Are people actually getting better following Dr. Peat's ideas?

[Vanset]

@Advocate2021 yeah no problem with that. You can certainly follow some of Ray's teaching and include certain foods and lean more or less into the whole framework and get better. Dairy isn't required after all and I'm sure Ray would agree.

 

[Birdie]

There used to be something like a "Ray Peat helped me with this" thread at the bottom of the forums page. I don't remember what it was called and haven't been able to find it. I thought it was really helpful..

Or it was a thread about why Ray Peat helped me more than others did. ??

 

[Advocate2021]

And just one last thing on the dairy issue from someone who did not tolerate milk for most of her life and now drinks quite a bit of it- i think the intestine is key. Since really focusing on that i have noticed a huge difference and i have written in other threads all the measures ive taken.

 

[Lilac]

A thread well worth reading:

What Made You Believe In Ray Peats Work?

I'm interested in how you came to trust and believe in Ray's work. I assume you didn't just jump in, naturally there would be some hesitation since his work is very against the mainstream. Was it keeping an open mind and slowly incorporating his ideas and seeing positive results?

raypeatforum.com

 

[Xin]

I never see testimonials of people curing chronic disease with peats way of eating.
But testimonials from people with chronic diseases being cured from the carnivore diet there are like thousands now, and the gaps diet even more. Maybe if you are already healthy you can follow peats advise and thrive

This is very accurate.

I have IBD and Peat's way of eating would surely send me to the hospital. White sugar is highly inflammatory, starches (white potatoes) are high fodmap and pasteurized milk is also terrible for IBD. Cascada is a no touch as well.

Most of the things that Ray eats and recommends wouldn't be advisable for autoimmune diseases. However one could still apply his principles and ideas such as eliminating PUFAS.

I'm not a carnivore diet fan but I have to admit that I had the best results on that diet. I've incorporated fruits and honey since and I've never felt so good. It's essentially Paul Saladino's approach.

It's amazing how one could adapt Peat's principles to any diet.

 

[Jennifer]

I urge you to do a search around the forum and see for yourelf; how many people with serious crippling health issues can include lots of dairy in their diet and heal that way? People with hypothyroidism, male/female hypogonadism, PCOS etc.
The rate limiting factor of every diet is the health of the participants so I'm not sure what the point is here. The healthier people trying the diet the better the outcome. The trick is to include severly sick people and have them reclaim their health.

I reclaimed my health on a dairy-based diet and I was in a very bad state—I was crippled. It wasn’t Ray’s work that inspired my diet, originally. A former doctor of mine put me on an ancestral diet and I craved so much raw dairy that it comprised most of my calories. I later worked with an RBTI practitioner who had me supplementing natural progesterone, which she had learned about through Dr. John Lee’s work on progesterone, and this led me to Ray’s work—I had read that Dr. Lee first learned about natural progesterone while attending one of Ray’s talks. A year later I was in communication with Ray and following his advice, and the rest is history.

 

[FrostedShores]

I've experienced significant improvements in my health since implementing Ray Peat's principles. That being said, I'm far from being in perfect health, and I'm still experimenting with different things to try and resolve certain issues.

 

[Vanset]

@Jennifer I don't deny that there are people who have had great success with this approach and dairy based diets in general, just that the track record seems so so, but that's the case with pretty much every single nutritional approach. Dairy is a very peculiar food group that seems to have a very polarizing effect on people, and for good reason. Most people seem to have some degree of intolerance to it, even the healthy ones. I still like Ray's approach the most out of them all, because he actually focuses on biological processes that occur inside the body rather than, for example, bro-science based approach of going back to some imaginary past and eating a diet that people from 200.000 thousand years ago might have eaten. The one problem I have is that Ray seems over-enthusiastic about dairy. I get it, it fits his approach perfectly, at least at the surface level.

I have read your story by the way, it's very impressive.

 

[Jennifer]

@Jennifer I don't deny that there are people who have had great success with this approach and dairy based diets in general, just that the track record seems so so, but that's the case with pretty much every single nutritional approach. Dairy is a very peculiar food group that seems to have a very polarizing effect on people, and for good reason. Most people seem to have some degree of intolerance to it, even the healthy ones. I like Ray's approach the most out of them all, because he actually focuses on biological processes that occur inside the body rather than, for example, bro-science based approach of going back to some imaginary past and eating a diet that people from 200.000 thousand years ago might have eaten. The one problem I have is that Ray seems over-enthusiastic about dairy. I get it, it fits his approach perfectly, at least at the surface level.

I have read your story by the way, it's very impressive.

Thank you. :)

No worries. I understood you weren’t denying that there are people who have had success with dairy. No doubt there are plenty who have issues with it—myself included, back when I had SIBO. The ones I know of outside of this forum who don’t tolerate dairy have some form of an intestinal disorder like IBS and ulcerative colitis, but they have issues with many foods, not just dairy. I honestly don’t even know how enthusiastic Ray is about dairy now, given he has greatly lowered his protein intake. I was averaging at least 50 g of protein just from fruit alone so the addition of milk would bump it way up to what he used to recommend for a minimum protein intake. All I know is, I agree with Ray that we should consume what tastes good to us as this starts the digestive process. Dairy is the one food that has always hit the spot for me. Within my first sip or bite of it, I just feel a satisfaction I don’t get from any other food. If I got that same satisfaction from meat or starch, I would be consuming them without an ounce of fear or regret.

 

[Badger]

Or: If Peating works, where are all the testimonials?

I'm listening to the new book called "brain energy" where he argues that metabolic problems are at the root of human suffering.

He doesn't mentioned Dr. Peat, but it seems to me that what he has unearthed is what Dr. Peat as been speaking about

So my question is: as anyone been able to radically improve their well-being by Peating?

Edit: by "he" I mean the author of the book. I was going to add a link but forgot. Here it is:Brain Energy: A Revolutionary Breakthrough in Understanding Mental Health--and Improving Treatment for Anxiety, Depression, OCD, PTSD, and More: Palmer MD, Christopher M.: 9781637741580: Amazon.com: Books

Author of this book was recently interviewed by Tim Ferriss. Palmer certaintly sounds like he was heavily influenced by Peat, but no mention of Peat in the very interesting and moving interview. Am waiting for Palmer's book and will look there for Peat mentioned:

Chris Palmer, MD, of Harvard Medical School — Optimizing Brain Energy for Mental Health, The Incredible Potential of Metabolic Psychiatry, Extraordinary Case Studies, and Harnessing Mitochondria for Anxiety, Depression, OCD, PTSD, and More (#633)​

Chris Palmer, MD, of Harvard Medical School — Optimizing Brain Energy for Mental Health, The Incredible Potential of Metabolic Psychiatry, Extraordinary Case Studies, and Harnessing Mitochondria for Anxiety, Depression, OCD, PTSD, and More (#633) - T

Interview with Chris Palmer, MD on The Tim Ferriss Show podcast

tim.blog

 

[HighT]

of course too, several forms of dairy can be chosen from, like greek yogurt and cheeses with a beter tollerance for the predigestion of the protein induces changes to it's structure and imporves the absorption.

I was already eating tons of yogurt and feta like cheese before discovering this forum. But drinking milk is something else. Yesterday I drank 3 cups of milk UHT store bought one of wich with cocoa and white sugar and Ive been warm troughout the day. Especialy in the evening had very pleasent feeling of warmth.

I use to had cold palms and feet and starting drinking coffee healed it. Orange juice made them literally hot. But I had to give it up cause gave me painfull teeth. Now Im cutting coffee to 1/3 and I get again cold palms. So definetally some Peat stuff is working thou I would disagree with some others.

 

[canadianboymike]

absolutely mega bigtime hellyeah

avoiding PUFA and using niacinamide-aspirin-vitamin-e fix my chronic inflammation and hairloss and depression and improve sleep.

Sugar over starches and bacillus subtilus sporebiotics and carrots and bran -edit- +cascara, fixed my digestion, IBS, constipationa while improving mood and cognitive function and energy.

etc etc

I’ve had similar experiences. But what have you found the benefits of the vitamin E were? Can you recommend any brands I can try on Amazon?

 

[truegrit]

I think Dr. Peat’s ideas are best understood as an organon of sorts—a way to think about things. Some incorrectly interpret him as prescriptive, but that’s sort of against the spirit of his work.

Have his ideas helped me? Incontestably yes. I used to do extended fasting and lots of fish oil, think sugar and dairy were conspiring to kill me, etc. Lots of the mainstream dietary ideas, in other words. I now freely enjoy sugar and dairy and fruit and (sourdough) bread, and although it didn’t happen overnight, as I got healthier I actually got leaner too. I bring this up only as a counterpoint to the persistent idea that one necessarily gains weight while “Peating.” Perhaps that’s true initially, but not in the long run.

A note on the dairy: although I readily accept others’ contrary experiences ITT, here’s some anecdote. I was a person who voluntarily avoided dairy despite being able to digest it because society at large convinced me it was bad. I’ve done a complete 180 on this. I’m probably now in the camp of the more the better. So while I certainly do not view dairy intolerance as a moral failing, I think one should endeavor to correct the underlying issue(s) that prevent one from consuming it. On balance it is a nutritionally valuable food group and one should include it if possible.

 

[Zpol]

I got better by applying his principles moreso than dietary advice.

The dietary advice in which he states that almost any food or substance is harmful in a stressed state was helpful in the beginning though for me. Understanding this concept was huge.

At first I didn't really understand how to apply his principles. Then I read William Blake and I began to understand. You have to "cleanse the doors of perception" in order to truly break free from the grip of stress. Do that and you can eat anything, do anything, and not be phased. Obviously don't go full on fight club, but hopefully you get what I mean.

 

[PeskyPeater]

I’ve had similar experiences. But what have you found the benefits of the vitamin E were? Can you recommend any brands I can try on Amazon?

The effects of vitamin E are mild. I feel it gives more a calming energy. Seems to have most effect on cell healing when taken before sleep via the autophagy mTOR pathway. for example: Akt/AMPK/mTOR pathway was involved in the autophagy induced by vitamin E succinate in human gastric cancer SGC-7901 cells - PubMed

And should be able to help to recover endothelial cells faster in arteries, the stomach and gut etc.

-edit-
200 iu per day is what I take from Now foods 100 softgels mixed tocopherols with olive oil. 400 ui is too much as vit e recycles you may take such high amounts weekly interval

 

[PeskyPeater]

@PeskyPeater If a person needs a higher level of health to 'tolerate' certain food then it's not a good healing food, period, and therefore why is it recommended to sick people?

If you put it that way, then yes you have a point. tolerability can be a matter of missing expressions of enzymes in the gut from hypotheyroidsim or imflammation.

I have noticed on this forum over the years that there's a certain pattern where people can't tolerate dairy at all for years and years and they need to achieve a certain level of health to be able to tolerate it. They achieve it through methods that do not include dairy. Once they get to that point they can indeed maybe include dairy and achieve even better health, but many never get there and just give up on dairy (and this whole nutritional approach) and leave the forum. Some are stuck in a perpetual wrestling match between their own n=1 and Ray's view of dairy.
There's also the problem that there's a lot of healthy people coming here who seek to 'optimize' and frankly I don't really care about their opinion and which foods they tolerate. A lot of people also need various hormonal supplements to be able to include dairy in their diet . It's a highly problematic food in general.
I urge you to do a search around the forum and see for yourelf; how many people with serious crippling health issues can include lots of dairy in their diet and heal that way? People with hypothyroidism, male/female hypogonadism, PCOS etc.
The rate limiting factor of every diet is the health of the participants so I'm not sure what the point is here. The healthier people trying the diet the better the outcome. The trick is to include severly sick people and have them reclaim their health.

EDIT: also another point is that there are people on this forum who have perfect health if they exclude dairy.

using raw goat milk at teaspoon at the time and working your way up weekly, is a way to tolerate any other milk again. The body may adapt.
If this doesnt work then I believe there is either hypothyroid issues and or microbiome dysbiosis. Then I would advise broda barnes method and a bacterie spore like bacillus subtilis that can survive stomach acid and settle in the small intestine and colon.

 

[stoic]

Diets such as keto or carnivore are known for their short-term "benefits" (probably due to reduced toxin load and higher stress hormones), and are backed by many influencers whose incomes depend on positive testimonials. Peat, on the other hand, never cared about marketing his work, and this forum is probably one of the rare ones where people are almost completely free to share their negative opinions, as antithetical or provocative they might be. The nature of this forum, and of Peat's philosophy itself, is more conducive to moderate optimism than to enthusiastic fanaticism. But unlike fad diets, Ray Peat's principles are visionary and their proven validity will only increase in time.

 

[Coyote]

Yeah, my health improved in very short order. like in a few weeks. I am leaning on aspirin, vitamin E, and pyrucet quite a bit for carb utilization, as well as progest-e and CDG for estrogen dominance, thyroid for thyroid, metergoline and lisuride for an extra mental boost since I have some lingering ADHD, so maybe you can call it symptom management still... but I am much better when it comes to energy, creativity, motivation, mental clarity and verbal fluency, focus, autoimmune pain, digestion, no migraines, raynaud's no longer my default state, and no longer peeing every 30 minutes. A2 dairy seems great for my digestion too though tolerances are a little iffy. it's either that or starch though, fruit just isn't enough on its own, and dairy seems less problematic for me. maybe I need to alternate.

I am far from perfect health and still trying to heal gut and endotoxin issues, but these interventions are excellent and my quality of life skyrocketed. I have been unwell and low energy for most of my life and dealing with worsening health and increasing disability in recent years so to have this energy, warmth, optimistic mood and easy deep sleep even still needing supplements is huge. it has only been maybe 2 months that I've started, after stopping some niacin therapy due to it creating liver problems.

many years ago I spent a lot of time on keto-paleo, and it completely wrecked my metabolism despite feeling great at first. It was one of a few inciting incidents that led me to the awful point I was at at the beginning of this year. For contrast: terrible chronic pain and swelling/pinched nerves in my arms and back, chronic migraines, tiny amounts of movement leading to lactic acid buildup, terrible emotional reactivity, air hunger, brain fog, raynaud's, difficulty speaking fluently, peeing all the time, inability to stay asleep or go back to sleep, no gut motility and diverticulitis... all kinds of hypothyroid signs. all this to say.... Peat good.