Fructose reprogrammes glutamine-dependent oxidative metabolism to support LPS-induced inflammation

[Dr. B]

Ray Peat has already addressed these studies.

"Much of the current concern about the dangers of fructose is focussed on the cornstarch-derived high fructose corn syrup, HFCS. Many studies assume that its composition is nearly all fructose and glucose. However, Wahjudi, et al. (2010) analyzed samples of it before and after hydrolyzing it in acid, to break down other carbohydrates present in it. They found that the carbohydrate content was several times higher than the listed values. "The underestimation of carbohydrate content in beverages may be a contributing factor in the development of obesity in children," and it's especially interesting that so much of it is present in the form of starch-like materials.

Many people are claiming that fructose consumption has increased greatly in the last 30 or 40 years, and that this is responsible for the epidemic of obesity and diabetes. According to the USDA Economic Research Service, the 2007 calorie consumption as flour and cereal products increased 3% from 1970, while added sugar calories decreased 1%. Calories from meats, eggs, and nuts decreased 4%, from dairy foods decreased 3%, and calories from added fats increased 7%. The percentage of calories from fruits and vegetables stayed the same. The average person consumed 603 calories per day more in 2007 than in 1970. If changes in the national diet are responsible for the increase of obesity, diabetes, and the diseases associated with them, then it would seem that the increased consumption of fat and starch is responsible, and that would be consistent with the known effects of starches and polyunsaturated fats." -Ray Peat

interesting quote, i remember reading a while back. interesting Ray mentions starches alongside PUFA being responsible for obesity. so does Ray strongly dislike starches, as in white bread, pasta, oatmeal, white rice? in his coconut oil article he mentioned eating coconut oil with rice for dinner. do starches cause obesity because of the strain they cause on the digestive system and an increase in inflammation?
btw, i think Ray or someone mentioned fastings benefits are in large part due to its reducing strain and endotoxin in the digestive system. Following that line of logic, the more easily digestible foods should provide some of those benefits you get from fasting. so unlike mainstream recommendations you actually want to eat a lower fiber diet, with more easily digestible foods like sugar, maybe a good protein powder, milk, maybe some meats, juices, honey etc.

 

[Dr. B]

High fructose corn syrup is 55% fructose and 45% glucose. All the founded and unfounded claims about starchy residual molecules or heavy metal impurities in HFCS are from the past. HFCS is OK to consume according to Peat but he and others prefer cane or beet sugar.

did Peat say at some point its ok to consume? that article Rinserepeat posted is off his website. I think hfcs has other issues too being corn, its likely gmo, and maybe has some other impurities

 

[Michael Mohn]

did Peat say at some point its ok to consume? that article Rinserepeat posted is off his website. I think hfcs has other issues too being corn, its likely gmo, and maybe has some other impurities

This Wahjudi, et al. (2010) researcher retracted his study. There's no evidence of massive amounts of starches in HFCS. Maybe in the beginning of corn syrup but not today. Peat said in a KMUD interview that HFCS is similar to sucrose and consuming normal amounts is OK.

 

[Eberhardt]

Did they use fructose from corn in the study? It doesn't mention that anywhere

It doesnt clearly say as far as I can say. It does mention using seahorses for some of the tests at least and they might havr quitr different metabolism. But more importantly I am not sure their conclusion is valid as they claim two effects I would say is positive - increased oxygen consumption and lower lactate... that is not bad "These data suggest that LPS-stimulated monocytes treated with fructose or galactose direct pyruvate towards the mitochondrial tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle for OXPHOS, whereas glucose treatment directs pyruvate towards lactate production. We confirmed extracellular levels of lactate are indeed reduced in fructose compared to glucose-treated monocytes"

Also (the oxygen was mentioned elsewhere in the text) the said negative effects seems to have been in vitro not in vivo . Treated monocytes in a petridish is so uncontextual I have strong doubts about the relevance of the results anyhow.

To sum it up I mainly dont see these results and procedures warranting the coclusion. It would then nicely follow the standard problems of 70%of medical research papers giving conclusions that are either not warranted by or contraindicated by the actual research

 

[Dr. B]

This Wahjudi, et al. (2010) researcher retracted his study. There's no evidence of massive amounts of starches in HFCS. Maybe in the beginning of corn syrup but not today. Peat said in a KMUD interview that HFCS is similar to sucrose and consuming normal amounts is OK.

thats interesting. You dont think the researcher could have been paid off or forced to retract it? what does KMUD stand for btw?
so hfcs isnt really related to the obesity epidemic at all then, its more related to pufa, hard to digest starches, vaccines, xrays, pharma drugs, iodized salt programs, water fluoridation programs etc?

 

[boris]

@Eberhardt @Indicator Details are listed at the end. They used F3510 from Merck, which is corn fructose.

 

[salvio]

Says the guy who needs a translation program to write in another language. ?

I'm not sure if your translation program is bad, if your writing is bad or you reasoning. You post a study then you make false and unsubstantiated claims and you call everybody who points out your nonsense an idiot. Maybe you're just a stronzo.

I didn't use an automatic translator. I meant that I put what i wrote in a machine and it translated perfectly. Maybe you have some troubles to read or to understand what you read.

I posted a study and I said what there's inside.

Said that, please stop talking to me, you're an unpleasant person and I don't like to talk to unpleasant liars that have troubles to read and to make good relation to the other.

 

[salvio]

If are starches so bad, why there are so many people (Japaneses, Italians, ecc...) are so healthy?

 

[Dr. B]

If are starches so bad, why there are so many people (Japaneses, Italians, ecc...) are so healthy?

starches are tougher to digest, have more inflammatory compounds and are made of pure glucose instead of a fructose glucose mix. apparently fructose is oxidized even in diabetics whereas glucose is oxidized properly in only healthy people. Peats recommendations are centered around easier to digest foods, hence cooking potatoes, nixtamalizing corn tortillas, etc

 

[boris]

If are starches so bad, why there are so many people (Japaneses, Italians, ecc...) are so healthy?

Japanese diet: less meat than western diet, lots of nutritious seafood, lots of gelatin from broths, anti cancer compounds in teas
Italian centenarians: sunlight, fresh fruit, lots of gelatin from nose to tail meat eating, lots of cheese, anti cancer compounds from olive oil

Starches are safe when eaten with fat and nutrients. It's likely they would live even longer if they switched the noodles for more fruit

 

[Eberhardt]

@Eberhardt @Indicator Details are listed at the end. They used F3510 from Merck, which is corn fructose.

thanks. not surprised! :)

 

[Eberhardt]

Japanese diet: less meat than western diet, lots of nutritious seafood, lots of gelatin from broths, anti cancer compounds in teas
Italian centenarians: sunlight, fresh fruit, lots of gelatin from nose to tail meat eating, lots of cheese, anti cancer compounds from olive oil

Starches are safe when eaten with fat and nutrients. It's likely they would live even longer if they switched the noodles for more fruit

Are they "so healthy". actually the average age is about as in Sweden. And according to matt stone (the research should be avaialble through 180 degree health) comparative research has shown that if you take japanese living in the US and compare them to japanese living in japan as well as the general american population you will find that japanese who move to the U.S and adapt to US way of living and diet , they live averagly as long as the general US population and shorter then the japanese in japan. If you then look at japanese in the US eating a traditional diet but adapting a western lifestyle they live slightly longer then the general US population but shorter then the japanese population in japan. Then the two remaining groups of japanese in the US can be divided into those keeping a traditional diet and lifestyle, and those keeping a traditional lifestyle but eating and american diet. And while those eating a traditional diet AND having a traditional lifestyle while living in the US actually lived shorter then those following a traditional lifestyle but a standard american diet!! they lived as long or longer then the traditional ones in japan. Meaning its the lifestyle not the diet. lots of family ties, rituals, social gatherings and probably a low stress lifestyle is what is making them live longer NOT the diet which when eaten in amercia was worse then the standard diet.....

And again I need to remind that the difference between japan and say sweden is about 6 months and sweden isnt exactly shangrila.

 

[boris]

@Eberhardt agree, no good diet will completely save you from stress. I think it can just help you break out of it or endure it.

 

[Eberhardt]

@Eberhardt agree, no good diet will completely save you from stress. I think it can just help you break out of it or endure it.

Agree on that :) but also it means the japanese diet might not be any better. I assume soy and vegetable oil f.ex

 

[salvio]

If someone is unhealthy the problem is not fructose or glucose, but in healthy people starches are not a problem and in Okinawa people who eat a lot of starch live almost 100 years.

 

[salvio]

Are they "so healthy". actually the average age is about as in Sweden. And according to matt stone (the research should be avaialble through 180 degree health) comparative research has shown that if you take japanese living in the US and compare them to japanese living in japan as well as the general american population you will find that japanese who move to the U.S and adapt to US way of living and diet , they live averagly as long as the general US population and shorter then the japanese in japan. If you then look at japanese in the US eating a traditional diet but adapting a western lifestyle they live slightly longer then the general US population but shorter then the japanese population in japan. Then the two remaining groups of japanese in the US can be divided into those keeping a traditional diet and lifestyle, and those keeping a traditional lifestyle but eating and american diet. And while those eating a traditional diet AND having a traditional lifestyle while living in the US actually lived shorter then those following a traditional lifestyle but a standard american diet!! they lived as long or longer then the traditional ones in japan. Meaning its the lifestyle not the diet. lots of family ties, rituals, social gatherings and probably a low stress lifestyle is what is making them live longer NOT the diet which when eaten in amercia was worse then the standard diet.....

And again I need to remind that the difference between japan and say sweden is about 6 months and sweden isnt exactly shangrila.

You're delusional. You have written so much without making me understand why the Japaneses in Japan live so long among other things by eating a lot of fish and then filling up with polyunsaturated omega 3s and starches.

 

[boris]

@salvio

Thyroid suppressive effect of PUFAs is somewhat counteracted by natural thyroid from whole fish in their broths.

 

[Dr. B]

Japanese diet: less meat than western diet, lots of nutritious seafood, lots of gelatin from broths, anti cancer compounds in teas
Italian centenarians: sunlight, fresh fruit, lots of gelatin from nose to tail meat eating, lots of cheese, anti cancer compounds from olive oil

Starches are safe when eaten with fat and nutrients. It's likely they would live even longer if they switched the noodles for more fruit

does that mean pizza, cheese tortillas, cheese sandwiches, burgers are pretty safe? due to the fat and nutrients from the cheese and tomato sauce or meat?
isnt there still the issue of starches being tough to digest, containing gluten/inflammatory compounds, and being made of pure glucose instead of glucose/fructose
actually many tortillas/burger buns/breads these days contain not just flour or gluten but odd filler ingredients, preservatives, gums, etc

 

[Eberhardt]

You're delusional. You have written so much without making me understand why the Japaneses in Japan live so long among other things by eating a lot of fish and then filling up with polyunsaturated omega 3s and starches.

What is delusional about quoting research? It is hard to see how its caused by diet if eating the diet in the us makes you live shorter then when eating the american diet. (And I dont think you not understanding is making me delusional lol) But to keep to the subject: First of all the Okinawans does have a little bit higher average life span then the rest of japan but in now respect have an average of 100 years. Its 78 years average for men and 86 for women. So average is higher du to the women but for men its actually lower then most of scandinavia. ALso the okinawans does not eat a typical japanese diet and eat very little vegetable according this research: Longevity and diet in Okinawa, Japan: the past, present and future - PubMed. Its mostly hype. Among those reaching a 100 years of age there is a 97% of whom lives at home indicating that the few who gets really old might be in slightly better shape then normal for their age but it could also be they are ok because they live with family,
And okinawans dont eat so much fish more pork...

But why do the japanese lead a little bit longer lifes than most others on average - might be anything from genetics to low stress/high communal feeling. High social integration and family ties as well as religion is a significant predictor of longevity. But as mentioned the national average is not much older. its a couple of years at best depends on what you compare it with.

 

[Eberhardt]

does that mean pizza, cheese tortillas, cheese sandwiches, burgers are pretty safe? due to the fat and nutrients from the cheese and tomato sauce or meat?
isnt there still the issue of starches being tough to digest, containing gluten/inflammatory compounds, and being made of pure glucose instead of glucose/fructose
actually many tortillas/burger buns/breads these days contain not just flour or gluten but odd filler ingredients, preservatives, gums, etc

probably. Feels counterintuitve but seems so. And fits with the japanese in US study I parafrazed above