Finally Cured From Post Finasteride Syndrome

[Mister]

@TTorque Yeah the estrogen theory is interesting, haven't seen many recoveries with it though. Btw if you come across recoveries or something else interesting post it itt.

And we have another recovery in the PFS whatsapp group.

Clomid and turkesterone helped him. Will ask him more details.

 

[Mister]

New recovery under youtube pfs video; https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=mYstlDb89SE

"Been there done that..propecia destroyed me for 5 years,,after lots of research i learned the sky high estrogen it produced caused all my problems,,did a short run on arimidex and my life came back"

Interesting he mentioned Arimidex, I actually tried that for a couple of weeks and the first week I used that I was completely recovered. Libido, etc all came back but sadly didn't last.

 

[FinVictim]

New recovery under youtube pfs video; https://www.youtube. com/watch?v=mYstlDb89SE

"Been there done that..propecia destroyed me for 5 years,,after lots of research i learned the sky high estrogen it produced caused all my problems,,did a short run on arimidex and my life came back"

Interesting he mentioned Arimidex, I actually tried that for a couple of weeks and the first week I used that I was completely recovered. Libido, etc all came back but sadly didn't last.

He's on transcrotal TRT right? I watched the video back then.

Did he also try Arimidex or was that someone else?

 

[Cooper]

He's on transcrotal TRT right? I watched the video back then.

Did he also try Arimidex or was that someone else?

I tried 500mg a week Test E a week with HCG and all. Did not help. I think i have secret symptom free hernia on my spine which compresses the nerves that goes to my genitals+ the methane dominant SIBO test i have. This disease is mostly gut related. Auto immune stuff causing pelvic floor and prostate issues... Get tested for those before trying hormonal therapies. SIBO breath test, gut microbiome and a spine MRI scan. Happy new years everyone! We gonna beat this together!

 

[Mister]

He's on transcrotal TRT right? I watched the video back then.

Did he also try Arimidex or was that someone else?

No it's not from the guy from the video, it's a new recovery from someone else under the youtube video in the comments. It's from a guy that posted his comment just a few days ago.

 

[Mister]

Lion's mane recovery from Kikel with herbs and supps

Alex Kikel on Instagram: "CLIENT CASE STUDY - PLMS Recovery OTC Supplements Only I have posted a lot about multiple different ways I have helped people with PFS/PAS/PSSD/PLMS recover, and there is a big trend I’m noticing - a LOT of people in this cr

123 likes, 12 comments - alex_kikel on December 29, 2023: "CLIENT CASE STUDY - PLMS Recovery OTC Supplements Only I have posted a lot about multiple differe..."

www.instagram.com

Agree with him on this:

"I have posted a lot about multiple different ways I have helped people with PFS/PAS/PSSD/PLMS recover, and there is a big trend I’m noticing - a LOT of people in this crowd want to do it using OTC supplements only. The problem with that is that it WILL take longer to recover from and the sad truth is some people will NEVER be able to recover without using pharmaceuticals. I’m making this post FOR those of you out there that want to try it the natural route, but PLEASE DO NOT GET THIS CONFUSED - it takes so much longer and is not guaranteed to get you to 100%."

 

[Mister]

New Kikel video about VPA

Alex Kikel on Instagram: "#theprepcoach"

60 likes, 0 comments - alex_kikel on January 4, 2024: "#theprepcoach".

www.instagram.com

Seems he's not a big fan of VPA for hdaci since you need to take higher doses and there are more risks involved but he is a fan of it for other reasons that are benefitial for PFS at a lower dose (like GABA increase, etc), to tackle the epigenetic/chromatic side of PFS he's more in favor of Livagen.

 

[Mister]

Found this recovery in the comments under this video from Russo about VPA:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKS1IZQ4Sf0


"Berberine and a load of other natural HDACi helped me recover within a few months after over a decade of worst PFS ever.

I used very large dosages e.g. 10 grams berberine per day.

It was shown to fix AR overexpression in animal studies and per bodyweight dosage worked out like 10g per day."

I knew Berberine was good for gastro intestinal health but didn't know about its effects on AR.

Seems it's also a potent hdaci, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0887233316301187 , Structural exploration of common pharmacophore based berberine derivatives as novel histone deacetylase inhibitor targeting HDACs enzymes - PubMed

 

[jyb]

Out of curiosity, for those with PFS, what blood tests come up as outside normal range if any? Free testosterone, Sex Hormone Binding Globulin,...?

 

[Mister]

Out of curiosity, for those with PFS, what blood tests come up as outside normal range if any? Free testosterone, Sex Hormone Binding Globulin,...?

For most that I've seen most come back in the "normal" range but many times in the "low normals".

Btw many things can't be seen in bloodwork:

 

[jyb]

For most that I've seen most come back in the "normal" range but many times in the "low normals".

Btw many things can't be seen in bloodwork:

Perhaps "low normal" but outside range when taking into account age? A lot of PFS sufferers are young men (less than 50), so a normal level for a 60 year old might look very different than for a 30 year old. What tests tend to come up as low-ish?

 

[Mister]

Perhaps "low normal" but outside range when taking into account age? A lot of PFS sufferers are young men (less than 50), so a normal level for a 60 year old might look very different than for a 30 year old.

What do you mean with outside range? And yes I'm aware that ranges these days are ridiculous. A man from 25 with a testosterone level of 300 ng/dl is also in "range" and thus "normal" but we know that's not a normal level at all for a young man. My last bloodwork showed a level of 450 ng/dl, a level I'm also not happy with at my age, a good level I consider 700+.

What tests tend to come up as low-ish?

Depends but from what I've seen lowish LH levels and lowish Testosterone levels are most common. But again don't think bloodwork is that useful for most with PFS, doesn't tell us much. For example DHT levels in certain tissues, androgen receptor over or underexpression, etc...

 

[FinVictim]

Found this recovery in the comments under this video from Russo about VPA:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKS1IZQ4Sf0


"Berberine and a load of other natural HDACi helped me recover within a few months after over a decade of worst PFS ever.

I used very large dosages e.g. 10 grams berberine per day.

It was shown to fix AR overexpression in animal studies and per bodyweight dosage worked out like 10g per day."

I knew Berberine was good for gastro intestinal health but didn't know about its effects on AR.

Seems it's also a potent hdaci, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0887233316301187 , Structural exploration of common pharmacophore based berberine derivatives as novel histone deacetylase inhibitor targeting HDACs enzymes - PubMed

Good find.

Where exactly is the comment? I cannot find it in the comments.

 

[Mister]

Good find.

Where exactly is the comment? I cannot find it in the comments.

It's there, try to look some more. Russo even liked the comment.

Btw, Simon shared an interesting theory of him about PFS:

Also interesting new video about a researcher working on the new PFS study

"I think this paper can explain what happens in PFS and why we get sick:

Neuroprotective and neurotoxic outcomes of androgens and estrogens in an oxidative stress environment

The role of sex hormones on cellular function is unclear. Studies show androgens and estrogens are protective in the CNS, whereas other studies found no effects or damaging effects. Furthermore, sex differences have been observed in multiple oxidative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Results
Neither androgens nor estrogens were protective against subsequent oxidative stress insults in glial cells. However, these hormones exhibited neuroprotective properties in neuronal N27 and PC12 cells via the estrogen receptor. Interestingly, a window of opportunity exists for sex hormone neuroprotection, wherein temporary hormone deprivation blocked neuroprotection by sex hormones. However, if sex hormones are applied following an oxidative stressor, they exacerbated oxidative stress-induced cell loss in neuronal and glial cells."

This paper indicated that androgens under certain conditions could do harm. Now imagine that the androgen receptor get upregulated to compensate for end low DHT under finasteride. If you then stop or forget or reduce finasteride or just have strong changes in the level of finasteride for any other reason (fast metabolism or taking a quarter pill every 4 days) you will bombard the oversensitivized AR with too high DHT. I hypothesize that this leads to cell death and inflammation in the brain, muscle, testicle and prostate. This inflammation can be felt as brain fog, muscle pain (and CK goes up), aseptic prostatis, testicle pain and changes in semen consistency.

The inflammation is likely to have secondary effects like methylating the 5-alpha-reductase which has been shown in prostate and which we have seen in brain tissue of PFS patients in the melcangi trials. The methylation of the 5-alpha-reductase could fixate the PFS state for years. Probably leading to low local levels of DHT like Melcangi has shown for brain tissue in PFS."

 

[Mister]

Video from a doctor working at a men's clinic. Said he's seen PFS a lot sadly and has seen success treating PFS with TRT and HCG. Also sometimes adding proviron.

 

[Mister]

About Berberine, I think the guy from the recovery was talking about this study:

Berberine Suppresses Androgen Receptor Signaling in Prostate Cancer

The androgen receptor (AR) is critical in the normal development and function of the prostate, as well as in prostate carcinogenesis. Androgen deprivation therapy is the mainstay in the treatment of advanced prostate cancer, however, after an initial ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Very interesting part, seems to imply AR expression was "fixed" due to berberine.

"We report that berberine decreased the transcriptional activity of AR. Berberine did not affect AR mRNA expression, but induced AR protein degradation. Several ligand-binding domain truncated AR splice variants have been identified and these variants are believed to promote the development of CRPC in patients. Interestingly, we found that these variants were more susceptible to berberine-induced degradation than the full-length AR. Furthermore, the growth of LNCaP xenografts in nude mice was inhibited by berberine and AR expression was reduced in the tumors, whereas the morphology and AR expression in normal prostates were not affected."

That said still some claim it can be "anti androgenic", other say it's adaptogenic aka balances hormones. Also many good anecdotes about fixing gut, better erections, more ejaculate, etc.

 

[Mister]

Some interesting articles from Leo (rip) about finasteride and neurosteroids, good read:

The Power of Neuroactive Steroids

This article introduces the reader to the biosynthesis of neuroactive hormones and reviews what we know about their effects on cognition.

www.leoandlongevity.com

The Problem with Finasteride

This article reviews the evidence on the chronic and persistent side effects of finasteride use, with a particular focus on neurosteroids.

www.leoandlongevity.com

Snortin' Progesterone

This article surveys the tools one might use to attenuate the impairment of neuroactive steroid synthesis produced by finasteride.

www.leoandlongevity.com

Also new vid from Kikel

Alex Kikel on Instagram: "#theprepcoach"

103 likes, 1 comments - alex_kikel on January 13, 2024: "#theprepcoach"

www.instagram.com

 

[Tidal]

Not sure if this is the right place but a Dutch test suggests I have high alpha reductase and beta reductase(both twice over top of the range) which could be impacting neurosteroids.

I have anhedonia and autoimmunity from taking fluoxetine. Also took cistanche a few years ago and experienced hair loss.

This may suggest I have high allopregnanolone which could be causing problems and I would like to reduce it.

How can this be done without taking a 5ar inhibitor?

 

[TTorque]

Have you tried an extended fast?

Not sure if this is the right place but a Dutch test suggests I have high alpha reductase and beta reductase(both twice over top of the range) which could be impacting neurosteroids.

I have anhedonia and autoimmunity from taking fluoxetine. Also took cistanche a few years ago and experienced hair loss.

This may suggest I have high allopregnanolone which could be causing problems and I would like to reduce it.

How can this be done without taking a 5ar inhibitor?

 

[Tidal]

Have you tried an extended fast?

No and don't think I'd be able to. Don't see that as a solution