From Alcoholism To Peat

[DavidGardner]

So here I'm going to log my diet and supplement regimen as I attempt to quit alcohol. I've been following a Peat-y diet for several months now, but this winter I've fallen into my worst bout of alcoholism. Nothing to do with the Ray Peat diet/lifestyle, more just bad social influences, work, and depression.

Yesterday I think I had about thirteen standard drinks, mostly from late afternoon into the evening, but starting in the morning. Today I woke up at 2 am and never could fall back asleep. Around 6:30/7 I developed unpleasant adrenergic symptoms, including sensitivity to light and sound, feeling like I'm going to explode, unable to function. These symptoms were entirely eliminated by a drinking a kava root beverage. I took many different supplements to alleviate fatigue and promote energy. Niacin, naproxen, glycine, BCAAs, pregnenolone, and arimistane helped to bring me back into balance. Also drank a lot of coffee, which is normal for me.

Breakfast was light, just a cup of plain, nonfat Greek yogurt, a cup of skim milk, and a cup of OJ.

I would like to lose some weight also. Right now I'm at 165 lbs, 32 in waist, 14% bf. I lift weights regularly and would like to cut to 30 in waist, 10% bf.

I have found moderate amounts of kava and kratom to be useful in dealing with withdrawals and cravings. I do not tend to abuse these or develop addiction. Glycine, naproxen, and niacinamide are essential to me. Small doses of phenibut can help occasionally, but I prefer to use as little of this substance as possible. I will keep tracking my diet and mention any slip-ups/drinks consumed.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

I think you'll find it easier to abstain from drinking as your metabolism improves. Unfortunately I have a similar characteristic when I drink, in that I tend to overdo it. This typically wrecks my body and my sleep & mood suffer. I think you'll find that over time you will develop an acute awareness of how you feel after drinking vs. how you feel when you're minding your metabolism, and abstinence will begin to seem more and more logical.

Best of luck in your effort. Keep us posted.

 

[DavidGardner]

Lunchtime:

Fat-free ricotta cheese, raw honey, raw coconut, naproxen, BCAAs, glycine. Feeling good now! Ready to be productive.

 

[Peata]

Taurine and B vits, especially B1 (thiamine).

 

[marikay]

unless I'm mistaken, ricotta cheese has a lot of tryptophan in it.

 

[tara]

Good on you for tackling it.
Many people find AA or similar useful or essential - other faces around expecting and encouraging you to stay on track. :)
I think it's wise of you to not replace an alcohol addiction with a phenibut addiction.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

Good on you for tackling it.
Many people find AA or similar useful or essential - other faces around expecting and encouraging you to stay on track. :)
I think it's wise of you to not replace an alcohol addiction with a phenibut addiction.

Agreed. I was using phenibut to curb hangover symptoms early last year, and found myself in a strange, depressive state, which went away after stopping phenibut.

Danny Roddy, and Haidut did a Generative Podcast episode on addiction, which was very informative. May be a good resource to check out.

 

[DavidGardner]

Taurine and B vits, especially B1 (thiamine).

Yes, taurine like glycine is good for...everything. I put it in my workout shake. I try to get B-vitamins from diet, but sometimes will take a B-complex.

Agreed. I was using phenibut to curb hangover symptoms early last year, and found myself in a strange, depressive state, which went away after stopping phenibut.

Right, phenibut can be dysphoric really. A small amount takes the edge off. Too much just makes me want a drink.


I'm up to 1775 kcal today, according to Cronometer. Had a small piece of chicken breast and a banana this afternoon. Worked out, then a cup of cottage cheese and another banana. For dinner, beef liver pan-fried in coconut oil and boiled broccoli. Only nutrient I'm coming up short on today is vitamin E. Noticed the same thing yesterday. Any good Peaty sources so I don't have to supplement?

 

[tara]

I'm up to 1775 kcal today, according to Cronometer. ... Only nutrient I'm coming up short on today is vitamin E. Noticed the same thing yesterday.

And calories, apparently. That could add to stress and I imagine possibly increase the lure of alcohol. Hard to recover hormonal balance etc under such conditions.

I'm not aware of a good food source of E - it seems to always come with lots of PUFA. That's why so many here supplement it.

 

[Peata]

I noticed the low calories too, especially for a man and for someone lifting weight/building muscle.

 

[Peata]

Red palm oil has 1.5 g. pufa per Tablespoon and 25% vitamin E.

 

[DavidGardner]

2560 kcal today. Trying to keep calories lower to cut bf. But, yeah, to maintain weight I need around 3000, so 1775 is too low.

Kind of a long list of foods today, but I notice again short on E and also K this time. 46% of calories came from protein, which seems too high. Ate a lot of low-fat dairy (cheese, cottage cheese, Greek yogurt), also liver and lean chicken. I guess I should replace protein with carbs, maybe include some more fats too.

I did take phenibut tonight, 2 g. I guess I was feeling too keyed up. Even at this dosage, the effects only seemed to last about an hour. I worry about it because of how people describe the withdrawals, but it seems very mild. Hmm. Cross-tolerance with alcohol?

 

[DavidGardner]

Okay, way too much protein. I'm feeling it this morning. Pressure in my skull, puffy face, could that be an inflammatory response from tryptophan and cysteine? Cottage cheese is contributing significantly to both of these amino acids. I eat it by the tub sometimes. Maybe should replace with milk or even ice cream?

Two aspirin tabs alleviated symptoms somewhat.

 

[Makrosky]

Hi David,

Tianeptine is a substance considered quite safe and useful by Peat. It's an antidepressant but with lots of other beneficial actions, for instance, lowering the stress cascade very powerfully, similarly to a benzodiazepine. I know there are papers on pubmed suggesting it's use for alcohol dependence, and it has been discussed in this forum in many threads. Have a look at them if you feel an interest on it.

From all the anecdotal evidence I have read on the internet, it is various orders of magnitude safer than phenibut in terms of abuse/dependence/withdrawal/side-effects. At least, as long as you stay on the recommended dosage (12.5mg 3xday).

Also, I think I read a Peat article or read someone citing him, saying that some people with hypothyroidism rely on alcohol to feel better. Can't recall where exactly, sorry.

Good luck man.

 

[CoolTweetPete]

Okay, way too much protein. I'm feeling it this morning. Pressure in my skull, puffy face, could that be an inflammatory response from tryptophan and cysteine? Cottage cheese is contributing significantly to both of these amino acids. I eat it by the tub sometimes. Maybe should replace with milk or even ice cream?

Two aspirin tabs alleviated symptoms somewhat.

Or maybe add a tbsp of gelatin to increase the ratio of glycine. There is also a thread around here where Haidut mentions adding phenylalanine to a tryptophan meal dramatically reduces uptake.

 

[DavidGardner]

Withdrawals kicked in this morning. Left hand, my dominant hand, started shaking badly an hour before I had to go to work. I had to keep it clenched in a fist to stop the shaking, then tried stretching it open and closed. I had to unload a truck--work at a plant nursery--which helped me regain control of my hand from having to use it. Fortunately, there was no psychological craving for alcohol.

Cronometer puts me at 3142 kcal today. I didn't plan to eat that much, just felt like I needed it. Protein was lower too, still at 211 g though. 451 g of carbs and 60 g of fat. Switched out cottage cheese for Greek yogurt, which I tend to eat less of.

I took 2 g of phenibut tonight again. Not wanting to do that, but it's hard not to have something in the evening. I've tried tianeptine, it made me feel lousy. Trying not to take kava right now--I get too slow on it.

 

[tara]

Withdrawals kicked in this morning. Left hand, my dominant hand, started shaking badly an hour before I had to go to work. I had to keep it clenched in a fist to stop the shaking, then tried stretching it open and closed.

I can imagine it's inconvenient when you have to do sth, and not always considered social acceptable etc, but the trembling hand could well be a really useful part of recovery.
If you have the time and space to let it go and keep shaking, I'd go with it. As you say, it's part of withdrawal, and I think you are wanting to get through withdrawal, not stop it. Have you read about TRE? They deliberately get trembling going to help remove stress/trauma that has got stuck in the body. There are no doubt other approaches too. Old stress from the past can be part of keeping addictions going, so if you can rid of some of it, you might be winning. :)

Your body may know what it's doing.

 

[Blossom]

@DavidGardner I was wondering if you had seen this:
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/page-2#post-24460

 

[DavidGardner]

Sleep is suffering. Also, I'm ravenous at night, very little appetite during the day. I wake up having to eat to fall back asleep again. Calories at 3250 yesterday. More and more, I'm noticing a decline in upper body strength and body composition. Legs, chest, and back are still strong, but arms don't fill up shirt sleeves like they used to. Weaker on pressing strength. I think the alcohol ruined my hormones.

@DavidGardner I was wondering if you had seen this:
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/page-2#post-24460

Interesting, but wouldn't progesterone lower DHT? I've been taking 10 mg pregnenolone and 25 mg Arimistane daily to try to restore testosterone and keep estrogen and cortisol low. Sexual function was shot before, now seeing improvement.

Good news, not craving alcohol at all. Tremors occurred only momentarily yesterday morning, then stopped.

Or maybe add a tbsp of gelatin to increase the ratio of glycine. There is also a thread around here where Haidut mentions adding phenylalanine to a tryptophan meal dramatically reduces uptake.

I already take up to 15 g daily of glycine, but I am thinking of adding gelatin as a tryptophan-free protein source. My cravings for protein are very strong; I had 308 g yesterday! mostly from dairy.

 

[DavidGardner]

Today has gone better. I cut back on caffeine, which seemed to help reduce agitation. Started supplementing vitamin E. Calories at 2154.