Low Toxin Lifestyle Does Dr. Garrett Smith Have it Wrong, Is Anhydroretinol the Real Problem with vitamin A?

[Jabuger]

Vitamin A "toxicity" is just vitamin K deficiency. Garrett Smith has overblown the whole thing

You got any evidence for this?

 

[PopSocket]

You got any evidence for this?

Crickets.

 

[Peater]

Vitamin A "toxicity" is just vitamin K deficiency. Garrett Smith has overblown the whole thing

I'm not sure, I've been taking vitamin k for years. Started off with life extension brand then luckily found Kuinone which I prefer. I can notice separate changes/benefits from vit K supplementation and Vit A minimalisation.

 

[Blossom]

I suspect from personal experience that getting enough fiber in the diet helps feed our gut microbes that produce vitamin K. As long as I include some iceberg lettuce in my diet a few times per week and eat other foods that naturally come with fiber I no longer have signs of needing more vitamin K like easily bruising. If there’s a scientifically minded person that can confirm or refute my suspicion I’d be really grateful.

 

[youngsinatra]

I think it’s important to makes sure that the cascade of retinol metabolism from retinol >> retinaldehyde >> retinoic acid >> 4-oxo RA is running smoothly, because otherwise vit A cannot be detoxified and excreted.

I think Smith thinks of it as biotransformation, turning one compound into a more harmful compound during detoxification - similar to alcohol metabolism. But it’s necessary for complete elemination.

I think Dr. Smith likes niacin for this lately, as NAD+ is the main cofactor for those enzymes (ALDH, CYP, RDH…)

I am wondering…

It’s well-known that heavy drinking (large intake of ethanol) damages the liver by depleting NAD+ as it’s used up in the alcohol dehyrogenases.

Could the same be true for retinol? (Retinal dehydrogenase using up NAD+)

 

[charlie]

This is Dr. Garrett Smith's reply to this:

Someone else shared this here. This is the nonsense that is going on in the original Vitamin A Toxicity FB group (no I won't link them):

All Roads Lead to Anhydroretinol – Weak Therefore Strong
This is Jack Kruse-ian levels of word salad vomit science, just pure gobbledygook, even Kelsey Kenney can't make heads or tails of it
Here's a tip...when people make those giant charts (see article towards the top), that means they don't actually understand anything about what they are speaking on
Another pattern is emerging. The people who seem to have great difficulty with the low "vitamin" A diet and their children are commonly DIETITIANS. They are obviously doing something wrong and not watching their child's (probably obvious) feedback and adjusting

SARCASM: If you read the article, you'll see that our biggest mistake here is that we aren't getting "fresh retinol" from the proper sources. Now it's not just "natural vs synthetic", but now we add the "freshness" of retinol (give me a freaking break)
Do not believe everything you read on the internet, folks. The more complex the explanation, the less the author understands it. Don't even believe everything that people post here...just because someone paid the entry fee does not mean they know anything about anything

That is all. Beware the shysters who think they are smarter than they are

 

[mosaic01]

This is Jack Kruse-ian levels of word salad vomit science

That's a great way to put it. It's complete garbage indeed. She has no clue about anything.

I avoid everything that is going on around this Andrew character from the FB group.

Everytime you see something like this, run away:

 

[Peater]

It’s well-known that heavy drinking (large intake of ethanol) damages the liver by depleting NAD+ as it’s used up in the alcohol dehyrogenases.

Could the same be true for retinol? (Retinal dehydrogenase using up NAD+)

This is a superb question. They are both "-ols" and have to processed by the liver with dehydrogenase.

I have been spannering (Wrenching) my truck all day so I am in no state to start looking up biochemical pathways.

I just wanted to say it was a great question you asked.

 

[valzim]

That's a great way to put it. It's complete garbage indeed. She has no clue about anything.

I avoid everything that is going on around this Andrew character from the FB group.

Everytime you see something like this, run away:

View attachment 62157

Meri said something about every time she feeds her daughter retinol, the daughter gets wrecked. She blames it on the alcohol in the retinol mixing with the acid to make anhydroretinol. Maybe it could be the retinol itself and retinoic acid?

I think these people do not understand how much retinol is in the liver and that going low retinol will cause the liver to start dumping more. This can and does cause many problems. The check mate factor is that Grant has zero retinol and doing great. Retinol is not needed.

 

[Blossom]

This is Dr. Garrett Smith's reply to this:

I just saw his take on the topic. I’m glad he addressed it and I’m glad we are continuing the discussion here.

 

[lilrawhoney]

This is Dr. Garrett Smith's reply to this:

I watched a few videos by her recently and the first thing I noticed is she looks awful (though I'm trying hard not to use that as a marker of health, as I know we are all in different places in our journey) and the second thing is that she didn’t seem to have a good grasp on the subject at hand. There was another video of hers shared here, where she was saying that all meat is extremely high in retinol too, which obviously doesn’t track if Grant was able to get his serum retinol to zero eating tons of it.

 

[valzim]

I watched a few videos by her recently and the first thing I noticed is she looks awful (though I'm trying hard not to use that as a marker of health, as I know we are all in different places in our journey) and the second thing is that she didn’t seem to have a good grasp on the subject at hand. There was another video of hers shared here, where she was saying that all meat is extremely high in retinol too, which obviously doesn’t track if Grant was able to get his serum retinol to zero eating tons of it.

Exactly.

People can assume all of those confusing flow charts and cell diagrams mean something. But the proof is real world experience. Grant and others have proved that retinol goes to basically zero on a muscle meat diet.

 

[charlie]

But the proof is real world experience. Grant and others have proved that retinol goes to basically zero on a muscle meat diet.

Exactly. Real world results.

 

[ddjd]

I'm not sure, I've been taking vitamin k for years. Started off with life extension brand then luckily found Kuinone which I prefer. I can notice separate changes/benefits from vit K supplementation and Vit A minimalisation.

which life extension product? k1 phylloquinone has completely different effects compared to the synethetic phytonadione k1 in most supplements

 

[Peater]

which life extension product? k1 phylloquinone has completely different effects compared to the synethetic phytonadione k1 in most supplements

I can't remember now, whatever their vitamin K capsules were called.

 

[Blossom]

@Peater I’ve used life extension Super K in the past. It had k1, Mk-4 and mk-7 when I last took it.

 

[Bozidar]

Vitamin A "toxicity" is just vitamin K deficiency. Garrett Smith has overblown the whole thing

That would be really interesting to hear, why do you think that is the case?
At this point I am skeptical of everything...don't know anymore what to think

 

[charlie]

That would be really interesting to hear, why do you think that is the case?
At this point I am skeptical of everything...don't know anymore what to think

If you have been watching the low toxin groups as long as I have, you would know this is not a fluke. Testimonial after good testimonials just keep coming. And for the people I know who are on it, life just keeps getting better and better.

 

[Peater]

@Peater I’ve used life extension Super K in the past. It had k1, Mk-4 and mk-7 when I last took it.

I think the mk7 is why I stopped taking it. Or what I put down to it not working for me anyway. It's very highly dosed too iirc.

 

[DanDare]

I haven't responded to this thread because I'd rather discuss ideas than people but the short answer is experimental results is more important than theory, and Grant and his experiments and surveys remains the most compelling evidence short of my own experience.