1 Drop Of Thyroid Gave Me A Panic Attack?

[Deadpool]

So after 3 years of no success trying to implement Peat's work into my lifestyle, I finally bit the bullet and ordered thyroid, to be clear, Tyromax.

I have had hypothyroid symptoms or so Ive been told on this forum but my labs really say something different.

TSH basal: 0.94 (0.27 - 4.2)
Free T3: 4.4 (2 - 4.4)
Free T4: 1.6 (0.9 - 1.7)

With higher prolactin and super low cholesterol.

I was hesitant to take thyroid in fear that it would be dangerous or further lower my cholesterol, but after reading and talking with members, I thought it might be high cortisol that is creating these lab values and I am still hypothyroid.

I took 1 drop of thyroid for two days, and on the second day, I started having what I think was like a panic attack in the middle of the night. Woke up after like 2 hours of sleep. My skin felt super hot, I felt uncomfortable and my heart rate was 90bpm and I had pulsating headache from high blood pressure.

What do you guys make out of that? Is thyroid maybe not for me? Weirdly enough, both days of taking thyroid I woke up feeling better rested than usual with less under eye rings.

 

[boris]

According to Peat your cholesterol should be above 200 before starting thyroid. Did you try to raise it before?

 

[boris]

How are your other markers of thyroid health? Waking temp/pulse + 1-2 hours after breakfast and achilles tendon relaxation reflex?

 

[Deadpool]

According to Peat your cholesterol should be above 200 before starting thyroid. Did you try to raise it before?

my cholesterol is only about 80 on two seperate lab tests which I have always suspected causes my low androgens.

I have tried raising it with saturated fats and sugar for years now and I have been eating lots of cholesterol boosting foods to no avail.

doctors don’t say anything and after contacting peat recently, he told me that I might need thyroid ...

I can post my other lab values here if you want.
Gist of it is low androgens, low cholesterol, high-ish prolactin

 

[Kunstruct]

What was your prolactin result?

 

[Deadpool]

What was your prolactin result?

The first test around it was 346 (86 - 324) but this was when I was hardcore peating with a super liquid diet, basically mostly sugared milk, gelatin, coffee, orange juice, some eggs and meat.

About 1 month later after eating more solid food and supplementing more B6 and D3 it came back as 194 mU/l (<500), so a little lower.

 

[Kunstruct]

The first test around it was 346 (86 - 324) but this was when I was hardcore peating with a super liquid diet, basically mostly sugared milk, gelatin, coffee, orange juice, some eggs and meat.

About 1 month later after eating more solid food and supplementing more B6 and D3 it came back as 194 mU/l (<500), so a little lower.

That is not high prolactin, 194 mU/l is 9ng/dl, so that is way below many people, should not worry, seems alright.
You are in the lower prolactin numbers under 10ng/dl actually. I guess with care that will go even lower a a bit.
Not to mention you are far from what I see around me 2000 miU/l

But it is interesting that you had a higher prolactin when "hardcore peating".
Maybe your prolactin was even higher before hardcore peating?

 

[Deadpool]

That is not high prolactin, 194 mU/l is 9ng/dl, so that is way below many people, should not worry, seems alright.
You are in the lower prolactin numbers under 10ng/dl actually. I guess with care that will go even lower a a bit.
Not to mention you are far from what I see around me 2000 miU/l

But it is interesting that you had a higher prolactin when "hardcore peating".
Maybe your prolactin was even higher before hardcore peating?

interesting and good to hear. Yeah, I believe it might be fine now but before when it was 346 and even out of reference range, that might not be as bad when you have a pituatary tumor or medication sideeffects but still not optimal. Anyways, good to know that it is in a fine range now.

still testosterone is low at around 300 and cholesterol at 80.

something is not right cause I am dealing with symptoms like low energy, high blood pressure, chronic fatigue and erectile dysfunction

 

[thomas00]

One mistake which has been made in the past has been to start thyroid therapy with excessive amounts. Another has been to give up too soon to expect immediate results, immediate disappearance of symptoms. And still a third has been to stop thyroid therapy because the patient has become nervous and the nervousness has been thought to be the result of too much thyroid. If the basal temperature is still low or within the normal range, it is a clear indication that the nervousness and other symptoms are not coming from too much thyroid and thyroid therapy should continue while an effort is made to overcome or adjust to what is really the disturbing factor." Broda Barnes (1973)

“That sort of sudden adrenaline effect can happen when there’s something essential missing in the diet, while the requirements are increased by using thyroid. Deficiencies of protein, magnesium, calcium, and the B vitamins are most likely. Too much phosphate and too little carbohydrate are other possibilities.” "When you first start taking thyroid again, your tissues will need some extra magnesium..." Ray Peat

"Administration of thyroid to these patients, in the absence of a vitamin B supplement, usually caused exacerbation of the signs and symptoms of deficiency without significant change in the metabolic rate." Morton Biskind (1946)

https://www.patreon.com/posts/demystifying-14839477

 

[Deadpool]

One mistake which has been made in the past has been to start thyroid therapy with excessive amounts. Another has been to give up too soon to expect immediate results, immediate disappearance of symptoms. And still a third has been to stop thyroid therapy because the patient has become nervous and the nervousness has been thought to be the result of too much thyroid. If the basal temperature is still low or within the normal range, it is a clear indication that the nervousness and other symptoms are not coming from too much thyroid and thyroid therapy should continue while an effort is made to overcome or adjust to what is really the disturbing factor." Broda Barnes (1973)

“That sort of sudden adrenaline effect can happen when there’s something essential missing in the diet, while the requirements are increased by using thyroid. Deficiencies of protein, magnesium, calcium, and the B vitamins are most likely. Too much phosphate and too little carbohydrate are other possibilities.” "When you first start taking thyroid again, your tissues will need some extra magnesium..." Ray Peat

"Administration of thyroid to these patients, in the absence of a vitamin B supplement, usually caused exacerbation of the signs and symptoms of deficiency without significant change in the metabolic rate." Morton Biskind (1946)

https://www.patreon.com/posts/demystifying-14839477

thanks for the reply!!! Definitely thought about it but the thing is, my temperature suddenly ran very high

 

[meatbag]

So after 3 years of no success trying to implement Peat's work into my lifestyle, I finally bit the bullet and ordered thyroid, to be clear, Tyromax.

I have had hypothyroid symptoms or so Ive been told on this forum but my labs really say something different.

TSH basal: 0.94 (0.27 - 4.2)
Free T3: 4.4 (2 - 4.4)
Free T4: 1.6 (0.9 - 1.7)

With higher prolactin and super low cholesterol.

I was hesitant to take thyroid in fear that it would be dangerous or further lower my cholesterol, but after reading and talking with members, I thought it might be high cortisol that is creating these lab values and I am still hypothyroid.

I took 1 drop of thyroid for two days, and on the second day, I started having what I think was like a panic attack in the middle of the night. Woke up after like 2 hours of sleep. My skin felt super hot, I felt uncomfortable and my heart rate was 90bpm and I had pulsating headache from high blood pressure.

What do you guys make out of that? Is thyroid maybe not for me? Weirdly enough, both days of taking thyroid I woke up feeling better rested than usual with less under eye rings.

Have you ever used niacinamide? I think it's been discussed on the forum that high free fatty acids and adrenaline could cause some of the things you're describing
-
TyroMax - Liquid Thyroid (NDT), USP

 

[tallglass13]

I'm guessing you are hyperthyroid or/and must get cholesterol up . Your TSH is in pretty good range, plus your T3 is high normal. same with t4, plus the low cholesterol proves you have a good thyroid. However, you need more Cholesterol. I guess use Raymond's techniques for that.

 

[Deadpool]

Have you ever used niacinamide? I think it's been discussed on the forum that high free fatty acids and adrenaline could cause some of the things you're describing
-
TyroMax - Liquid Thyroid (NDT), USP

Yes, I have, althought that was before I supplemented with thyroid and it didn't really make a difference for me ....

I'm guessing you are hyperthyroid or/and must get cholesterol up . Your TSH is in pretty good range, plus your T3 is high normal. same with t4, plus the low cholesterol proves you have a good thyroid. However, you need more Cholesterol. I guess use Raymond's techniques for that.

+

Well, that's the question. On the hand I believe yes, I am hyperthyroid but then there are replies like the one before where people say you stopped too early, it's just nervousness, go on etc

I gotta get the cholesterol up for sure though. Only problem is I don't know how anymore. I eat a ton of sugar and saturated fats, have experimented with quantities and still no result. I am no stranger to eggs, beef, milk, sugar etc How can it be so so low?

 

[Noodlz2]

It sounds like you are a person with good thyroid function, and, because of that, you have low cholesterol because it is rapidly converting to hormones. If so, I guess you should be feeling pretty good.

How would you describe your current state? Do you have any particular health problems you are trying to fix?


Edit: Just saw some of your symptoms above. Do you have any cravings then? I feel like once your endocrine system is humming along, all you need to do is do what you feel compelled to do, (even if it is extreme like fasting, or eating a bunch of vegetables or something). Do you have any cravings you've been ignoring in order to abide by Peaty principles?

 

[schultz]

According to Peat your cholesterol should be above 200 before starting thyroid. Did you try to raise it before?

my cholesterol is only about 80 on two seperate lab tests which I have always suspected causes my low androgens.

I have tried raising it with saturated fats and sugar for years now and I have been eating lots of cholesterol boosting foods to no avail.

I think the cholesterol needs to be addressed. Obviously you already know this as it was already discussed in the thread, but it seems paramount to me. Fructose can increase it, but I posted a study once which suggested you need at least 100g of fructose per day before it starts to increase cholesterol. So that would be 200g of sucrose (which would be 100g of fructose) or more. A litre of orange juice has 51-57g of fructose (including free and from sucrose) so you would need to drink at least 2 litres a day assuming it was your only source. If I were in your shoes I think I would aim to get 200g of fructose a day.

Edit: I've decided to take my own advice and see what 200g of fructose a day does for me. I'm going to aim for 3 litres of orange juice a day and the rest will be from sucrose in my lattes.

 

[tallglass13]

Yes, I have, althought that was before I supplemented with thyroid and it didn't really make a difference for me ....

+

Well, that's the question. On the hand I believe yes, I am hyperthyroid but then there are replies like the one before where people say you stopped too early, it's just nervousness, go on etc

I gotta get the cholesterol up for sure though. Only problem is I don't know how anymore. I eat a ton of sugar and saturated fats, have experimented with quantities and still no result. I am no stranger to eggs, beef, milk, sugar etc How can it be so so low?

Oh, you may be low cortisol. you should check. Ray has mentioned before that thyroid should be paired or used with enough Pregnenolone(cortisol). Otherwise you will get a heart palpitations and other symptoms like you got. So, I would take some preg for a while to get your cortisol back up. Once your cortisol is stocked, then Preg will not raise your cortisol any more, according to Ray Peat interview I just listened to last night.

 

[Deadpool]

I think the cholesterol needs to be addressed. Obviously you already know this as it was already discussed in the thread, but it seems paramount to me. Fructose can increase it, but I posted a study once which suggested you need at least 100g of fructose per day before it starts to increase cholesterol. So that would be 200g of sucrose (which would be 100g of fructose) or more. A litre of orange juice has 51-57g of fructose (including free and from sucrose) so you would need to drink at least 2 litres a day assuming it was your only source. If I were in your shoes I think I would aim to get 200g of fructose a day.

Edit: I've decided to take my own advice and see what 200g of fructose a day does for me. I'm going to aim for 3 litres of orange juice a day and the rest will be from sucrose in my lattes.

Actually, I was drinking at least 1-2 Litres + 12 tables of sugar and like 2 eggs at those times. These days I do more solid foods.

also, fructose is likely out of the game cause I was just diagnosed with fructose malabsorption/intolerance.

 

[tallglass13]

Yes, I have, althought that was before I supplemented with thyroid and it didn't really make a difference for me ....

+

Well, that's the question. On the hand I believe yes, I am hyperthyroid but then there are replies like the one before where people say you stopped too early, it's just nervousness, go on etc

I gotta get the cholesterol up for sure though. Only problem is I don't know how anymore. I eat a ton of sugar and saturated fats, have experimented with quantities and still no result. I am no stranger to eggs, beef, milk, sugar etc How can it be so so low?

Ray Peat Podcasts transcribed by LIGHT
at 24:00 Ray talks about how Pregnenolone will support cortisol until its full, then taking more Preg, will Not increase cortisol anymore.

 

[BBRP]

...so you already have good thyroid hormone levels... but you think you need to take t3 because???? Some guy who’s vocal cords barely work says that everyone should be the pharmacist’s best friend?

Has he never heard of thyrotoxicosis??

 

[schultz]

Actually, I was drinking at least 1-2 Litres + 12 tables of sugar and like 2 eggs at those times. These days I do more solid foods.

also, fructose is likely out of the game cause I was just diagnosed with fructose malabsorption/intolerance.

That seems like it would be enough to boost it, although if you're not absorbing it then obviously it won't help....

How were you diagnosed with fructose malabsorption, a breath test or something? Apparently parasites are associated with fructose malabsorption.