Tell me about what you, specifically, experienced.
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Crafting an Optimal Peaty Androgenic/Anabolic Hormone Stack
- Thread starter JCub369
- Start date
Tell me about what you, specifically, experienced.
I think the ideal hormone ratio for men would be :
High DHT , High Progesterone , High Pregnenolone
Med T , Med DHEA
Low E , Low Cortisol
I know this is a simplified view but this is what I am trying to achieve with this stack.
I would appreciate any research on Med-High T levels/high DHT levels being negative for men as many here are referring too.
If anyone disagrees with the ratios I listed above please post your recommend ratios so we can learn/discuss together :)
High DHT , High Progesterone , High Pregnenolone
Med T , Med DHEA
Low E , Low Cortisol
I know this is a simplified view but this is what I am trying to achieve with this stack.
I would appreciate any research on Med-High T levels/high DHT levels being negative for men as many here are referring too.
If anyone disagrees with the ratios I listed above please post your recommend ratios so we can learn/discuss together :)
You don't need any.
You just need to listen to those of us who have tried high DHT and tell you that it will crush your e2 and you will feel terrible.
Your lower back will be blocked, your knees will hurt, your skin will be dry.
The myth of high DHT being good ends now.
High DHT in serum is already something to lift your eyebrows at. It's not a sign of excessive vitality.
Btw, I take you as the master experimenter.
Have you perhaps noticed any correlations between the area of application of DHT with severity or lack of E2 symptoms? I would imagine putting DHT on balls would bring on low E2 symptoms quite fast. Partially because of how thin the skin is there and partially because of high concentration of AR, and the inhibitory effect of DHT on aromatase, and likely low 3beta hsd and 3alpha hsd activity (which would convert DHT to estrogen metabolites, especially 3b-diol, a potent agonist of ERbeta). But applying it to fat heavy tissues like "love handles" etc - does that change anything? Or is there no noticeable difference?
Lower quality sleep, skin degeneration, shutdown, not feeling myself, out of character/awkward feelings inside, lower sperm count.
Most side effects are internal and are connected to the glands especially the thymus as well as cns. Might take decades to manifest into serious issues. I did not have Liver issues personally but all hormones take a lot of effort to breakdown by the liver. Meaning it takes away from its capacity to keep the system as clean as possible. Especially in high doses that cause elevated E.
Ofc there are positives like stress resilence and greek god body but imo they are not worth it.
Seems like a lot of conjectures that you have no bloodwork or analysis to support.
Yeah sure. Don't have labs except for the lower sperm count and almost complete shutdown from exogenous T which is well known side effect. How is that a conjecture ?
What bloodwork do you want for lower quality sleep from CNS over stimulation causing less regeneration/degeneration ?
Again, the extremely bad effects of T on the thymus is in the literature. TRT does not lead to optimal health. It leads to degeneration.
Also, what labs do you need to see that when you take the T by mouth the liver does its best to neutralize it and remove it immediately from the system ? If it was so good for us would it not let it pass ? Does that not take away from the detox capacity of the liver ? Why do you have to add a methyl group to distract it on the first pass ? Is your liver stupid ?
Again, conjectures based on "literature" and what you "can feel".
Again, conjectures on you "feeling" your liver detoxing, whatever detoxing means, it's not even a medical term or valid concept.
Charger
Member
I remember you had dropped T for high doses of DHEA, what happened with that?
Have you settled on transdermal T being the most beneficial overall? Did you ever figure out a solution for the 'autistic' symptoms you and others experienced with test?
I think it's not wise to take other people's experiences as absolute guidelines.
When it comes to TRT, though, more is always worse if one's goal is longevity. It's simply too taxing for the body to deal with that much oxidative stress for longer periods of time. The only way to counter this to important degree (but not completely) would be strategic supplementation of needed minerals, vitamins and aminos (not just random ones, obviously, which will just make matters worse). This is not even debatable. In fact, there's actually only rare cases for which TRT is the *only* sensible thing to do, and those cases always involve actual organ damage (or lack of them, like missing testicles because of cancer). One doesn't even need studies for this.
The reason for low levels of testosterone in the "natty" state is as a rule always explainable by referring to various nutrient deficiences, acute or latent infections, heavy metal toxicities etc. (this on the surface sounds unconvincing and too vague but it's much more informative than other standard responses). Also, it's an entirely different matter if one's natural state is that of high test, other steroids etc. (which is, of course, not automatically a sign of good health) vs if one takes high dosed TRT. Taking exogenous steroids which will result in levels of steroids that exceed natural production will always be reflected in changes in energy metabolism, mineral and vitamin and amino acid metabolism etc. - changes that in the long term cannot benefit the user. It simply cannot - to argue with this is to argue with how evolution by natural selection works.
Also, isn't detox a perfectly viable technical term. A shorthand for metabolic detoxification. Which is a shorthand for the processes in the body that remove molecules deemed by the body to be unneeded or in some way toxic (which doesn't necessarily mean bad, just dangerous in the context of what the body is dealing with). This concept is crucial to understand why exogenous hormones of any kind cannot be a fit for someone looking for longevity.
When it comes to TRT, though, more is always worse if one's goal is longevity. It's simply too taxing for the body to deal with that much oxidative stress for longer periods of time. The only way to counter this to important degree (but not completely) would be strategic supplementation of needed minerals, vitamins and aminos (not just random ones, obviously, which will just make matters worse). This is not even debatable. In fact, there's actually only rare cases for which TRT is the *only* sensible thing to do, and those cases always involve actual organ damage (or lack of them, like missing testicles because of cancer). One doesn't even need studies for this.
The reason for low levels of testosterone in the "natty" state is as a rule always explainable by referring to various nutrient deficiences, acute or latent infections, heavy metal toxicities etc. (this on the surface sounds unconvincing and too vague but it's much more informative than other standard responses). Also, it's an entirely different matter if one's natural state is that of high test, other steroids etc. (which is, of course, not automatically a sign of good health) vs if one takes high dosed TRT. Taking exogenous steroids which will result in levels of steroids that exceed natural production will always be reflected in changes in energy metabolism, mineral and vitamin and amino acid metabolism etc. - changes that in the long term cannot benefit the user. It simply cannot - to argue with this is to argue with how evolution by natural selection works.
Also, isn't detox a perfectly viable technical term. A shorthand for metabolic detoxification. Which is a shorthand for the processes in the body that remove molecules deemed by the body to be unneeded or in some way toxic (which doesn't necessarily mean bad, just dangerous in the context of what the body is dealing with). This concept is crucial to understand why exogenous hormones of any kind cannot be a fit for someone looking for longevity.
Inj, subQ, muscle. Trandermal, transcrotal, oral, sublingual. Different combibation and ratios with DHT and other hormones. Small moderate and big doses.
Its all BS compared to the natural state if one gets healthy.
I had azoospermia my dude. And had labs several times. The whole system got sht down. You are just trying to stick to your beliefs and not looking at things objectively.
I think you need to read a bit about what the Liver function is if you believe detox is not a real thing. If your liver was not detoxing your plasma all the time you would die very quickly.
DHEA is estrogenic and induces anxiety, even at high doses transdermal.
How about every one takes the hormone that makes them feel best so we can live life outdoors and stop arguing with strangers over a forum ?
I have objective experience with more than 17 synthetic hormones over the past 5 years, it's more than beliefs at this stage.
That's fair
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