Buteyko - What's Your CP?

[Ewelina]

Yeah this and what mirc said.

Eating a lot and having a high metabolism seems to decrease CP time.

People who posted above with high CP's (over 20s) - whats your temps like? Do you have good metabolisms?

My morning temperature on average is 37.2 C. I have good metabolism but I also have high stress hormones.

 

[m_arch]

I have CP above 35 and temps about 37. Started with CP 12 and temps maybe 36. Got CP up 50 but had cold feets and low temps so i knew something isnt right. Found peat and got temps up while maintaining a relatively good CP:)
so yes you can push the CP by lowering the metabolism but you can also improve CP AND Metabolismus in my experience.

Thats interesting. What technique did you use to get it up to 50?

 

[m_arch]

Probably about 2 months. I was practicing with a bag 15 minutes 3 or 4 times a day. I noticed an improvement in sleep quality almost instantly. However, now I got a bit lazy and don't do any bag breathing or breathing exercises in general. I have no doubts that Buteyko is very helpful but at the beginning I was hoping that just increasing CO2 would solve many heath issues, wheras now I think that the relationship between practicing Buteyko and inflammation is interdependent. It's very difficult to keep good breathing habits when there is something wrong going on in the gut and helping the gut would almost automatically improve breathing.

You only used bag breathing as a technique?
I've heard others notice the effects of gut health on co2 as well.

 

[Ahanu]

Thats interesting. What technique did you use to get it up to 50

I did the basic buteyko exercise 2 to 3 times a day. The steps exercise. Mouth tape. Breatholds. 3 to 4 times exercise per week, mostly running with mouth closed and relaxation techniques.

 

[m_arch]

I did the basic buteyko exercise 2 to 3 times a day. The steps exercise. Mouth tape. Breatholds. 3 to 4 times exercise per week, mostly running with mouth closed and relaxation techniques.

Thanks for sharing.
How long did you do the basic buteyko exercise for 3x a day?

 

[Ahanu]

6 months maybe. Then a few months just 2 a day and then i stopped.
But basic awareness of my breath is still there.

 

[m_arch]

6 months maybe. Then a few months just 2 a day and then i stopped.
But basic awareness of my breath is still there.

Sorry I meant how long was each session? 15 minutes?

 

[Ahanu]

Sorry I meant how long was each session? 15 minutes?

Ah sorry, about 20 minutes.

 

[Ewelina]

You only used bag breathing as a technique?
I've heard others notice the effects of gut health on co2 as well.

Mainly bag breathing, but I was also very conscious of my breathing in general and was doing breath holds whenever I hyperventilated. The most troublesome is the night bc I can't control my breathing, however I never breathe through the mouth even when running (which I do only when I have to run for my life).

 

[Steven Bussinger]

I have CP above 35 and temps about 37. Started with CP 12 and temps maybe 36. Got CP up 50 but had cold feets and low temps so i knew something isnt right. Found peat and got temps up while maintaining a relatively good CP:)
so yes you can push the CP by lowering the metabolism but you can also improve CP AND Metabolismus in my experience.

So it would seem that CP is not an indicator of one's health status.

My CP is around 10. I'm 26 and consider myself to be healthy (all inflammatory markers are low and going lower), but according to Buteyko I'm on death's doorstep. I consider my metabolism to be good; when people around me need blankets and hoodies, I am comfortable in sweatpants and a tank top. Maybe it's because I live at 5,820 ft.

 

[Ahanu]

So it would seem that CP is not an indicator of one's health status.

yes, i think so. there are too many variables. better, as you did, take various different markers.

Just taking temperature and puls can also be very misleading.
Sleep and digestion are my Favorit health markers, together with temperature & puls, absence of the yearly flue or cold, healthy teeth and mental flexibility one can get a pretty good picture of ones health.

i don´t know but maybe taking the CP at higher altitude gives different(lower) scores?

 

[shepherdgirl]

Has anyone seen the BBC documentary on the Buteyko method with Sasha Stolmatsky? It is on youtube. Of the three people who finished his 5-day course, on the final day one had a CP over 30, and one had mid 50s (before the course both had very serious asthma). Also i thought they both looked much healthier than before they took the course. The third student had a CP of 90 (she was very young and relatively well). They did this in five days, apparently with a very concentrated program, and it looked very difficult. After trying for at least a couple months last year i think my highest CP was 22, but mostly in the teens, and I thought I was in much better shape than some of Stolmatsky's students! But it gives me hope that it is possible to bring my CP up too. I found the drop in my pulse from practicing the exercises to be kind of scary. Not sure how to measure metabolism anymore. I guess temperature only?

 

[Ahanu]

Has anyone seen the BBC documentary on the Buteyko method with Sasha Stolmatsky? It is on youtube. Of the three people who finished his 5-day course, on the final day one had a CP over 30, and one had mid 50s (before the course both had very serious asthma). Also i thought they both looked much healthier than before they took the course. The third student had a CP of 90 (she was very young and relatively well). They did this in five days, apparently with a very concentrated program, and it looked very difficult. After trying for at least a couple months last year i think my highest CP was 22, but mostly in the teens, and I thought I was in much better shape than some of Stolmatsky's students! But it gives me hope that it is possible to bring my CP up too. I found the drop in my pulse from practicing the exercises to be kind of scary. Not sure how to measure metabolism anymore. I guess temperature only?

i saw it. it is impressive. they measured actually the maximum pause not the control pause(cp) you can see that after a while they stand up to go while holding their breath. that is to suppress the need to breath in even more. i think this is even more than the maximum pause. it is called something like absolut maximum pause.
i wouldnt be worried by your drop in your puls. it can have many reasons. increased co2 can have such an affect as ray peat said. it could also be that your puls was high because of too much adrenalin and is going down becauseof the exercises, what would be positive, i think.

just be aware how your sleep is, your bowel movements and your temperature. together with your CP you won´t go in the wrong direction. if you are practicing buteyko just be carefull about the diet recommendations. i dont think they are all helpfull. also bellybreathing is a tricky thing. for that better look into the alexander technique or even gokhale method.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Thanks Ahanu. Yes, probably my pulse was too high because of adrenalin. You mentioned belly breathing - I do not remember any recommendations about it in the book I read. Are you saying that belly breathing should be diaphragmatic? How does the style of belly breathing help with retaining CO2? Thanks.

 

[Ahanu]

I do not remember any recommendations about it in the book I read. Are you saying that belly breathing should be diaphragmatic? How does the style of belly breathing help with retaining CO2? Thanks.

It doesnt, but in many books it is recommendet. So just dont think about it.

 

[shepherdgirl]

A question for people who have managed to increase their CP significantly: in your opinion, how has this affected you mentally? Especially regarding mental performance, ability to concentrate, sense of well-being, emotionality, work ethic? Thanks in advance.

 

[ecstatichamster]

My CP went from 8 to 45. It was a long hard journey and I became a Buteyko coach and have helped many people from very serious diseases. But I think it also lowered my metabolism. My pulse rate fell, my temps fell. Now I'm in the process of trying to bring it all back up.

Everything became better for me with higher CP. However, now with higher temps (though not where I want to be) I have hugely beneficial mental and physical effects. My erections have never been better, and my libido and sexual performance (I hate that word) has never been better. And I feel mentally much better and my anxiety levels are much lower.

This didn't happen just with raising my CP though. I believe nothing trumps a high CP, but there are other things that go with it, that I wish I had known about sooner. Chiefly that higher CO2 via Buteyko lowers metabolic rate, IMHO. I think it's still worth it, but also it would be useful to maintain metabolic rate while raising CO2.

For instance, what raises CO2 is
cold showers
sleeping cold
being cold
eating very little
low carb

What lowers metabolism is
cold showers
sleeping cold
being cold
eating very little
low carb

See the problem?

 

[Ahanu]

with increasing CP i felt much calmer in stressful situations. that alone was worth the exercises.

 

[shepherdgirl]

Thanks Hamster and Ahanu for your answers - very inspiring. It seems to me that you both have an increased sense of well-being, besides all the other benefits. I definitely want to start working on my CP again.
Hamster, if you had to do it over, how would you balance your CP progress with the resultant metabolic changes?
Do you think that if I tried to slowly raise CP my metabolic rate would slowly adjust?
Thinking I will try PUFA depletion with a VLF diet for several weeks first to hopefully raise metabolism a bit, maybe not simultaneously with CP exercises since eating fat free and being cold from lowering metabolism in the winter is not exactly my idea of a party!

 

[Steven Bussinger]

CO2, brainstem chemoreceptors and breathing. - PubMed - NCBI

CO2, brainstem chemoreceptors and breathing.

"Small increases in CO2 produce large increases in breathing. Decreases in CO2 below normal can, in sleep and anesthesia, decrease breathing, even to apnea."