Are Humic/Fulvic Acids And Lignite Toxic?

[Zpol]

@Xisca @jyb @Dan Wich @NickC @aguilaroja @achillea or anybody...
I've read a few posts indicating you may researched humic/fulvic acids and even lignite. Just looking for some direction on this topic; if you would so kind to lend some insight?

From what I understand these compounds can be beneficial to restore mineral balance and tighten junctions in the epithelial cells of the intestines. This sounds great but they contain some possibly toxic materials including cadmium, nickel, and iron. And lignite is from brown coal (a known carcinogen). These compounds are from organic material as opposed to inorganic heavy metals; does that make them safe?

I'm in search of balanced mineral supplement to correct my severe deficiencies. I can't seem to get enough from food because of my poor digestion. Also I have SIBO and severe permeable gut (autoimmune disease, chronic infections, etc). I already take magnesium and calcium but it's not enough apparently.

Here's one that I'm thinking of taking:

Or else the product called Restore4life which is lignite.

I've looked at other 'plant based' mineral supp's but they all contain rice (which I'm allergic to), silica, or some other terrible exipient.

I'd appreciate anything, anecdotal stories, links to research, etc!

edit; I do take Nettle tea w/ cinnamon daily and it helped some signs of mineral deficiencies but starting getting allergy symptoms so have to stop it for now.

 

[aguilaroja]

..
I've read a few posts indicating you may researched humic/fulvic acids and even lignite. Just looking for some direction on this topic...
From what I understand these compounds can be beneficial to restore mineral balance and tighten junctions in the epithelial cells of the intestines. This sounds great but they contain some possibly toxic materials including cadmium, nickel, and iron. And lignite is from brown coal (a known carcinogen). These compounds are from organic material as opposed to inorganic heavy metals; does that make them safe?
...

I have no general experience nor specific experience with this product.[I don’t think “compost tea” experiences in gardening and farming apply ] Maybe @Travis ’s wide-ranging investigations include this domain.

When I have met people reporting success with similar products, the improvement seems equivocal according to their own accounts. My tendency is toward caution here.

Sadly, no part of the planet is pollution free these days. So contaminants are a concern even with careful manufacture. In some ways, nutrient processing in plants and animals may sometimes act as bio-filtering, to de-toxify potentially harmful substances. However, I am not aware of major protective filtering by humic/fulvic acids. There are citations about humic/fulvic acids binding heavy-metals, and also leading to chemical by-products.

Humic acid - Wikipedia
“The heavy-metal binding abilities of humic acids have been exploited to develop remediation technologies for removing heavy metals from waste water.”

Humic acid - Wikipedia
“Humic and fulvic acids, when present in treated drinking water, can react with the chemicals used in the chlorination process to form disinfection byproducts such as dihaloacetonitriles, which are toxic to humans.”

Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths
The nutrients produced in the cow's rumen are selectively absorbed into the cow's bloodstream, where the liver can further filter out any toxins before the amino acids and other nutrients are absorbed by the udder to be synthesized into milk. If cows are fed extremely bad diets, for example with a very large amount of grain, the filtering process is less perfect, and some allergens can reach the milk, but since sick cows are less profitable than healthy cows, dairies usually feed their cows fairly well.

Scientists discover pollution 10,000 meters below the ocean’s surface in the Mariana Trench

 

[Zpol]

[I don’t think “compost tea” experiences in gardening and farming apply ]

Too bad, that sounds mighty delicious!

Good point about pollution being a big factor in these types of supplements. Whatever kind of benefits eating dirt (or playing in dirt, or walking in dirt) may have provided at one time is probably obscured now days by contaminates. Glyphosate for example, it's everywhere now, even in organic crops. Pesticide and chemical corporations dutifully put the instructions and disclaimers on their products like "don't use on windy day," "rinse container well before disposing," or "don't use on high water tables"... what a freaking joke. As if any of those things are going to prevent environmental damage caused by the toxic chemical components. And now pollution even in the great depths of the ocean; it's saddening.

When I have met people reporting success with similar products, the improvement seems equivocal according to their own accounts.

I've read some anecdotal stories and I've seen the humic/fulvic acids used in gut healing protocols with people indicating good results, but nothing 100% convincing. The Restore4life has a lot of research that is accessible but it's shady IMO.
I haven't found any long term studies on humic/fulvic acids or lignite; my concern would be the cumulative effects of the toxic components.

Just thinking here... if the 'detox' action of lignite is the mechanism by which epithelial cells are strengthened (if it were a fungus or gram negative bacteria that was causing 'leakiness' the first place), then perhaps succinic acid would be a much better therapy.
I would have to figure something else out to get minerals back in balance.

Thanks for your thoughts on this @aguilaroja .

 

[jyb]

@Xisca @jyb @Dan Wich @NickC @aguilaroja @achillea or anybody...
I've read a few posts indicating you may researched humic/fulvic acids and even lignite. Just looking for some direction on this topic; if you would so kind to lend some insight?

If you're looking into deficiencies and considering fulvic acid, the person who by far wrote and thought the most about this topic is gbolduev, who moved to Hack Stasis Forum. Note, I take no view as to whether he is correct or not - I haven't researched this enough. I refer to him because of his sheer volume of ideas on this topic - he and the others there will have had discussed and experienced just about any upside and downside (yes, serious downsides too).

 

[Carrum]

I looked into fulvic and humic acid a few years ago but I wasn't convinced so I started using https://traceminerals.com/concentrace-trace-mineral-drops/ . I've been taking it for a few years now. I work outside and in the heat of the summer, this stops me getting bad muscle cramps so something in it is working. I take it all year around.

 

[greengr]

I would be careful with fulvic acid if you have autoimmune diseases, apparently it can raise t-cells

 

[NickC]

@Zpol I ended-up using Mumijo which is the Russian version of Shilajit. I now take 1g of the black tar in 3/4 pint of nearly boiling water and am convinced it has contributed greatly to resolving digestive issues.

However this has taken maybe four months of trying much smaller doses to get to this point. In the beginning it caused severe constipation so I had to add some organic Castor Oil to the mix but now I seen fine with just Mumijo on it's own.

 

[Xisca]

I'm in search of balanced mineral supplement to correct my severe deficiencies. I can't seem to get enough from food because of my poor digestion. Also I have SIBO and severe permeable gut (autoimmune disease, chronic infections, etc). I already take magnesium and calcium but it's not enough apparently.

I am solving this with a carnivore diet... following advice from a friend who solved his life long colitis, he might have crohn or UC, he was to the point of fainting in pain and hemoragia. My SIBO has disseappeared and my digestion is perfect.

It also happened that my clacium and magnesium were very good in hair test, but that my potassium and phosphorus were not good! So, go for a hair analysis with either ARL or TEI, I did with the latter.

My organic acid test also proved I had a bad glucidic metabolism, as I butter, had both lactic acid and another acid proving it, and no residue in urine about fat metabolism. Now I am in gluconeogenesis and ketosis I guess, but I still do not get pufas, as I use mainly ruminant meat, fish, shells, liver, eggs, butter and some coconut and olive oil.

 

[Zpol]

If you're looking into deficiencies and considering fulvic acid, the person who by far wrote and thought the most about this topic is gbolduev, who moved to Hack Stasis Forum. Note, I take no view as to whether he is correct or not - I haven't researched this enough. I refer to him because of his sheer volume of ideas on this topic - he and the others there will have had discussed and experienced just about any upside and downside (yes, serious downsides too).

Thank you. Yes, I think I know who you are talking about. I've read some of his posts but never really fully understood his main points. I'll check out that other site.

I looked into fulvic and humic acid a few years ago but I wasn't convinced so I started using https://traceminerals.com/concentrace-trace-mineral-drops/ . I've been taking it for a few years now. I work outside and in the heat of the summer, this stops me getting bad muscle cramps so something in it is working. I take it all year around.

I've tried those drops before. I got heartburn from them unfortunately, but I was in a bad state then (not able to keep food down). I think I could try them again and be sure to take with a balanced meal.

I would be careful with fulvic acid if you have autoimmune diseases, apparently it can raise t-cells

Whoa, I did not know that! yikes. I do have AI disease so probably not a swell idea for me.

My SIBO has disseappeared and my digestion is perfect.

Wow, that's amazing! I think one day I will be able to say the same (i hope!). I will look into getting both those tests, thank you!
I know the ketogenic diet cancels out pretty much all fermentable carbs and thereby eliminates overgrowth of bacteria. I've done that same diet 3 times now, the first time it worked great but I stopped for some reason (can't remember why). I tried it two more times since but each time I got worse GERD symptoms and I had to pee literally every single hour (including through the night). The frequent urination was scary, I thought it was "low carb flu" and it would eventually subside but then I read it's actually something to do with protein dumping, so I stopped. Also, I have bile flow/gallbadder/pancreas issues and couldn't handle the fat (that's my theory at least). It makes me hopeful to know that you, a person who has studied, researched, and worked hard on your health, is now reaping the rewards. I'm onto something by eliminating starches and limiting carb sources to ripe fruit, honey, and sugar, hopefully it gets better from here. Thank you for your input!

 

[Carrum]

I've tried those drops before. I got heartburn from them unfortunately, but I was in a bad state then (not able to keep food down). I think I could try them again and be sure to take with a balanced meal.

I used to get lots of heartburn but that was well before I started taking the drops. I just have them in orange juice first thing in the morning.

 

[Zpol]

I used to get lots of heartburn but that was well before I started taking the drops. I just have them in orange juice first thing in the morning.

Good to know. I'll try that. Thanks!

 

[Xisca]

I also use trace minerals and 1 is with fulvic acid and the lab is trace minerals.

@Zpol I have problems with fats as well and I am not really doing keto but carnivore diet! So I use neoglucogenesis I suppose. I get just enough fat to not be constipated and not too much cheese for the same reason.

You can breakfast with bitter herbs 1st thing to help with making stomach acid. Dandelion artichoke leaves olive leaves chicory.... with some lemon juice and virgin olive oil, the more bitter the better the oil. It has oleuropein same as the leaves.

Then no or minimum fat for dinner. Don't fear proteins for dinner but get it before sunset.

Then up the feet of your bed 15 cm on head side. Very good for sleep and lymfatic system.

I tried to go with fruits and honey and it failed... Now I have solved digestion, sleep is better, no more night pee and no more hot flashes!

Even with frequent fruit meals I could not maintain a regular glucemia it semes!

Not everything is solved especially because my 2 years high sugar resulted in crazy tooth decay - like 10, and I just had a devitalisation and have not finished to deal with the infection. Thus back to fatigue meanwhile...

 

[Zpol]

I also use trace minerals and 1 is with fulvic acid and the lab is trace minerals.

Good to know. The more I've been reading about trace minerals, the less worried I am, it's truly about the balance and organic vs inorganic. I'll need to get a baseline reading established and go forward from there.

Dandelion artichoke leaves olive leaves

I've been experimenting with bitter herbs and I found them to be extremely helpful, I've been using them in the form of tea infusions, chilled with lemon. I had been using ceylon cinnamon but there is some possibility this disregulated my mineral balance somehow as I recently experienced a new and mysterious severe illness, it's onset coincided with a lot cinnamon usage in coffee and tea. But the tea infusions helped big time with digestion!

Then up the feet of your bed 15 cm on head side. Very good for sleep and lymfatic system.

I did this for a while, I think it did help. My dad built me a wedge to put under my mattress to raise the head 8 inches. I really liked it. Then my mom started using it because she loved it so much! I should have him build one for my new king size bed (he loves to build stuff).

I tried to go with fruits and honey and it failed... Now I have solved digestion, sleep is better, no more night pee and no more hot flashes!

What are your carb sources (if you don't mind my asking)?

Not everything is solved especially because my 2 years high sugar resulted in crazy tooth decay - like 10, and I just had a devitalisation and have not finished to deal with the infection. Thus back to fatigue meanwhile...

On that topic, how is the lemon in tea affecting your teeth? (it sounds like you are consuming lemon on a regular basis)
For what it's worth, I have solved my own gum infections by following Mama Gums protocol. I cured it in one year, and was able to back off on the daily oral irrigation, just doing flossing now, and brushing 2x day. My dentist had to double check my records to make sure he had the right ones because he couldn't believe I reversed it. He was recommending that I get gum resection surgery one year and the next he was telling me I have "excellent oral hygiene". Not saying the mama gums method is the best or only good method to cure the infections. The Xylitol method linked to the sticky note on the home page of this forum sounds impressive too.

Thanks Xisca!

 

[Xisca]

Hi Zpol!!
Well I am on a zero carb experiment which seem to work for SIBO. I do not know how long I will do it and then will probably cycle with fruits in season by doing only fruits. No starch planned.
Too much fat do not work and gives me Gerd.

I seem to have no problem with lemon. My main use is lemonade with cutting the lemon in water. It becomes fizzy when the lemon gets older!

For the bed, lifting just the head is not enough as you need the slope for all the body, so I just put 2 bricks under the feet... a bit gliding but I do not even notice I am not lying flat!

 

[Zpol]

Hi Zpol!!
Well I am on a zero carb experiment which seem to work for SIBO. I do not know how long I will do it and then will probably cycle with fruits in season by doing only fruits. No starch planned.
Too much fat do not work and gives me Gerd.

I seem to have no problem with lemon. My main use is lemonade with cutting the lemon in water. It becomes fizzy when the lemon gets older!

For the bed, lifting just the head is not enough as you need the slope for all the body, so I just put 2 bricks under the feet... a bit gliding but I do not even notice I am not lying flat!

Yea, too much fat is problematic for me too.
I suppose the dilution of the lemon in water would mitigate the acidity... hope so because I love adding lemon!
Agreed, I have to have the slope go from head to toe or it actually makes things worse.

 

[ddjd]

@Zpol I ended-up using Mumijo which is the Russian version of Shilajit. I now take 1g of the black tar in 3/4 pint of nearly boiling water and am convinced it has contributed greatly to resolving digestive issues.

However this has taken maybe four months of trying much smaller doses to get to this point. In the beginning it caused severe constipation so I had to add some organic Castor Oil to the mix but now I seen fine with just Mumijo on it's own.

Can you link to the Mumijo brand/product you used please