Calling Time On Ray Peat

[kayumochi]

The only problem is that you (and others) have set up (another) food religion and now you are disappointed it has failed you ... Some of us begin with a different premise: Peat is correct about some things and wrong about others and no one has or ever will have "the full picture" ... John Harvey Kellogg initiated the modern food religion and people have been caught up in this nonsense ever since ...

 

[Tarmander]

It's amazing how attacked some of you feel when someone dares leave the 'sect', or wants to explore different ways of thinking. Just relax. The reality is that there are a lot of people struggling on this forum. The guy/girl is perfectly ok to talk about his/her doubts and his/her problems. No need to kick him/her in the face when he/she is down, directionless and (probably) confused.

And Westside PUFA criticising somebody for not being 'fun to be around'. LOL. Good one. You know that your life is in the toilet when that guy is saying you are no fun

It is amazing how some new members, being here for less then a month, seem to put all the people on this board into a little box and diagnose it as cultish/sect behavior. Being unread, uninformed, and seemingly unwilling to look around at the myriad of people and different experiences discussed on this board makes comments like this worth less then toilet paper. At least toilet paper has some use in soaking up crap. Your dedication to some imaginary, indescribable, middle that lets you hurl calls for "moderation in everything," does not make you wise or intelligent.

I agree with you Tarmander, there are some things that I would just not do now that I know better. I won't spend money on fish oil (thank goodness, what a rip off!), won't take SSRIs, always look out for gums and carageenan, won't use artificial sweeteners and know that real sugar is ok, would NEVER take birth control medications of any kind, I'm not scared of dairy anymore, I take my thyroid (t3) several times throughout the day as it has a shorter half-life (which has made a HUGE difference, especially with sleeping), would never cook with canola or vegetable oil as I used to frequently, buy refined coconut oil instead of overpriced virgin, won't juice carrots as I used to occasionally thinking it was super healthy, drink oj again, drink coffee without the guilt, eat as much salt as I like, take calcium carbonate and don't spend any money on it, try to eat collagen or bone broth with muscle meats because I know an imbalance of too much tryptophan is not good, and I don't buy whole grain foods.

I have learned a lot more than this but these are now part of my life no matter what else I decide to take from Ray Peat's work. And I know it's for the better because my health has improved dramatically already.

Nice. You expanded a bit on what I was saying, those are all good examples.

 

[cyclops]

Peat is correct about some things and wrong about others and no one has or ever will have "the full picture"

It sounds like you are saying there is a definite right and a definite wrong though. In that case why wouldn't we at some point in the future be able to have the full picture and everything right?

 

[Ideonaut]

(Ray's ideas . . . don't lead to any new or helpful knowledge

Disagree. His ideas about PUFAs, iron overload, benefits of gelatin, progesterone, thyroid, etc., are in my view incontrovertible and supremely helpful.

 

[Makrosky]

Until now I have not really found much help and I will step back from the high fruit diet, because what is sweet leads me to be hungry all the time, as Garfield say, what does between meals means?

Same thing here. I didn't realize how addicted to food/calories/sugar I have become until reading gbol's posts. It made me realize that. It is not practical at all. I probably have low glycogen storate or sugar stability problems :-/

 

[alywest]

It sounds like you are saying there is a definite right and a definite wrong though. In that case why wouldn't we at some point in the future be able to have the full picture and everything right?

I agree. That's why I like Ray Peat as opposed to, say, an average doctor who seems to base recommendations and prescriptions on the illness as described in a textbook. Peat leaves a lot open for potential factors that can't be explained by any single diagnosis. Doctors say "you are in this box," Peat perhaps says something more like "there are all these boxes and this is how they fit together and why you may be experiencing this and this and this." It's not black and white and some people prefer black and white.

 

[Tarmander]

It sounds like you are saying there is a definite right and a definite wrong though. In that case why wouldn't we at some point in the future be able to have the full picture and everything right?

Yeah I definitely think his recommendations on Milk and OJ just don't work for the majority of people. But it works for some.

Same thing here. I didn't realize how addicted to food/calories/sugar I have become until reading gbol's posts. It made me realize that. It is not practical at all. I probably have low glycogen storate or sugar stability problems :-/

Yeah I can empathize with this. Since adding HCL to my meals, I am able to go a lot longer without constantly eating. I think I had problems breaking down food, which may stem from the starvation practices I did in the past. I probably was not breaking down protein properly either...I think your experience, which matches mine, is probably indicative that you are basically only absorbing sugar, and a little protein/fat. Just a guess Have you tried adding HCL to meals?

 

[kayumochi]

It sounds like you are saying there is a definite right and a definite wrong though. In that case why wouldn't we at some point in the future be able to have the full picture and everything right?

I am not saying that at all. I have no food religion.

 

[Xisca]

Same thing here. I didn't realize how addicted to food/calories/sugar I have become until reading gbol's posts. It made me realize that. It is not practical at all. I probably have low glycogen storage or sugar stability problems :-/

Yes, not practical at all. I went to see my familly and they were shocked I was in so big an urgency to stop for eating.... I explained that I would loose the advantage of progesterone -according to K. Dalton- if I went down even once in hypoglycemia...
And I cannot go out without being sure to have bananas or dry fruits to eat.

It seems that this low storage comes from loosing sensibility to cortisol when eating too frequently. I used to be the reverse: I could feel I was calling some inner strength form my body, something powerful and stable. Now I feel a more superficial energy, difficult to describe a feeling....

 

[cyclops]

I am not saying that at all. I have no food religion.

I think I may have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that there is a definite "right" and "wrong" way. I was saying its probably all about context. Some things may be right for some people and wrong for others.

 

[kayumochi]

As far as having a "full picture" ... the human brain has 100 billion cells. Which one is *you?* The human body has 37 trillion cells. Which ones do *you* control? Those trillions of cells have trillions of interactions every second of every day. How many are *you* aware of?

 

[cyclops]

As far as having a "full picture" ... the human brain has 100 billion cells. Which one is *you?* The human body has 37 trillion cells. Which ones do *you* control? Those trillions of cells have trillions of interactions every second of every day. How many are *you* aware of?

Maybe one day in the infinite future some beings will know these things

 

[Xisca]

no one has or ever will have "the full picture"

Right...

His ideas about PUFAs, iron overload, benefits of gelatin, progesterone, thyroid, etc., are in my view incontrovertible and supremely helpful.

yes but how do you know in what case you are, for example too low in iron?

I definitely think his recommendations on Milk and OJ just don't work for the majority of people. But it works for some.

Same problem, we do not get enough understanding to guess, and then we try, and if it works, super great! Then maybe it work no more.... or it does not work from the start, and then waht? We over did? We did not enough? Have to go on and hope for a change?

There has to be a way to guess a little better before trying. That should be the purpose of a forum, just because we can compare the type of problem we deal with. If we do not know why something works for us, then we just blindly tell everybody to do the same as us!

Have you tried adding HCL to meals?

In my case: It helped me to get back to my base line after being ill, but now just one lamberts pill make my stomach burn!
I really am on the track of cortisol... and also digestive enzymes, as pancreas seems to be behind protein digestion too. I do not remember what I found but there was a link between cortisol and pancreas in my findings on the web (not from the forum, just ordinary knowledge from the web about pancreas and cortisol)

 

[John Frusciante]

I don't think Peat recommends "crappy" light milk. It sucks if thats all you can get. Whats your current diet now?

In the US, he drinks low fat commercial milk. He told me that.

 

[Makrosky]

Yes, not practical at all. I went to see my familly and they were shocked I was in so big an urgency to stop for eating.... I explained that I would loose the advantage of progesterone -according to K. Dalton- if I went down even once in hypoglycemia...
And I cannot go out without being sure to have bananas or dry fruits to eat.

It seems that this low storage comes from loosing sensibility to cortisol when eating too frequently. I used to be the reverse: I could feel I was calling some inner strength form my body, something powerful and stable. Now I feel a more superficial energy, difficult to describe a feeling....

Yeah... it shocks people. I get very agitated. It didn't use to be like that before peating. I didn't realize it until I started reading gbol's posts. It's really annoying, this is not healthy for sure.

 

[Makrosky]

Yeah I definitely think his recommendations on Milk and OJ just don't work for the majority of people. But it works for some.

Yeah I can empathize with this. Since adding HCL to my meals, I am able to go a lot longer without constantly eating. I think I had problems breaking down food, which may stem from the starvation practices I did in the past. I probably was not breaking down protein properly either...I think your experience, which matches mine, is probably indicative that you are basically only absorbing sugar, and a little protein/fat. Just a guess Have you tried adding HCL to meals?

Hmmmm makes sense! It could be. I have good pulse/temp I don't understand why should I have low HCL. Anyway I'm gonna give it a try, if it has worked for you. Also tyw recommended it. Could you please share your exact protocol ? Oh and another question : What's the difference about using an HCL protocol and not just using some digestive enzyme caps ? The digestive enzymes should help much more than HCL, right ?

I also think maybe I'm just not metabolizing calories properly (low thyroid) or constant high stress hormones. Could be any of those. But as I said I normally have good temp/pulse (36.8 C oral-82bpm) so... strange... My TSH is low. But I realized after using redlight on my thyroid that maybe it's stress hormones cause I have cold feet (they become warm after using the redlight). Dunno. I think being slave to sugar is no way to live, that is for sure.

 

[burtlancast]

and I don't worry about food and iron and vitamin C and all that stuff, it just causes unnecessary concern.

If Ray Peat even lives to 100, I will eat my shoe with PUFA sauce drizzled on top.

If that's true (instead of bravado) then it shows you never belonged here in the first place.

 

[alywest]

It's really about self-disciplined honesty as opposed to cultish dietary commandments, and that's easier said than done. I wish I had better self-discipline, but I also know Ray Peat is not going to pop out of the bushes and yell at you if you drink a bottle of vegetable oil (but God help you!) I think it's harder to be honest about the things that aren't good for you (if you like them) than the things that are. I think we all intuitively know if we like something, and if it happens to be "good for us" then we're like "yes!" But if it turns out to be bad we're like "oh, let me try cooking it this way, or topping it with cheese, or eating it only during a full moon..."

 

[Tarmander]

Hmmmm makes sense! It could be. I have good pulse/temp I don't understand why should I have low HCL. Anyway I'm gonna give it a try, if it has worked for you. Also tyw recommended it. Could you please share your exact protocol ? Oh and another question : What's the difference about using an HCL protocol and not just using some digestive enzyme caps ? The digestive enzymes should help much more than HCL, right ?

They definitely could! I used to get insomnia from the enzymes so I have not tried them out in a long time, but I am getting some next week to give a go to.

My protocol was to buy 250grams from bulk supplements on Amazon. I did about 1/4 of a teaspoon per meal. Careful when it's a powder, it will chew up your teeth and esophagus. I swallow it with a thick grape juice really quickly and that seems to work.

From there I got less water retention, much flatter blood sugar profile, less hunger, felt better. So I kept upping it until now I do almost a teaspoon per meal. I am just starting to get some burning feeling in my stomach and base of throat, so I am probably at the upper limit. Almost done with the 250g bag too which is kind of mind blowing.

There is also this HCL test you can google. I did that and got no burning whatsoever, meaning I did not have enough stomach acid. Combined that with low Chloride on blood tests, and high Co2, and I thought that gbold's recommendation of HCL might be right. It has been so far!

 

[Xisca]

lol Burt, it is not about belonging!
That would just mean here is a cult, if you belong or not.
But I can understand to be fed up about being careful about what is going into us. You eat out and you go and ask what is the oil they cooked with! Of course they should never use soy oil and it is a pity, but it is very harmful to have to be afraid - thus stressed- of what is just food for others!