Antihistamines Can Treat Anxiety-based Disorders Like PTSD

[sladerunner69]

What did you decide on ceritizine? I've been thinking about it recently for seasonal allergies which should just last another 3 weeks or so now. I spoke to Peat about it and he warned about the risk on the liver and sent me the same studies as above, but said it was "unlikely" to cause any problems for taking for 2-3 weeks when I asked further. All the studies I have seen about cetirizine increasing liver numbers, they all returned to normal following stopping the drug in a few days to weeks. Might be worth doing regular liver function blood tests if you are taking cetirizine long term, if you can find one reasonably cheap.

yeah its a shame because the certizine really helped with my post-finasteride syndrome related anxiety, without the intense grogginess I get from taking benadryl. I need something long term though because Im not really using it for allergies

 

[raypeatclips]

yeah its a shame because the certizine really helped with my post-finasteride syndrome related anxiety, without the intense grogginess I get from taking benadryl. I need something long term though because Im not really using it for allergies

Why not take cetirizine and have regular liver function blood tests? Monthly/fortnightly, depending on price?

 

[Pet Peeve]

I'm having some good results with ketotifen. It made me lethargic in the beginning but it seems to have passed.

 

[HDD]

I'm having some good results with ketotifen. It made me lethargic in the beginning but it seems to have passed.

What results are you seeing? How much are you taking?

 

[sladerunner69]

Why not take cetirizine and have regular liver function blood tests? Monthly/fortnightly, depending on price?

Because it would be too concerning that I would be compramising my over all health recovery. I ahve been recovering much faster since I have fixed my thyroid and gotten my liver and gut function back on track. I wouldnt dare do anything against that aim.

 

[raypeatclips]

Because it would be too concerning that I would be compramising my over all health recovery. I ahve been recovering much faster since I have fixed my thyroid and gotten my liver and gut function back on track. I wouldnt dare do anything against that aim.

Okay fair enough. Have you written anywhere how you have managed to improve your thyroid/gut/liver?

 

[sladerunner69]

Okay fair enough. Have you written anywhere how you have managed to improve your thyroid/gut/liver?

Well yeah i have, mostly in the pfs thread. I employed most of the well-known Ray Peat Dietary methods, eating fruit and juices, organic milk, regular liver/oysters, pasture raised eggs etc. The diet alone helped considerably. Ive also been using the bright light everyday for a few years now, and tried most of the supplements from dhea to aspirin to methylene blue. What has helped the liver the most is probably caffiene, which now I take a 200mg pill as well as a couple cups of coffee through the day. I can't seem to avoid a power nap in the afternoon though. Oh well. For my gut I do Peat's carrot salad everyday, and I can tell niacinimide is good for gut issues- particualrly higher dosages >1g if your blood sugar can remains table enough to handle it. Aspirin seems to help as well, but not large amounts which tend to make me feel stale/irritable, but just 325mg or so in the morning or before bed. Vitamin k2 is something I started last year and it supposedly has good effects on clearing fat from the liver. The way I would approach liver issues is no different form any other issue in Peat's view- avoid starch, avoid pufa, eat sugar for fuel, 100g protein, do various things to raise the metabolism and then just add in enough time and you an recover from practically anything I'm nearly certain.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Apart from it's considerable hazards for the liver, do second generation Antihistamines, especially Cetirizine, deliever any of the positive effects we discuss here for first generation stuff?

 

[Pet Peeve]

What results are you seeing? How much are you taking?

I'm taking 0,2 mg 2x day and I've also taken 04 mg at once a couple of times per day. It's cost keeping me from taking higher doses because I have to take the eyedrops and swallow them. I've noticed antihistamine action, antidepressive effect and it seems to help my irritable digestive tract.

 

[HDD]

@Pet Peeve Thanks for replying, your results sound promising. I'm waiting for my order to arrive from Mexico. $6.45 for 28 - 1 mg (plus shipping). I wondered if eye drops could be taken orally. How does the cost compare to the Mexican oral tabs?

 

[Pet Peeve]

@Pet Peeve Thanks for replying, your results sound promising. I'm waiting for my order to arrive from Mexico. $6.45 for 28 - 1 mg (plus shipping). I wondered if eye drops could be taken orally. How does the cost compare to the Mexican oral tabs?

I pay USD 15 per mg with the eyedrops. They don't make me lethargic like cypro and ketotifen is also used to heal leaky gut which is a great benefit for me. I'd like to get my hands on some ketotifen pills. I've got plenty of clonidine and cypro. Where do you buy?

 

[HDD]

@Pet Peeve I sent you a pm.

 

[Prosper]

Well this is an interesting coincidence. I've been spending the summer at my parents house and have had to take Ebastine a few times due to me being allergic to their cat. Now that I made this connection, I realize that I've definitely had less anxiety attacks and increased well-being for the next few days after dosing it.

My anxiety stems from past substance abuse. It's great to know that there is a relatively safe temporary solution for when things get though during the recovery.

 

[Xisca]

How is it possible to regulate histamine production in a natural way?
Like food and hormonal and mineral vitamine balance etc....
I am almost sure I have too much histamine reactions but I do not know much about it...

 

[gettodachopper6]

How is it possible to regulate histamine production in a natural way?
Like food and hormonal and mineral vitamine balance etc....
I am almost sure I have too much histamine reactions but I do not know much about it...

Did you ever find a way to regulate histamine production in a natural way?

 

[Kray]

@Pet Peeve I sent you a pm.

@HDD can you PM me with the same information? I see it's been a while since this thread, but if you still have access to a good source, I would appreciate the information. Meanwhile, would the eye drops suffice? Others have indicated taking drops sublingual or topical, but not sure how much would be needed compared to tablet dosage. Thank you!

 

[OliviaD]

The specific drug studied was diphenhydramine (Benadryl), which Ray Peat recommends for several problems including endotoxin protection and liver support.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/10/23 ... 61082.html
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/ ... l.pdf+html

However, I have seen pretty similar results for cyproheptadine, which is also antihistamine in action.
Efficacy of cyproheptadine for nightmares associated with posttraumatic stress disorder - PubMed
Cyproheptadine for posttraumatic nightmares - PubMed

So, it seems that this may be a general property of the antihistamines. I wonder what the mechanism of action is. Based on Peat's ideas anxiety/PTSD/panic are probably caused by serotonin so that explains why cyproheptadine is effective since it's a general serotonin inverse agonist. But if Benadryl is working as well, then does that imply Benadryl has anti-serotonin action as well???
Maybe somebody already exchanged emails with Peat on Benadryl and how he thinks the drug achieves its effects. So, please share what you know.

I don't know - I don't like the idea of using an anticholinergic for any kind of psych problem , or any problem long term as they are linked to memory and cognitive problems with use like that, as well as constipation, urinary difficulty, dry mouth and all other problems associated with decreased PS nervous system output. (diphenhydramine is potent anticholinergic). I see that while cyproheptadine is also an anti-histamine, it is not as potent of an anti-cholinergic, and also has the anti-serotonin effects. I have never seen that associated with diphendydramine.

The psych cartel has been using antihistamines for a long time for "anxiety', I think the only mechanism is that they make people drowsy. They don't really fix anxiety. In fact in some people like me - Benedryl makes me anxious - b/c of the anticholinergic effect - I must be sensitive.

I am a devotee of Dr. Peter Breggin - no drug that acts on the brain makes the brain better ... they are all toxins. PTSD can be treated with therapy... and a dog :) Even if one uses a drug temporarily , it is still necessary to 'rewire the circuits' or one is only sedated, not healed.

 

[OliviaD]

Did you ever find a way to regulate histamine production in a natural way?

Quercetin has anti histamine and mast cell stabilizing functions. Also stinging nettle.

 

[Kray]

Quercetin has anti histamine and mast cell stabilizing functions. Also stinging nettle.

Your comments are well taken as to long-term concerns with antihistamines.
If one wants to try OTC that is not anticholinergic, would Claritin or Zyrtec be good options? I really don't want to use anything long-term that is anti-chol. with studies showing problems as you discussed above. I don't suppose Ketotifen or Cyproheptidine in lowest doses would be something to worry about, if taken routinely?

I like the idea of the more natural options you just listed, but aren't they known to be estrogenic?

 

[OliviaD]

Your comments are well taken as to long-term concerns with antihistamines.
I thought that Ketotifen is not anticholinergetic, if I remember correctly, unlike Benadryl and others.
I like the idea of the more natural options you just listed, but aren't they known to be estrogenic?

It is a timely topic as my nephew has come to live w/ me, with a potential diagnosis of 'schizophrenia' - which I believe is actually was actually the result of a toxic cocktail of drugs he was put on to fix the purported 'mental illness' - an SSRI, an anti-psychotic with potent anticholinergic effects, and another anticholinergic drug... and what a shock - he became more and more agitated, stimulated and aggressive to the point threatening to kill his mother and punching his father. This is a normally sweet and mild mannered young man. These SSRIs are truly the work of Satan, and the polypharmacy being used more and more is the cause of a lot of 'mental illness'.

Unfortunately the useless new psychiatric nurse he has been sentenced to see prescribed an anticholinergic. After he takes it - I can visibly see his body getting 'amped up', his is more anxious, agitated, and paces about more frenetically. I really don't think anticholinergics are good for some of these vulnerable brains.

Of course - I think an antihistamine for short term purposes is probably ok for most people. Since I've been doing a lot of research about all of these drugs and the neurotoxic effects I don't want to touch any of them. Although I'm curious about the cyproheptidine as I hear people say it helps their GI problems. That is a broad term , though :) However - with it's anti-serotonergic properties , it might be a better choice for my nephew.

I don't know about the estrogenic properties of quercetin and stinging nettles - too bad if that is the case. Interesting re: ketotifen