Vitamin A Increases DHT By Enhancing 5-alpha Reductase

haidut

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Rat study, and it used preformed all-trans-retinoic acid (ATRA) but it should hold true for retinol and its various esters like retinyl acetate/palmitate. The human dosage for ATRA was in the range 500mg-700mg, which is a huge dose.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10423178

"...Administration of all-trans-retinoic acid (ATRA; 60 mg/kg daily for 3 days) to male rats increased the rate of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT) formation from testosterone in microsomal fractions in vitro. The formation of androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol from testosterone was also increased because of the higher concentration of 5alpha-DHT produced in microsomal incubations. Northern analysis confirmed that the increased rate of 5alpha-DHT formation was due to the pretranslational up-regulation in delta4-3-oxosteroid 5alpha-oxidoreductase (EC 1.3.99.5) mRNA expression in ATRA-treated male rat liver. Thus, ATRA elicited in male rat liver a partial feminization of the expression of this enzyme, which normally exhibits a female-selective distribution in the rat. Subsequent experiments evaluated whether the administration of human chorionic gonadotropin or thyroxine to ATRA-treated male rats decreases 5alpha-reductase activity to that observed in untreated male rat liver. Although these treatments did not decrease 5alpha-reductase to untreated male levels, it was found that administration of ATRA to gonadectomized male rats produced complete feminization of the enzyme. Again, up-regulation was confirmed at the mRNA level. The activity of the male-specific cytochrome P450 2C11 (as reflected by microsomal testosterone 16alpha-hydroxylation activity) was correspondingly decreased by treatments that increased steroid 5alpha-reductase activity. Thus, gonadectomy in combination with ATRA administration effected a more pronounced decrease in 16alpha-hydroxylation activity than either treatment alone. These findings suggest that ATRA is a novel positive regulator of the 5alpha-reductase that in combination with the removal of circulating androgen, which normally suppresses 5alpha-reductase levels, feminizes the expression of this enzyme in rat liver."
 

Orion

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Rat study, and it used preformed all-trans-retinoic acid (ATRA) but it should hold true for retinol and its various esters like retinyl acetate/palmitate. The human dosage for ATRA was in the range 500mg-700mg, which is a huge dose.

Pretranslational up-regulation of the hepatic microsomal delta4-3-oxosteroid 5alpha-oxidoreductase in male rat liver by all-trans-retinoic acid. - PubMed - NCBI

"...Administration of all-trans-retinoic acid (ATRA; 60 mg/kg daily for 3 days) to male rats increased the rate of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT) formation from testosterone in microsomal fractions in vitro. The formation of androstane-3alpha,17beta-diol from testosterone was also increased because of the higher concentration of 5alpha-DHT produced in microsomal incubations. Northern analysis confirmed that the increased rate of 5alpha-DHT formation was due to the pretranslational up-regulation in delta4-3-oxosteroid 5alpha-oxidoreductase (EC 1.3.99.5) mRNA expression in ATRA-treated male rat liver. Thus, ATRA elicited in male rat liver a partial feminization of the expression of this enzyme, which normally exhibits a female-selective distribution in the rat. Subsequent experiments evaluated whether the administration of human chorionic gonadotropin or thyroxine to ATRA-treated male rats decreases 5alpha-reductase activity to that observed in untreated male rat liver. Although these treatments did not decrease 5alpha-reductase to untreated male levels, it was found that administration of ATRA to gonadectomized male rats produced complete feminization of the enzyme. Again, up-regulation was confirmed at the mRNA level. The activity of the male-specific cytochrome P450 2C11 (as reflected by microsomal testosterone 16alpha-hydroxylation activity) was correspondingly decreased by treatments that increased steroid 5alpha-reductase activity. Thus, gonadectomy in combination with ATRA administration effected a more pronounced decrease in 16alpha-hydroxylation activity than either treatment alone. These findings suggest that ATRA is a novel positive regulator of the 5alpha-reductase that in combination with the removal of circulating androgen, which normally suppresses 5alpha-reductase levels, feminizes the expression of this enzyme in rat liver."

Estroban made my shoulders hairy
 
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haidut

haidut

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Estroban made my shoulders hairy

Lol, thanks for the feedback! Any other parts/areas that it made hairy? How about legs or pelvic area?
 
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Lol, thanks for the feedback! Any other parts/areas that it made hairy? How about legs or pelvic area?

I'd note about a 50% Increase in chest hair thickness/length. Alongside increase in hair underside of forearms, which was previously non-exsistant. I am a 22 year old male.

As for the posted study. Estroban clearly increases DHT.

DHT acts on adrenaline receptors in the nervous system which may explain an "impending doom" feeling I and others have experienced with sublingual
 
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Wagner83

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Tongkat Ali did this for me as well, it felt really nice and androgenic, I felt like a beast at times. The only downside is the need to swallow a pill a few times a day.
 
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haidut

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High_Prob

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@haidut on another thread you stated the below:

'Body hair, especially excess hair on chest is estrogen drive. Very often you will see older males with hairy chest but smooth legs and calves. Hair on lower part of legs is more reliable measure of DHT levels.'

(Who Has Used Or Is Using DHT?)

Has your position changed? It was almost 2 years ago since you made that statement so it would make sense if you have acquired further data since then that made you change your stance...
 
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raypeatclips

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@haidut on another thread you stated the below:

'Body hair, especially excess hair on chest is estrogen drive. Very often you will see older males with hairy chest but smooth legs and calves. Hair on lower part of legs is more reliable measure of DHT levels.'

(Who Has Used Or Is Using DHT?)

Has your position changed?

Yes, thank you for posting this, this was the quote I had in my head
 

Wagner83

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Not really, why? Body hair would be indicative of higher androgens usually.

==>

Hirsutism due to adrenal hyperplasia in males is driven by DHEA and this is the pattern of hair it causes - chest, back, shoulders, neck, ears, etc. Varicosity of veins is also a common feature. It was found that giving aromatase inhibitor to these patients eliminated that pattern hirsutism and relieved varicose veins, so we know it is DHEA conversion into estrogen that was primary cause. I can't the study now but I think the aromatase inhibitor used was some kind of 5-AR derived androgen as the study was old and back the day the only aromatase inhibitors they had were the 5-AR androgens like DHT. Which is even better, as it shows DHT is not involvedin excessive body hair on the trunk but only extremities like legs and face.
If I find the study I'll post here but you can find newer studies on PubMed about central (trunk) hirsutism and DHEA/estrogen levels.

Hair on neck, shoulder, sides of back and inside of ears/nose is a symptom of elevated cortisol and dropping gonadal androgens. It is not a coincidence that it is seen predominantly in older men (and in people with Cushing syndrome). Most men begin to show signs of it after the age of 35 and some much earlier depending on metabolism and general health. The generic term is hirsutism and perhaps counterintuitively for most people who think it is due to androgen excess, there were studies with androsterone and DHT done in the 1950s showing those steroids can reverse it.
 
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haidut

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Right, but if it only makes their shoulders hairy then it is not so clear. If it made them hairy all over then it would be clear.
I will ask for more details.
 
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haidut

haidut

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@haidut on another thread you stated the below:

'Body hair, especially excess hair on chest is estrogen drive. Very often you will see older males with hairy chest but smooth legs and calves. Hair on lower part of legs is more reliable measure of DHT levels.'

(Who Has Used Or Is Using DHT?)

Has your position changed? It was almost 2 years ago since you made that statement so it would make sense if you have acquired further data since then that made you change your stance...

No, it has not changed. I just took that that statement to mean that only their shoulders got hairy, in which case it is less clear that it is estrogen-driven. If it raises DHEA synthesis that by itself would not be bad. It would be bad if it raises both estrogen and DHEA. Hard to say without a test.
 

ebs

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I'm currently using retinoic acid as part of my skincare protocol. Is there any reason to believe it could inhibit dht in the skin and decrease facial hair? I've seen it listed elsewhere (without a proper source) as a dht-inhibitor but @haidut 's study above suggests otherwise.

This study suggests it might inhibit androgens but I'm not sure how to interpret it.

Inhibitory effects of retinoic acids on androgen-dependent development of neonatal mouse seminal vesicles in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI

Here's some more:

13-cis-Retinoic acid competitively inhibits 3α-hydroxysteroid oxidation by retinol dehydrogenase RoDH-4: a mechanism for its anti-androgenic effects in sebaceous glands? - ScienceDirect
 
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EIRE24

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I'm currently using retinoic acid as part of my skincare protocol. Is there any reason to believe it could inhibit dht in the skin and decrease facial hair? I've seen it listed elsewhere (without a proper source) as a dht-inhibitor but @haidut 's study above suggests otherwise.

This study suggests it might inhibit androgens but I'm not sure how to interpret it.

Inhibitory effects of retinoic acids on androgen-dependent development of neonatal mouse seminal vesicles in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI

Here's some more:

13-cis-Retinoic acid competitively inhibits 3α-hydroxysteroid oxidation by retinol dehydrogenase RoDH-4: a mechanism for its anti-androgenic effects in sebaceous glands? - ScienceDirect
Have you had success with using A for skin conditions?
 

Yggr

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If I’m not mistaken tretinoin is all-trans retinoic acid.
 
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