With SIBO, the breath test measures both hydrogen and methane. Typically, Rifaximin/Xifaxan is used to target hydrogen producing bacteria and neomycin for methane producing bacteria. A broad spectrum antibiotic like the cyclines (tetra, doxy and mino) can work but from what my doctor told me, when it comes to methane producing bacteria, not penicillins. I mention penicillin because Ray often suggests VK and it's one of the ones I see frequently used by members here. It can also take more than one course (a typical course is 14 days) of antibiotics to clear SIBO.

There's also underlying causes which are often untreated or undertreated hypothyroidism and/or diet. Stress (affects gut motility and permeability, among other things), poorly digested food, food allergies, probiotics, fiber etc. can fuel an overgrowth and if they aren't addressed at the same time as treatment, it may not be as successful. For example, I've had a hard time with dairy since birth (was formula fed) and developed an overgrowth after reintroducing it after a 3(?) year hiatus in my 20s (have before and after comprehensive stool tests that prove this), and was put on minocycline (200mg a day) to clear it. I should note I was also treating my thyroid at the time (with WP Thyroid). I continued to consume dairy during treatment and whenever I tried to get off the antibiotic, all the overgrowth symptoms (except for the puffy eyes, same as the ones Lee mentions) would return so my doctor had me keep taking it. After a year, I decided to go off the mino for good and my symptoms came back with a vengeance. Even removing dairy from my diet didn't relieve them like it had prior to treatment. Looking back, I should have removed dairy from my diet while taking the mino and stuck with foods I know I digest best, even if they're not considered ideal by the scientific literature or among certain diet camps/gut healing protocols. With dairy in my diet, I was only keeping the overgrowth at bay with the mino, not clearing it completely.