Does Milk Contain Estrogen?

[TreasureVibe]

Hey everyone. I need to know the following: Does milk contain estrogen?

See the following information:

Scientists find a soup of suspects while probing milk’s link to cancer

Does Drinking Milk Increase Estrogen Levels in Men?

Does Milk Contain Estrogen? | BestFoodFacts.org

Hormones in Dairy Foods and Their Impact on Public Health - A Narrative Review Article

Milk Makes Estrogen Levels Rise

Estrogen in Animal Products | NutritionFacts.org

Exposure to exogenous estrogen through intake of commercial milk produced from pregnant cows. - PubMed - NCBI

This is kind of troubling to me...

 

[Arrade]

"The quantity of E2 in whole milk, therefore, is low and is unlikely to pose a health risk for humans."
"The quantity of active estrogens in dairy products is too low to demonstrate biological activity. "
and
"A study reporting high estrogen content in milk should also measure progesterone levels"
Low Estrogen Content in Milk – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

I've seen them post some peaty stuff.

 

[TreasureVibe]

"The quantity of E2 in whole milk, therefore, is low and is unlikely to pose a health risk for humans."
"The quantity of active estrogens in dairy products is too low to demonstrate biological activity. "
and
"A study reporting high estrogen content in milk should also measure progesterone levels"
Low Estrogen Content in Milk – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

I've seen them post some peaty stuff.

Thanks. So no worries about regular supermarket milk?

Edit: I think any estrogens are harmful... Even if the study states the amounts in milk do not possess biological activity.

 

[SOMO]

Yes, milk contains estrogen.
Is it enough to cause an issue? Not for the average person or even the average sick person on a SAD diet.

It also contains other hormones including progesterone and a small amount of testosterone.

But milk has so much good nutrition in it, that its estrogenicity likely breaks even (non-estrogenic) and even if it's slightly pro-estrogenic, it is still such a nutrient-dense food that including it in the diet is a good idea.


Remember, soy is a much bigger source of estrogens and even soy is not incompatible with good health, as demonstrated by non-Okinawan Japanese.


Also low-fat and non-fat milk has less estrogen in it obviously.

 

[Arrade]

Yes, milk contains estrogen.
Is it enough to cause an issue? Not for the average person or even the average sick person on a SAD diet.

It also contains other hormones including progesterone and a small amount of testosterone.

But milk has so much good nutrition in it, that its estrogenicity likely breaks even (non-estrogenic) and even if it's slightly pro-estrogenic, it is still such a nutrient-dense food that including it in the diet is a good idea.


Remember, soy is a much bigger source of estrogens and even soy is not incompatible with good health, as demonstrated by non-Okinawan Japanese.


Also low-fat and non-fat milk has less estrogen in it obviously.

I agree it's the combination of things that make is worth its consumption. I don't know much about its progesterone but I'm lead to believe it would cancel out the effects of any estrogen. Milk helps increase testosterone and IGF-1, I think it's highly weighted in the positive. I'm mostly concerned about mucus, which can be alleviated by citric acid.
I also want less estrogen, but I think whole milk offers more benefits than less fatty versions.
Note: I think Goats milk is better for you, has less estrogen. I'm pro-milk but estro is also my concern
Also, I drink milk from Costco but am interested in grass-fed

 

[SOMO]

I agree it's the combination of things that make is worth its consumption. I don't know much about its progesterone but I'm lead to believe it would cancel out the effects of any estrogen. Milk helps increase testosterone and IGF-1, I think it's highly weighted in the positive. I'm mostly concerned about mucus, which can be alleviated by citric acid.
I also want less estrogen, but I think whole milk offers more benefits than less fatty versions.

As far as "mucus", I've heard this argument levied against dairy for a long time and I'm not sure how true it is in the absence of lactose intolerance/dairy allergy. I also read that singers are recommended to avoid dairy before singing because it can make mucus in the back of your throat (mucus is a PROTECTIVE barrier though and I'm not a singer.)

I consume dairy in the form of milk, cheese, kefir and yogurt. I also had recurrent bad sinus issues and issues breathing through my nose at night if the air is too dry. But even when I was a vegan and dairy-free for many years, I still had these sinus issues and felt like I had to clear my throat and spit all the time.

I now consume dairy regularly with no sinus issues. Even when I was reintroducing it into my diet (to avoid bloating due to lactose), I did not notice any sinus issues from dairy specifically (and I was actually expecting some.)

Speaking of which, the LACTOSE is a huge issue for many people because most don't realize it's a FODMAP, i.e. a type of psuedo-fiber that makes gut bacteria bloom and literally cause their population to explode/multiply. For someone whose digestive system + microbiome aren't adept at digesting this carbohydrate (Lactose) - it can cause GI issues which itself can cause mental disturbances. I also wonder if undigested lactose can trigger histamine and this causes the mucus-forming symptoms some complain about.

 

[Ella]

Peat has commented that estrogens in milk are in their sulphated form thus, easily excreted.

I can't find the link (a forum member asked him a question) where he responded saying milk was associated with some cancers like prostate but protective from many others like colon cancer and other diseases.

Peat also mentioned (again I can't remember where) that perhaps cheese was better suited for adults than milk.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090722083720.htm

The following article places the benefits of milk into perspective. I have seen the benefits of milk in the elderly. People who have avoided milk all their lives, thinking they were allergic to it and that it was mucus forming. I find it hilarious, that once they are placed on milk, it is very hard for them to give it up. They feel mentally and physically stable and stronger on it and wonder why they avoided it in the first place. I always joke, "where's the mucous now?" Of course, we would have implemented many changes to the diet for this to happen. The addition of the grated carrot has been the most impressive.

For those who lack mobility and energy in preparing meals for themselves, dairy ticks many boxes in furnishing the body with beneficial nutrients.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ns-need-dairy-heres-the-science-a7484086.html

 

[Wagner83]

It is nice to hear that you find people producing mucus from dairy/milk hilarious but there are a lot of posts on this forum with members who report this specific issue. Regurgitating your post-nasal drip every 1mn30 when playing any kind of team sport may also be hilarious for the opponent but for the guy who spits his life out it is boring.
As for the topic, it has been discussed many times on the forum. Getting an increase in acne would be a good clue the milk has hormonal effects (igf-1, estrogens ?).

 

[Tenacity]

A food must be judged by the sum of its parts.

 

[SOMO]

Getting an increase in acne would be a good clue the milk has hormonal effects (igf-1, estrogens ?).

1. I'm acne-prone and only notice an increase in acne from dairy if I drink very large quantities. No change in skin from yogurt or kefir though.
But if I eat just a few cashews or small amounts of canola/soybean oil, I get pretty aggressive acne within a day or two.

2. I believe Pasteurization may oxidize some of that fats/cholesterol (meaning worse TOTOX/TBARS/PV values), as well as proteins (PROTOX) in milk. Also milk that is stored in CLEAR plastic bottles likely "rots" faster than milk in opaque paper cartons. It's still not a good enough reason to avoid a nutrient-dense food like dairy, but I do think pasteurized milk has some issues.

3. Unless I'm mistaken, low-fat milk is simply whole milk with the fat skimmed off, which means that low-fat pasteurized milk might have lower lipid peroxidation values, but same PROTOX values as whole milk.


Overall, milk is not a perfect food even if it's raw, but it's a net-positive healthy food for most.

 

[Ella]

It is nice to hear that you find people producing mucus from dairy/milk hilarious but there are a lot of posts on this forum with members who report this specific issue.

I am sorry you took my comment out of context. In no way do I think it hilarous for those individuals that have problems tolerating milk. My sincere apologies if you or any other member found my comment flippant or offensive.

The mucus and allergic issue is hilarious based on my personal trials and tribulations with milk. I for one grew up detesting milk and I regret it immensely. It may have prevented my teeth from disintegrating. Drinking milk has help to remineralise and increase their strength. I also lost 32 kilos making milk and cheese my main protein source. I think my hate relationship with milk started when my mother tried to wean me off the breast. I rejected milk in a cup or bottle. I have worked with mothers in trying to get milk into the diet of children that reject milk during the weaning process. Lots of fun and games with those tricky terrible twos. When I first married my husband suffered a severe case of ulcerative colitis. His weight was reduced from 80kg to 35kg. He was dying in front of my eyes and was just skin and bones. I was helpless to know what to do. Three gastrointestinal specialists told me there was no cure; the only solution was to remove the bowel and give him a colostomey bag. He was 28 years young and I had just come out of hospital with a new baby. I can assure you this was no laughing matter. I prayed for guidance to find a solution. We went against the specialists and decided to take charge and sought alternatives to surgery. My husband recovered and has never had a bout of UC in all these years. Amazing for a condition which has no known cure, healing is possible. I wanted him to join me on my journey into dairy, however he was terrified of milk. He never drank it as a child and when he did he would have to go straight to the toilet. If he ate cheese, he too would get snuffly and have difficultly breathing. He too broke out in acne. He loves cheese however no way could you get him to drink milk. As I said he was terrified of it. It has taken years working on him to the point that he now drinks around 3 - 4 cups of milk a day, eats plenty of cheese and addicted to icecream. It has been fun and games because he would get so angry with me and try to convince me that milk was a no go zone for him. It's taken a lot work and effort but we got there. Today he can eat everything even plums. He was convinced that he was intolerant to plums. Has been all his life. He could eat any other fruit but plums would give him horrible wind. So it is interesting to me and yes hilarious because of all the shenigans I have had to endure and now these issues are no longer issues. I can now look back and see the humour. He also had terrible hayfever during pollen season which would drive me insane, keeping me awake with the continuous blowing of his nose. Exhausting for him. Hayfever too disappeared. Interesting for someone who thought sugar was the devil incarnate. I would have never thought to tread down this pathway if it was not for Peat.

Yes igf-1 is very interesting. I suspect my husband's was low, due to his poor gut function and allergic responses. I think milk and sugar were beneficial for him because it helped to raise igf-1 promoting an anti-inflammatory mileau and improved gut integrity. In obese people igf-1 is also low as it is in hypothyroidism. The sugar and milk helped me to lose weight by improving metabolism and thyroid function.

I am sorry if this has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere. I find it immensely interesting due to personal experience with the beneficial addition of milk and sugar into the diets of many people who have been seriously ill. These two substances are the most demonised substances and it is taboo to speak of them with reverance.

Ray says that a healthy liver can easily deal with estrogen. IGF-1 is protective of liver function. I think IGF-1 is protective as we age as many elderly are in a catabolic state.

Really sorry to hear milk is such a big issue and wish you every success in your journey to robust health.

Are you certain you are overproducing IGF-1? Have you had your igf-1 and estradiol measured and do you take thryoid hormone?

 

[Ella]

But if I eat just a few cashews or small amounts of canola/soybean oil, I get pretty aggressive acne within a day or two.

@SOMO, I forgot to add nuts and salmon also caused my husband to breakout. For me to breakout; pregnenolone or eating lots of sugar and drinking liquorice root tea which was interesting since it is estrogenic. However, I have never broken out drinking full-cream, skim milk or eating cheese. I think I have been estrogen dominant all my life so based on your reasoning @Wagner83, drinking hormone rich milk should have made me fatter rather than facilitating fat loss. The milk and the sugar just flip the switch for me as it did for my husband.

 

[Wagner83]

I am sorry you took my comment out of context. In no way do I think it hilarous for those individuals that have problems tolerating milk. My sincere apologies if you or any other member found my comment flippant or offensive.

The mucus and allergic issue is hilarious based on my personal trials and tribulations with milk. I for one grew up detesting milk and I regret it immensely. It may have prevented my teeth from disintegrating. Drinking milk has help to remineralise and increase their strength. I also lost 32 kilos making milk and cheese my main protein source. I think my hate relationship with milk started when my mother tried to wean me off the breast. I rejected milk in a cup or bottle. I have worked with mothers in trying to get milk into the diet of children that reject milk during the weaning process. Lots of fun and games with those tricky terrible twos. When I first married my husband suffered a severe case of ulcerative colitis. His weight was reduced from 80kg to 35kg. He was dying in front of my eyes and was just skin and bones. I was helpless to know what to do. Three gastrointestinal specialists told me there was no cure; the only solution was to remove the bowel and give him a colostomey bag. He was 28 years young and I had just come out of hospital with a new baby. I can assure you this was no laughing matter. I prayed for guidance to find a solution. We went against the specialists and decided to take charge and sought alternatives to surgery. My husband recovered and has never had a bout of UC in all these years. Amazing for a condition which has no known cure, healing is possible. I wanted him to join me on my journey into dairy, however he was terrified of milk. He never drank it as a child and when he did he would have to go straight to the toilet. If he ate cheese, he too would get snuffly and have difficultly breathing. He too broke out in acne. He loves cheese however no way could you get him to drink milk. As I said he was terrified of it. It has taken years working on him to the point that he now drinks around 3 - 4 cups of milk a day, eats plenty of cheese and addicted to icecream. It has been fun and games because he would get so angry with me and try to convince me that milk was a no go zone for him. It's taken a lot work and effort but we got there. Today he can eat everything even plums. He was convinced that he was intolerant to plums. Has been all his life. He could eat any other fruit but plums would give him horrible wind. So it is interesting to me and yes hilarious because of all the shenigans I have had to endure and now these issues are no longer issues. I can now look back and see the humour. He also had terrible hayfever during pollen season which would drive me insane, keeping me awake with the continuous blowing of his nose. Exhausting for him. Hayfever too disappeared. Interesting for someone who thought sugar was the devil incarnate. I would have never thought to tread down this pathway if it was not for Peat.

Yes igf-1 is very interesting. I suspect my husband's was low, due to his poor gut function and allergic responses. I think milk and sugar were beneficial for him because it helped to raise igf-1 promoting an anti-inflammatory mileau and improved gut integrity. In obese people igf-1 is also low as it is in hypothyroidism. The sugar and milk helped me to lose weight by improving metabolism and thyroid function.

I am sorry if this has been thoroughly discussed elsewhere. I find it immensely interesting due to personal experience with the beneficial addition of milk and sugar into the diets of many people who have been seriously ill. These two substances are the most demonised substances and it is taboo to speak of them with reverance.

Ray says that a healthy liver can easily deal with estrogen. IGF-1 is protective of liver function. I think IGF-1 is protective as we age as many elderly are in a catabolic state.

Really sorry to hear milk is such a big issue and wish you every success in your journey to robust health.

Are you certain you are overproducing IGF-1? Have you had your igf-1 and estradiol measured and do you take thryoid hormone?

Well my bad if I was too negative, there are much worse issues in life than mucus production (as you wrote eloquently in your post), but many members have reported this issue, so I thought brushing it off wasn't fair. I am one of them, I wish it wasn't the case and in fact I'm making an attempt at having a lot of dairy again, some milk included. There are many things to consider, possible opiate-effects, difficulty to digest the proteins, difficulty to digest the lactose.

That's a good example of how as one recovers proper digestion things start to fall into place.

I was just referring to a potential physical, easy-to-notice marker of hormonal activity from milk, I have gotten acne in the past from cream, milk etc.. I can't say I notice much at the moment.

Thanks, likewise.

Milk has many hormones, Ray claims the progesterone effects pre-dominate, I'm just giving a tool to assess objectively what effects it has, mood being an other one (but which may change over time if it's consistently in the diet). Some population appear to do much worse than others on dairy, an other thing to keep in mind.

 

[Ella]

@Wagner83 I know how incredibly frustrating it is trying to find the right solution, only to find another dead end. Proper digestion and easy to digest foods are key. My husband would never eat salads. He could not derive any nourishment from raw foods due to his digestion being so poor. He could not even tolerate fermented milk. He also had helicobacter pylori infection which was another saga. He had to eat regularly or go bonkers. I could never understand how I could miss meals but he couldn't. He doesn't have any issue now if he skips a meal or snack. His liver must have been struggling to store glycogen. It makes sense to me now but then I was clueless.

So there is much hope to improve your situation. I would not try to be too ambitious, small amounts at a time to build up your lactase. Adding sugar syrup to the milk helped my husband tolerate the milk. I guess the sugar helped to energise the liver so that digestion is optimised and he was able to stored glycogen so that he had plenty of reserves on board. Thyroid hormone T4 converts to T3 and increase in igf-1, balanced blood glucose, excretion of estrogens and other hormones through glucoronidation etc, etc.

We were both convinced sugar was bad growing up. His mother was a health freak and would bake cookies without sugar. He now says that he must have been lacking sugar all his life. He had back problems and had to see the chiro every week. He hasn't seen one for decades. He was extremely sensitive to any form of stress. He believed he needed a high fat diet because he had problems keeping weight on. However, it was those foods he avoided that turned his health around. Now in his mid 60s he is robust and can physically outworked young men half his age. We have both learnt to be less dogmatic and keep an open mind.

You mentioned you are playing team sports? Are you doing a lot training or gym work? Eating adequate calories for your energy expenditure. I know this can be an issue in producing high igf-1 or inhibit the conversion of T4 to T3 which would result in low igf-1. Both high and low ifg-1 are problematic so if you know what your level is, it can help you decipher whether igf-1 is an issue or not.

 

[Arrade]

@Wagner83 I know how incredibly frustrating it is trying to find the right solution, only to find another dead end. Proper digestion and easy to digest foods are key. My husband would never eat salads. He could not derive any nourishment from raw foods due to his digestion being so poor. He could not even tolerate fermented milk. He also had helicobacter pylori infection which was another saga. He had to eat regularly or go bonkers. I could never understand how I could miss meals but he couldn't. He doesn't have any issue now if he skips a meal or snack. His liver must have been struggling to store glycogen. It makes sense to me now but then I was clueless.

So there is much hope to improve your situation. I would not try to be too ambitious, small amounts at a time to build up your lactase. Adding sugar syrup to the milk helped my husband tolerate the milk. I guess the sugar helped to energise the liver so that digestion is optimised and he was able to stored glycogen so that he had plenty of reserves on board. Thyroid hormone T4 converts to T3 and increase in igf-1, balanced blood glucose, excretion of estrogens and other hormones through glucoronidation etc, etc.

We were both convinced sugar was bad growing up. His mother was a health freak and would bake cookies without sugar. He now says that he must have been lacking sugar all his life. He had back problems and had to see the chiro every week. He hasn't seen one for decades. He was extremely sensitive to any form of stress. He believed he needed a high fat diet because he had problems keeping weight on. However, it was those foods he avoided that turned his health around. Now in his mid 60s he is robust and can physically outworked young men half his age. We have both learnt to be less dogmatic and keep an open mind.

You mentioned you are playing team sports? Are you doing a lot training or gym work? Eating adequate calories for your energy expenditure. I know this can be an issue in producing high igf-1 or inhibit the conversion of T4 to T3 which would result in low igf-1. Both high and low ifg-1 are problematic so if you know what your level is, it can help you decipher whether igf-1 is an issue or not.

Why is high igf bad? Mine is above normal ranges but I was lead to believe it’s good for bone and muscle

 

[Ella]

@Arrade, it is excellent in building bone and muscles, which is why it is good for those in a catabolic (breakdown) state like the elderly. If it is great for building up and growth, then it may not so good in a cancer environment as it will encourage growth of tumour cells. The research is still evolving and Peat does not seem to be worried about IGF-1. I guess with everything else you don't want to be too low or too high. Goldilocks principle of just right may apply. The same can be said about insulin. You don't want too high or too low, as both problematic.

You would be a good one to ask if your igf-1 is high. Do you have any issue with milk and acne?

 

[Arrade]

@Arrade, it is excellent in building bone and muscles, which is why it is good for those in a catabolic (breakdown) state like the elderly. If it is great for building up and growth, then it may not so good in a cancer environment as it will encourage growth of tumour cells. The research is still evolving and Peat does not seem to be worried about IGF-1. I guess with everything else you don't want to be too low or too high. Goldilocks principle of just right may apply. The same can be said about insulin. You don't want too high or too low, as both problematic.

You would be a good one to ask if your igf-1 is high. Do you have any issue with milk and acne?

I’ve really never had a problem with milk and acne.
If it shifts hormones that may be the cause. Perhaps because I drink a lot and have been for a while my body is adjusted to it

 

[Aymen]

"High estrogen, relative to progesterone, interferes with lactation, and the enzymes that convert estradiol to the less active estrone and estriol are increased by progesterone. The amount of estradiol in milk is usually much less than one microgram per liter, and it's concentrated in the cream, so low-fat milk has very little estrogen. The cow's diet is probably a more important factor in the estrogen content of milk than pregnancy. The information in that abstract isn't enough to tell whether the study was done properly." Dr Ray Peat .

 

[boxers]

 

[rob]

To be honest, often I think the amount of worry some people have about the likes of dairy can be the worse thing about it. I certainly know this from health circles where – like wheat – it's readily jumped on as the devil incarnate, responsible for every health issue going.

Problem is once you're in that worrying mindset you're in nocebo effect terrority and it's hard to judge the reality of the situation – I say this from personal experience. That said, I'm certainly not discounting it causes very real issues for some.