Does increasing thyroid glandular supplement dosage cause a detox reaction?

[coffeelover]

Since reading Broda Barnes' book and realizing I have had many signs of hypothyroidism since childhood and they have gotten worse in the past year since having my 4th baby, I've been increasing my dosage of thyroid glandular (forefront health brand). I moved gradually from 60 mg once a day, to 60 mg twice a day, to 90 mg twice a day, and now taking 130 mg in the morning, and 65 mg in afternoon and evening. Although I feel like my energy and focus are sometimes better in the morning hours, I have felt like my thyroid symptoms are getting worse recently. Could this be some kind of detox reaction that I need to persevere through?

I've had:
Less tolerance to cold
Hands are super dry, cracking/bleeding, itchy
Feeling of something in my throat, feeling like pills get stuck in my throat
Very fatigued in the afternoon/evening
Pain in my wrists flares up
Charley horse in my calves (this is a new one!)
Ears always feel plugged up and hearing is affected
Constipation
Need to cough and clear my throat and voice is hoarse
Itchy/creepy crawly skin especially when I'm trying to fall asleep
Just recently started taking basal body temp and it's around 97.1-97.5 orally which I think is actually equivalent to 96.6-96.9 in the armpit...

Has anyone else had their symptoms get worse before they get better?? Or is this just going to get worse if I keep increasing my dosage gradually?

 

[mgrabs]

Bump

 

[EvanHinkle]

For me, many of the symptoms I experienced were from different things. When supplementing thyroid, the idea is that the metabolism is being accelerated. This means that any nutritional deficiencies you may have could become more evident than they had previously been, (since the assumption is that the body down regulated metabolism as a result of the deficiencies initially).

I noticed personally that for me, activated charcoal would help with my symptoms, (so I assumed it was endotoxin related) but as my teeth continued to have trouble despite my high calcium diet, it was magnesium that cleared both the skin and bowel issues I had attributed to endotoxin, (not to say endotoxin from slow transit was not the underlying cause). Magnesium also improved my teeth, (something I would not have expected, but nonetheless).

TLDR: plug your diet into chronometer and see if there are any obvious deficiencies. If so, try focusing on adding those nutrients to your diet and see if things shift. I would never have thought magnesium could make such a huge difference for me. Kinda feel like a dummy, haha.

 

[Pete Rey]

I have ASD and have only ever been able to tolerate microdoses of T3. Another member here mentioned that is probably due to the fact that people with autism already deal with higher levels of oxidative stress, which is exacerbated by stepping on the metabolic gas pedal so to speak. It was in a thread discussing aluminum and glyphosate, two things I had heavy exposure to as a child. Any time I have tried to increase the dose I get similar symptoms. I think the tendonitis, Charlie horses, digestive, and Eustachian tube issues are all the result of edema. I would drop all supplementation for a week and see how you feel. I don't believe in this idea of "powering through the detox." That may work for some people just dealing with general lethargy or low temps. But I think any time you're experiencing this level of extreme discomfort, your body is telling you to stop whatever it is you're doing. Since it is the dog days of summer right now and I'm eating lots of carbs, I'm not supplementing at all right now. When/if I do in the winter it will literally be a few micrograms and that's it.

 

[mgrabs]

For me, many of the symptoms I experienced were from different things. When supplementing thyroid, the idea is that the metabolism is being accelerated. This means that any nutritional deficiencies you may have could become more evident than they had previously been, (since the assumption is that the body down regulated metabolism as a result of the deficiencies initially).

I noticed personally that for me, activated charcoal would help with my symptoms, (so I assumed it was endotoxin related) but as my teeth continued to have trouble despite my high calcium diet, it was magnesium that cleared both the skin and bowel issues I had attributed to endotoxin, (not to say endotoxin from slow transit was not the underlying cause). Magnesium also improved my teeth, (something I would not have expected, but nonetheless).

TLDR: plug your diet into chronometer and see if there are any obvious deficiencies. If so, try focusing on adding those nutrients to your diet and see if things shift. I would never have thought magnesium could make such a huge difference for me. Kinda feel like a dummy, haha.

Wow makes sense. Im new to thyroid again. Im just approaching 5 weeks on 1 grain on NP. And my armpits are itchy and smelly. Right where my
Lymphs are.

Also just started supplementing B vitamins, vitamin d, e, etc..

Just got these bloods back on my micronutrient level and it seems im super low in copper. Also my hormone panel showed low iron which is strange. Must be cause my thyroid is sluggish. TSH was at 8.

See attached nutrient screenshot.

Do you think b2 and copper are big with detoxing properly?

 

[EvanHinkle]

Interesting, B vitamins in general seem deficient or boarder line. That said, Peat often mentioned that serum levels of nutrients didn’t always account for tissue levels, and so it makes testing tricky.

If you’re keen to test, I know Haidut has a hair nail analysis that is more indicative of tissue levels of nutrients. Otherwise symptoms can be useful to look at too.

Using what you have and looking at symptoms, I know B2 tends to be useful in issues of excess endotoxin. Itching, (especially in an area prone to bacteria like the arm pit) could be an endotoxin issue. I use a high quality vodka with a pinch of baking soda as my daily deodorant. Do you use a conventional deodorant or anything in the area that might cause irritation? If so, maybe that’s the culprit, if not, perhaps looking at a multi-B like Haidut’s Energin, or I believe Thorne has a well regarded one as well?

Do you use chronometer? Looking at your diet there will give you a sense of whatever nutrients are not going in to the body. You may find that more useful than testing ultimately.

 

[mostlylurking]

Since reading Broda Barnes' book and realizing I have had many signs of hypothyroidism since childhood and they have gotten worse in the past year since having my 4th baby, I've been increasing my dosage of thyroid glandular (forefront health brand). I moved gradually from 60 mg once a day, to 60 mg twice a day, to 90 mg twice a day, and now taking 130 mg in the morning, and 65 mg in afternoon and evening. Although I feel like my energy and focus are sometimes better in the morning hours, I have felt like my thyroid symptoms are getting worse recently. Could this be some kind of detox reaction that I need to persevere through?

I've had:
Less tolerance to cold
Hands are super dry, cracking/bleeding, itchy
Feeling of something in my throat, feeling like pills get stuck in my throat
Very fatigued in the afternoon/evening
Pain in my wrists flares up
Charley horse in my calves (this is a new one!)
Ears always feel plugged up and hearing is affected
Constipation
Need to cough and clear my throat and voice is hoarse
Itchy/creepy crawly skin especially when I'm trying to fall asleep
Just recently started taking basal body temp and it's around 97.1-97.5 orally which I think is actually equivalent to 96.6-96.9 in the armpit...

Has anyone else had their symptoms get worse before they get better?? Or is this just going to get worse if I keep increasing my dosage gradually?

One thing to consider is that thiamine deficiency and hypothyroidism share multiple symptoms because both thiamine and thyroid hormone are required for oxidative metabolism. It can get confusing. In addition, taking too much thyroid supplement (=hyperthyroidism) actually worsens a thiamine deficiency.

Several of the symptoms you list are symptoms of thiamine deficiency: fatigue, pain, constipation, needing to clear your throat and hoarse voice, low body temperature.

Suggested reading:

13 Signs of Thiamine Deficiency (B1)

Cliff notes: Thiamine deficiency was not solved decades ago by enriching grains and is alive and well. The implications of this have a huge impact on modern day health and disease. It's always been amazing to me that a country with an endless food supply and resources can coexist with so much...

butternutrition.com

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[Mathgirl]

One thing to consider is that thiamine deficiency and hypothyroidism share multiple symptoms because both thiamine and thyroid hormone are required for oxidative metabolism. It can get confusing. In addition, taking too much thyroid supplement (=hyperthyroidism) actually worsens a thiamine deficiency.

Several of the symptoms you list are symptoms of thiamine deficiency: fatigue, pain, constipation, needing to clear your throat and hoarse voice, low body temperature.

Suggested reading:

13 Signs of Thiamine Deficiency (B1)

Cliff notes: Thiamine deficiency was not solved decades ago by enriching grains and is alive and well. The implications of this have a huge impact on modern day health and disease. It's always been amazing to me that a country with an endless food supply and resources can coexist with so much...

butternutrition.com

How Can Something As Simple as Thiamine Cause So Many Problems? - Hormones Matter

Is thiamine deficiency too simple to explain the devastating nature of the systemic adverse reactions to some vaccines and medications?

www.hormonesmatter.com

Lots of info on thiamine from Derrick Lonsdale and Elliott Overton at hormonesmatter and on youtube. Dr Lonsdale is very active in the comments section on hormones matter. Magnesium is a cofactor for thiamine

 

[youngsinatra]

Wow makes sense. Im new to thyroid again. Im just approaching 5 weeks on 1 grain on NP. And my armpits are itchy and smelly. Right where my
Lymphs are.

Also just started supplementing B vitamins, vitamin d, e, etc..

Just got these bloods back on my micronutrient level and it seems im super low in copper. Also my hormone panel showed low iron which is strange. Must be cause my thyroid is sluggish. TSH was at 8.

See attached nutrient screenshot.

Do you think b2 and copper are big with detoxing properly?

Is this your most recent TSH value?

Copper is not super low, but borderline low and that is typical for low thyroid individuals.

Low B2 can be due to poor activation of B2 which needs thyroid. Active B2 is big for detoxification, methylation, activating the other B vitamins and their enzymes.

 

[mgrabs]

Is this your most recent TSH value?

Copper is not super low, but borderline low and that is typical for low thyroid individuals.

Low B2 can be due to poor activation of B2 which needs thyroid. Active B2 is big for detoxification, methylation, activating the other B vitamins and their enzymes.

Yes. My recent.
TSH:8.5
T3:3.5 (2.3-4.2)
T4: 0.9 (0.8-1.8)
Reverse T3: 12 (8-25)

I was put on a grain thyroid 5 weeks ago. I get bloods again tomorrow to check where im at. I feel a little better but still experiencing the following.

-hot after eating a meal
-brain fog
-poor memory
-hot durinf the day/random hot spells
-cant stay hydrated

Im gonna try and up my water today to a gallon. Im not sure why my
Mouth is so damn dry

 

[mgrabs]

Interesting, B vitamins in general seem deficient or boarder line. That said, Peat often mentioned that serum levels of nutrients didn’t always account for tissue levels, and so it makes testing tricky.

If you’re keen to test, I know Haidut has a hair nail analysis that is more indicative of tissue levels of nutrients. Otherwise symptoms can be useful to look at too.

Using what you have and looking at symptoms, I know B2 tends to be useful in issues of excess endotoxin. Itching, (especially in an area prone to bacteria like the arm pit) could be an endotoxin issue. I use a high quality vodka with a pinch of baking soda as my daily deodorant. Do you use a conventional deodorant or anything in the area that might cause irritation? If so, maybe that’s the culprit, if not, perhaps looking at a multi-B like Haidut’s Energin, or I believe Thorne has a well regarded one as well?

Do you use chronometer? Looking at your diet there will give you a sense of whatever nutrients are not going in to the body. You may find that more useful than testing ultimately.

This test is specifically a celluar reading and not the serum. Its a look back into the last 3 months. Its crazy because my “ serum” b6 levels are very high and my serum b1 is very low. Which is the serum level. But this says im fairly good compared to that other test. Why would b6 be very high on serum and normal to low on my cellular level?

I have just started a B complex this month so im hoping it would balance out. I wonder if i should take a b2 supplement in the meantime? Or just stay even across the board with a B complex for now.

Also, i do not use deodorant because it burns when i use it! Even switching to the cleanest deodorants out there. I have a magnesium based deodorant now and it stil stings. So to be honest, i just raw dog the pits. I work construction so im constantly outside airing these bad boys out. Hahaha.

 

[youngsinatra]

This test is specifically a celluar reading and not the serum. Its a look back into the last 3 months. Its crazy because my “ serum” b6 levels are very high and my serum b1 is very low. Which is the serum level. But this says im fairly good compared to that other test. Why would b6 be very high on serum and normal to low on my cellular level?

I have just started a B complex this month so im hoping it would balance out. I wonder if i should take a b2 supplement in the meantime? Or just stay even across the board with a B complex for now.

Also, i do not use deodorant because it burns when i use it! Even switching to the cleanest deodorants out there. I have a magnesium based deodorant now and it stil stings. So to be honest, i just raw dog the pits. I work construction so im constantly outside airing these bad boys out. Hahaha.

Low thyroid -> functional B2 deficiency (low FAD/FMN) -> poor B6 activation / utilization -> B6 buildup.

Dr. Gregory Russel-Jones has a lot of material on this.

Dry mouth can also be a sign of B2 deficiency.

TSH looks still pretty high. Do you take it on an empty stomach?

 

[mgrabs]

Low thyroid -> functional B2 deficiency (low FAD/FMN) -> poor B6 activation / utilization -> B6 buildup.

Dr. Gregory Russel-Jones has a lot of material on this.

Dry mouth can also be a sign of B2 deficiency.

TSH looks still pretty high. Do you take it on an empty stomach?

Yes! Im just over 5 weeks on that dose. I check my TSH tomorrow to see where i need to be dose wise to control this.

How long does it roughly take to correct of a vitamin deficiency? Im taking a b complex from designs for health called “ b supreme”

 

[youngsinatra]

Yes! Im just over 5 weeks on that dose. I check my TSH tomorrow to see where i need to be dose wise to control this.

How long does it roughly take to correct of a vitamin deficiency? Im taking a b complex from designs for health called “ b supreme”

Looks pretty solid that B complex, but the dose of the B6 is way too in my opinion.
I had a very elevated PLP value (active B6) on a blood test (triple the reference range) when I took ~20mg of P5P for a while.

I‘m interested in your new labs! Keep us updated.

 

[mgrabs]

Looks pretty solid that B complex, but the dose of the B6 is way too in my opinion.
I had a very elevated PLP value (active B6) on a blood test (triple the reference range) when I took ~20mg of P5P for a while.

I‘m interested in your new labs! Keep us updated.

Ugh really? Even if my cellular level is pretty low? Yes. Ill totally send stuff over by monday-tuesday. Also during that first bloodwork my ferritin was 80 (okay) but my iron was low? Very strange

 

[youngsinatra]

Ugh really? Even if my cellular level is pretty low? Yes. Ill totally send stuff over by monday-tuesday. Also during that first bloodwork my ferritin was 80 (okay) but my iron was low? Very strange

Interesting. My serum iron and saturation was also low, but increased to middle of the range by taking thyroid. Ferritin rose from 70 to 100 aswell.

 

[mgrabs]

Interesting. My serum iron and saturation was also low, but increased to middle of the range by taking thyroid. Ferritin rose from 70 to 100 aswell.

Without supplementing? How long did that take? Approximately

 

[youngsinatra]

Without supplementing? How long did that take? Approximately

No iron rich food at all in my diet and no supplements.

Around 2 months.

 

[mgrabs]

No iron rich food at all in my diet and no supplements.

Around 2 months.

Great to hear that. I tried floradix for a week or 2 and felt weird taking it. Very stimulating. Its a liquid iron natural supplement

 

[youngsinatra]

Great to hear that. I tried floradix for a week or 2 and felt weird taking it. Very stimulating. Its a liquid iron natural supplement

Yeah, I tried taking iron bisglycinate twice and both times felt very bad and sick for 2 days. Like everything felt inflamed, my gut, my liver, my brain, my joints. One of the most horrible supplement side effects I have ever had. Also terrible psychological effects.

I think my iron values got low because I had low serum copper and ceruloplasmin levels for so long, but thyroid raised them back into the normal range, too.