Does high testosterone make you more likely to be gay or have ED? Some observations from guys I see/know

[Matestube]

My observation is what they told me about their background and the influences from that. No one told me their testosterone levels.

So you cannot make a correlation between your observation and their testosterone levels, because as you say, you don't know what their testosterone levels there.

Your conclusion: "Their testosterone levels had nothing to do with it" is therefore only a conjecture.

 

[tankasnowgod]

the thing to which we can grant the highest degree of credibility are our experiences,

I'd agree.

the second thing with the highest degree of credibility after that and the claims of people whom we know well enough, and whom we know from experience that these people have very little bias, and are careful enough to establish associations and eliminate as many confounding factors as possible, and we experiment to verify these claims.

Potentially agree.

the "scientific studies" are simply claims with a very low credibility rate considering that you were not there for most,you do not know enough people or not at all for the most part, so you cannot establish that they are not biased, and what are their intentions, and whether they have experienced what they claim.

Even if true, everything you said goes double or triple for anonymous comments made on the internet, or from people you don't know. Plus, if a study made an attempt to measure something (like, say, testosterone), that is going to be way more credible than someone who made zero effort to measure that same marker.

If you re-read the OP, the claim is based not on people that he "knows," nor his own personal experience, but from comments made on forums, a bodybuilder with a degree of fame, and porn actors, only one of which ever posted testosterone numbers.

So yes, a study where they form a hypothesis, recruit a couple groups of men, actually measure biomarkers, and then look at sexual behavior is going to have a lot more credibility and evidence than some random comments posted anonymously that don't even mention the levels of the hormone that the OP thinks is having some sort of effect. This is as basic as it gets.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

So you cannot make a correlation between your observation and their testosterone levels, because as you say, you don't know what their testosterone levels there.

Your conclusion: "Their testosterone levels had nothing to do with it" is therefore only a conjecture.

Sure it’s conjecture on my part. But knowing what they said and their background, I can deduce that their upbringing and environment had something to do with them becoming gay. Their background had a stronger influence than their testosterone levels imo. Thats why I said “ their testosterone levels had nothing to do with it” ie them becoming gay.

Now if they had told me they have high testosterone levels, then that might be an influence. But that fact was never made.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I'd agree.

Potentially agree.

hi,i made a mistake in my sentance"the second thing with the highest degree of credibility after that [and] the claims of people whom we know well enough",i meant "after that [are]the claims of people",instead of [and]

Even if true, everything you said goes double or triple for anonymous comments made on the internet, or from people you don't know. Plus, if a study made an attempt to measure something (like, say, testosterone), that is going to be way more credible than someone who made zero effort to measure that same marker.

I consider people's anecdotes on the forum with the same degree of credibility as "scientific studies", both gain more credibility depending on the consistency of the associations that are claimed, the claimed degree of refinement to eliminate confounding factors, and the relevance of these claims to my own experiences. There are anecdotes that have a non-existent degree of credibility considering the lack of consistency, the low degree of elimination of confounding factors, and the contradiction of these people with claims from the past. I was specifically asking you about this part of your comment
"I don't think he should give more credibility to "claims" of published texts. But if you've been on this forum for any amount of time, you should be able to read the "Materials and Methods" section of a study, and look at the published results. That will obviously tell you more than just anecdotes, or even just reading the abstract and conclusion."
wich seems to imply that the claimed"material and methods" and the published results of a claimed "scientific"study in it self tell you more than anecdotes,independently of the characteristics of these anecdotes.

there is claims and anecdotes on the forum that have a good coherence,a good claimed degree of refinement to eliminate cofounding factors,better than some "scientific studies"

 

[Matestube]

Now if they had told me they have high testosterone levels, then that might be an influence. But that fact was never made.

Why wouldn't low testosterone have just as much of an influence, as you have no idea which way the influence is going?

 

[Runenight201]

It is considerable and one should think of it.

I am not saying to be afraid you will turn gay or into Lenny Persin lol but if you can manage mega T and stabilize everything else and only profit ... More power.

I just see too much to lose to put that poison in and too little to gain.

Plus simple things like dark coffee, T3, DHEA, etc. can massively affect mood and confidence and sense of manhood speaking first hand.

But if the roids are really turning some guys supposedly in to "***** slayers" that does seem tempting but very much doubted ... Or deluded. lol

Either way I'd rather invest in my face than my body anyhow as it is at least okay looking as of now to not want to hop too heavily on the devil juice and roll the dice.

But do report and let us know if you start finding trannies appealing.

Whats your supplemental stack lookin like? I need to build one up from scratch and I’m curious to know what you think the best bang for your buck is. T3 and DHEA?

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Highly doubt it.
For T to turn into e2, that means there will always be more testosterone than e2, and e2 increases androgen receptor density.
The overall net effect is androgenic and masculinizing, even at mega doses of testosterone.

That doesn’t negate the fact that estrogen can also climb via aromatization, and you can have negative effects from that, which can be a host if things, including increased sexual desire or deviation…

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

So you cannot make a correlation between your observation and their testosterone levels, because as you say, you don't know what their testosterone levels there.

Your conclusion: "Their testosterone levels had nothing to do with it" is therefore only a conjecture.

You can, in fact, ascertain a difference in testosterone levels between a lanky gay model with a tiny chin and small feet who looks prepubescent, and a tall buff body builder with well developed large face, large hands, etc. sure, we technically don’t know serum hormone levels, but that’s a great image for what high vs low T will be in a man.

So, the lady in the modeling industry, who’s seen gays on both sides of the dude spectrum, says that didn’t effect whether they were gay.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Whats your supplemental stack lookin like? I need to build one up from scratch and I’m curious to know what you think the best bang for your buck is. T3 and DHEA?

hi,with respect to OP scurvedream sensitivity,i suggest you to not get stack recommandations from him on the topic of"mood and confidence and sense of manhood ",his other posts on topics related to that suggest that he does not owe these characteristics or that he did not experienced a high degree of it

 

[Matestube]

That doesn’t negate the fact that estrogen can also climb via aromatization, and you can have negative effects from that, which can be a host if things, including increased sexual desire or deviation…

Which wasn't the point made by the message I quoted.
The point was that the overall net effect of high testosterone doses is feminizing.
Which is wrong: the overall net effect of high testosterone doses is masculinizing.

 

[Matestube]

You can, in fact, ascertain a difference in testosterone levels between a lanky gay model with a tiny chin and small feet who looks prepubescent, and a tall buff body builder with well developed large face, large hands, etc. sure, we technically don’t know serum hormone levels, but that’s a great image for what high vs low T will be in a man.

So, the lady in the modeling industry, who’s seen gays on both sides of the dude spectrum, says that didn’t effect whether they were gay.

Absent blood levels, those observations remain conjecture. Especially given the fact that the different phenotypes she observed were probably not as markedly different as you stated and far more nuanced: the statistical probability of having, in the same room, two men at the exact opposite of the masculinity spectrum is low.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Which wasn't the point made by the message I quoted.
The point was that the overall net effect of high testosterone doses is feminizing.
Which is wrong: the overall net effect of high testosterone doses is masculinizing.

Clearly what she meant by “feminizing,” was a dude liking dudes and dude sex. This whole thread is about whether or not there are effects of testosterone on homosexual tendencies. She obviously wasn’t talking about one’s ability to produce muscle or grow a jaw whilst both testosterone and estrogen were elevated.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Absent blood levels, those observations remain conjecture. Especially given the fact that the different phenotypes she observed were probably not as markedly different as you stated and far more nuanced: the statistical probability of having, in the same room, two men at the exact opposite of the masculinity spectrum is low.

Observations have cultivated humanity for many a millennia.

If you can’t tell a dainty metrosexual from a farmhand, that’s on you, chief.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Why wouldn't low testosterone have just as much of an influence, as you have no idea which way the influence is going?

I don’t disagree with that. But that wasn’t the point I was making.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Clearly what she meant by “feminizing,” was a dude liking dudes and dude sex. This whole thread is about whether or not there are effects of testosterone on homosexual tendencies. She obviously wasn’t talking about one’s ability to produce muscle or grow a jaw whilst both testosterone and estrogen were elevated.

Yes, from what I was told by certain gay individuals, my observations were that what contributed to these people’s sexual proclivities was the environment in which they were raised.

In other words, their environment and how they were raised, had a greater influence on their later choices as adults.

 

[Ulysses]

Ok so before going in I will say I am NOT pointing fingers at any testosterone users here and this is not bait/trolling but 100% serious observations I have come to see.

I notice a trend that guys with super high T from mega hormone use, not usually unaturally, seem to be more likely bisexual, or more likely to have erection issues?

First anecdote is user TheBeard who is pretty known around here for those who have seen male/testosterone topics. He mentioned he would take humongous amounts of test/experimenting/etc. He also mentioned he was gay ... Or bi? He said he liked transsexuals or something like that. He also said your balls haven't dropped yet if you made fun of his tranny fondness, so presumably he is equating liking trannies with being masculine? Lo and behold...

Another guy more known is a "bodybuilder" who goes by the name of Lenny Persin from Boca Raton, FL area (quite a character -- proceed with caution going down this rabbit hole!). The guy himself mentioned using tren, test, everything under the sun for "bodybuilding." Surprise, surprise ... He has some overlapping relations or "interests" with TheBeard himself ... He also likes trannies. He doesn't just say this like TheBeard without proof (not that anyone wants to see any) but Lenny Persin has actual ... Footage with trannies. Yes. Obviously I am not showing proof of that here but it is there if you doubt my assertions ... Internet magic, I suppose. Yes he has erectile dysfunction too. Can confirm.

Third anecdote -- a young guy from Lookism.net. He was considered "super masculine" and "low trust" on there ... I think some South American kid with a DOM-tier face (low eyebrows; low trust looking which is correlated with prenatal T exposure or such in studies). Basically he was considered a Chad or "high T" ... And he also posted a tranny he slept with too. And wait for it ... He also eventually had erection issues too. Maybe it isn't just supraphysiological levels of T? Maybe it is other factors? All I know is I see LOTS of "masc high T guys" who more often than not turn out bisexual or gay and also tend to have ED or erection issues.

My next case -- porn. In porn with buff or muscly guys they often have poor erection quality and smaller members. I'm not saying all guys go on mega gear to compensate but it does seem pretty common to see big muscly guys in porn who do not have ... Much down below overall. On the flipside I see "feminine" or progestogenic looking males who tend to be the ones with bigger penises and fewer erection issues. Most guys in porn are getting on gear now, and in lots of porn the guys have trouble getting it rock hard ... Coincidence?

I've heard that even behind the scenes the guys CANNOT get hard sometimes at all and need viagra or lots of time as they struggle with erection getting a lot. People say they take stuff to get hard to perform better but that sounds like a lie.

If you told people you took viagra they'd first assume you can't "get it up" not that you want to "enhance" it. Clever cover up?

Guys who drink a lot are said to have high T. Guess what? Most heavy and long term male drinkers have erection issues too. Can't say about the gay or bi part but I am very confident that there are some corrolations with alcohol abuse and testosterone in some situations at least ... But if the guy is "natty" this might be negligible to add....

I keep seeing lots of evidence to my awareness somehow that exogenous megadosing of test or tren or etc. makes guys more likely to turn bi or gay, along with possibly causing erection issues.

There is also the "prison theory" I should add ... Male prisoners forcing sexual acts on other males. "Bubba" or similar presumed rape theories fly by in prison culture of males. Aren't most male prisoners higher testosterone, and/or tend to take AAS too? Interesting, no?

Yet ironically "feminine" or "low T" looking men tend to have these issues less in my view. It seems we have contradictory ideas on what is "manly" sometimes, but I'll just leave it here and let anyone else decide if they want to chime in here on anything of related such they notice/can elaborate on.

High testosterone is, like most extreme "male" traits, a high-risk/high-reward strategy. A lot can go wrong, and to stay intact you have to walk a relatively straight and narrow path. The most obvious example of this is the "bad boy" archetype of the high T, low IQ man who ends up in prison at a young age because he can't control his urges.

Another example: if you have naturally high testosterone, then a bad lifestyle means you'll be aromatizing a *lot* of testosterone into estradiol.

I've had my total testosterone levels tested annually since I turned 20, and they have always been 1100-1400 ng/dL. I'm pretty sure that's how I ended up with a left-sided varicocele: health collapsed in my late teens and early 20s, leading to poor liver function, significant weight gain and severe estrogen dominance, which, as has often been discussed on this forum, is a major risk factor for varicose veins.

 

[Matestube]

High testosterone is, like most extreme "male" traits, a high-risk/high-reward strategy. A lot can go wrong, and to stay intact you have to walk a relatively straight and narrow path. The most obvious example of this is the "bad boy" archetype of the high T, low IQ man who ends up in prison at a young age because he can't control his urges.

Another example: if you have naturally high testosterone, then a bad lifestyle means you'll be aromatizing a *lot* of testosterone into estradiol.

I've had my total testosterone levels tested annually since I turned 20, and they have always been 1100-1400 ng/dL. I'm pretty sure that's how I ended up with a left-sided varicocele: health collapsed in my late teens and early 20s, leading to poor liver function, significant weight gain and severe estrogen dominance, which, as has often been discussed on this forum, is a major risk factor for varicose veins.

Blood levels don't mean much.
Receptor density and sensitivity is everything and is the most varied parameter among men.
Hence why some men have 500ng/dl test and look like soy boys, while others at 500ng/dl look like gorillas.
My uncle looks like a bear, has forearms the size of my legs naturally, a thick beard that he shaves twice a day, and the only risk he ever took was that of becoming a successful doctor.
Not one health problem at 60. He is also very much straight.

Just because you have test levels above 1000ng/dl doesn't mean you have high T, not that your issues are due to high T.

 

[Ulysses]

Blood levels don't mean much.
Receptor density and sensitivity is everything and is the most varied parameter among men.
Hence why some men have 500ng/dl test and look like soy boys, while others at 500ng/dl look like gorillas.
My uncle looks like a bear, has forearms the size of my legs naturally, a thick beard that he shaves twice a day, and the only risk he ever took was that of becoming a successful doctor.
Not one health problem at 60. He is also very much straight.

Just because you have test levels above 1000ng/dl doesn't mean you have high T, not that your issues are due to high T.

I'd love to know what empirical evidence you have to support the assertion that androgen receptor density is the "most varied parameter among men"

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Yes, from what I was told by certain gay individuals, my observations were that what contributed to these people’s sexual proclivities was the environment in which they were raised.

In other words, their environment and how they were raised, had a greater influence on their later choices as adults.

Very interesting

 

[Matestube]

I'd love to know what empirical evidence you have to support the assertion that androgen receptor density is the "most varied parameter among men"

I just gave you the empirical evidence in the message of mine you quoted, but I can reitirate for good measure:
Plenty of soy boys walking around with average testosterone levels, plenty of gorilla looking men with average testosterone levels.

What is it that makes one look like a soy boy and the other like a gorilla?