burtlancast
Member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 3,263
Including the TB vaccine is somewhat dubious because no one claims vaccines eradicated TB in the US. Not all vaccines have worked.
The quote exposes the fact vaccinated folks came down with BT at a greater rate than those unvaccinated.
And the inaccuracy is... ?
In 1990, a UK survey involving 598 doctors revealed that over 50% of them refused to have the Hepatitis B vaccine despite belonging to the high risk group urged to be vaccinated. (British Med Jnl, 27/1/1990)
Here is the article: Attitudes of general practitioners towards their vaccination against hepatitis B.
They said they just did not get around to it, but did believe they should do it. They likely just don't think they are at risk not that they don't believe in the Hep B vaccination.
They admitted at 82% rate they should be vaccinated, and half simply didn't.
Could it be they invented, for understandable reasons, a ready-made up excuse in order to escape persecution for their opinions and/or in order to avoid being exposed as hypocrites to those patients advised to take the vaccines?
Whatever the real reason, where's the quote's innacuracy ?
-The one about measles outbreaks:
Here is the actual study: Risk Factors for Measles in a Previously Vaccinated Population and Cost-effectiveness of Revaccination Strategies
So again I'm not arguing in favor of more vaccinations, I just want good information. There are loads of verifiable data on outbreaks occurring in vaccinated people, why not use those?
And the proof for the quote being inaccurate is ..?
The included footnote reads:
"Centers for Disease Control. Measles\p=m-\United
States, 1989 and first 20 weeks 1990. MMWR.
1990;39:353-355,361-363."
Are you pretending it's not accurate just because you say so ?
In the UK, between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. (Community Disease Surveillance Centre, UK)
The problem with a quote like this is it's very hard to verify it. If you were to post an article of pertussis outbreaks where the patients who contracted it were vaccinated that would be believable, but with a quote that you can't find anywhere it causes someone to dismiss the information.
The UK surveillance centre is now called Public Health England - Centre of Infectious Disease Surveillance and Control - EPIET and I can't find any data on Pertussis from earlier than 1994. Here is the UK pertussis data page: Pertussis: guidance, data and analysis
Knock yourself out:
.The 1993 epidemic of pertussis in Cincinnati. Resurgence of disease in a highly immunized population of children:
CONCLUSIONS:
Since the 1993 pertussis epidemic in Cincinnati occurred primarily among children who had been appropriately immunized, it is clear that the whole-cell pertussis vaccine failed to give full protection against the disease.
. Clinical presentation of pertussis in fully immunized children in Lithuania
Background
In Lithuania, the vaccination coverage against pertussis is high. Nevertheless, there is a significant increase in pertussis cases in fully immunized children.
In Lithuania immunization of infants and children against pertussis has been introduced since 1956 and massive vaccination started in 1961. According to our standard vaccination schedule, pertussis whole-cell vaccine incorporated in diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP) vaccine is offered at 3, 4.5 and 6 months of age with a booster dose only at 18 months of age. In 1991, the vaccine coverage among children aged 1 year was 73.2%, whereas this percentage has been increasing and since 1996 reached above 90% (93.6% in 2000, 94.6% in 2001).
.The reason for these whole-cell vaccine failures was actually investigated during 2 controlled trials in 1996, both of which found a protection of only 36% and 48% respectively.
This can then fully explain the failure of the whole-cell pertussis vaccine to protect the vaccinated children in England during the 1970-1990 period and the (hidden) statistics associated with it.
And that's accurate.
In 1967, Ghana was declared measles free by the World Health Organisation after 96% of its population was vaccinated. In 1972, Ghana experienced one of its worst measles outbreaks with its highest ever mortality rate. (Dr H Albonico, MMR Vaccine Campaign in Switzerland, March 1990)
Ghana was not declared measles free in 1967 that is completely and utterly false. They didn't even begin vaccinating until after 1973. So again spreading false information when you could just quote an article about measles outbreaks in the US in vaccinated populations which is happening as we speak. Yet again this casts doubt on the entire list.
Just for the sake of it:
- Ghana did indeed start vaccinate against measles in 1967:
"Mass immunization against measles started in Ghana in 1967. The vaccine used is the Schwarz vaccine given via the Ped-0-Jet injector which enables about 500 vaccinations to be done within an hour. The age groups of children chosen is from 6 months to 4 years. Mass immunization was conducted in various regions by specially trained Medical Field Unit teams."
Measles and its problems as seen in Ghana. - PubMed - NCBI
- It was associated with joint smallpox vaccination, and Ghana was part of 19 African countries subject to this smallpox-measles vaccination effort.
- At one point, it was wrongly announced, late 1967, that measles would be eradicated from Ghana
"The failure to end measles disappointed some SMP staff'; Chris D'Amanda, the medical officer for Upper Volta, notes that "we weren't eradicating measles. We'd set ou to do that. That was part of our title: Smallpox/Measles Eradication. We did it with smallpox, but we in no way did it with measles."156 Some SMP staff lamented the failure of African health officials to build on the success of smallpox eradication."
But all these facts don't matter one bit.
Simply because the quote i offered comes from a doctor called Hans-Ulrich Albonico, M.D. , and the country he reported on in his original article was Gambia, not Ghana:
"Virgin soil" measles epidemics, i.e. peracute epidemics in areas with no natural incidence of the disease, are common experience. Examples are the epidemics on the Faroe Islands in 1946,(32) in Greenland in 1951,(33,34) Canada in 1952,(35) and New Guinea in 1960,(36) always with dramatically high incidence of complications and high mortality rates. Much the same has been noted in countries with enforced measles immunization programs. In Gambia, measles was said to have been eradicated in 1967, with 96% of the population immunized, but the disease broke out again in 1972, with the incidence of complications and the mortality rate increased.(37)
This above quote is absolutely correct: it was reported in the article Status of Measles in The Gambia, 1981 , which gives the reference (5)
" Organized measles vaccination was first introduced in The Gambia in 1967 as part of the West African Smallpox Eradication Program assisted by the U.S. Agency for International Development. Three mobile teams using jet injector guns vaccinated all children aged six months to four years. Independent assessment documented coverage rates for measles vaccination of 96%. By May of 1967 The Gambia became the first country in the world in which measles transmission was interrupted [5].
However, measles returned as an endemic disease in 1972."
(5) "Proceedings of the International Conference on the Application of Vaccines
Against Viral, Rickettsial, and Bacterial Diseases in Man. Pan American Health Organization, Washington, D.C., 1971, p. 207-212."
So, the true author of these quotes was correct in citing an African country originally declared free of measles then subject to a new important epidemy.
It was Gambia, not Ghana.
Again, the name of the country is incorrect, but the accuracy of the content stands valid.
This of course isn't the first time (or the last) authorities have wrongly announced measles to have been eradicated in a country.
"Q: Has measles been eliminated from the United States?
A: Yes. In 2000, the United States declared that measles was eliminated from this country. The United States eliminated measles because it has a highly effective measles vaccine, a strong vaccination program that achieves high vaccine coverage in children, and a strong public health system for detecting and responding to measles cases and outbreaks."
The Germany diptheria outbreak could be explained by World War 2.
Out of the 17 quotes i offered, i'm going to agree with you for just this one that there's a valid alternative explanation: in times of famine, immunity takes a dive, whether vaccinated or not.
In conclusion, i'm still waiting for you to offer any proof for 16 out of my 17 quotes being "dubious, of low quality scientific information, cherry picked or quacky", as you wrote.
You have offered the pro-vaccine site The Physics Police: Vaccines Work as a valid source of criticism: just a casual look will show it fails to even recognise Dr Albonico as a real person:
"This claim is completely made up! "Dr. H. Albonico" is not a real person. Apparently, he's a fictional character who supposedly self-published an article titled Vaccination campaign against measles, mumps, and rubella. A constraining project for a dubious future? which does not exist."
One can easily disprove this with google in a matter of 30 seconds.
I'm not suggesting in any way you being actually secretly pro-vaccine, but it's just too bad you let yourself being so easily misled.
In order to add any content of value to our future discussions, and avoid appearing to intentionally mislead other members, I dare suggest you offer this forum better sources of information.
(PS: i'm now definitely going to skip Mister Suzanne Humphreys and the Vit A threads)
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