Generative Energy #23: Q&A - Weight Loss, Dating, Red Light, Authorities, And Starch (With Haidut)

[Dan W]

I managed to get two questions in. I feel like I beat the system.

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#23: Q&A - Weight Loss, Dating, Red Light, Authorities, and Starch Diets

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[Kasper]

@haidut Thanks for all the shows, they have really helped me understand Ray Peat's work. I'm not saying that just to please you. Since I've been watching those shows, I feel I begin to understand myself, and make progress in my health.

However, I'm doubting about starches. You say they are associated with all kind of diseases, but are those studies done also on potato rich diets? From what I've heard about potatoes, is that someone that lived entirely on potatoes for a month or something, got all his health marks improved, including his fasting blood glucose levels.

Also on this forum, there are many people on this forum that have tried diets high in fruit, but only really improved with a potato rich diet.

One problem with a fruit diet, is that there are only a couple of fruits that you can really can use as a staple for carbs in your diet. Oranges is probably by far the most practical. But what if you don't react good on oranges? I have been experimenting with oranges (orange juice) and mandarins the past couple of days, but I'm convinced more than ever that they are not doing me good. Especially since I've been feeling very good with using taurine+theanine+glycine in high dosages.

For example yesterday, I eat in the evening 10 mandarins with cheese. And I begin to feel completely messed up, even when I increased my taurine+theanine+glycine dosage. The next day (today) I slowly begin to feel as I have been feeling the last 2 weeks. Only now (in the evening), I feel like I completely recovered. So I think I just don't react good on those kind of fruits.

I could experiment with other fruits, but it is hard to find fruits that are as rich in vitamins and minerals as potatoes are, are affordable, and practical to eat as a staple.

Anyway, my point is, you say that potatoes should be used sparingly, but I think you should keep in mind, that many people on this forum have made massive progress in their health, using potatoes as a staple, and that it is sometimes hard to find a good (or a better) alternative. :)

 

[haidut]

@haidut Thanks for all the shows, they have really helped me understand Ray Peat's work. I'm not saying that just to please you. Since I've been watching those shows, I feel I begin to understand myself, and make progress in my health.

However, I'm doubting about starches. You say they are associated with all kind of diseases, but are those studies done also on potato rich diets? From what I've heard about potatoes, is that someone that lived entirely on potatoes for a month or something, got all his health marks improved, including his fasting blood glucose levels.

Also on this forum, there are many people on this forum that have tried diets high in fruit, but only really improved with a potato rich diet.

One problem with a fruit diet, is that there are only a couple of fruits that you can really can use as a staple for carbs in your diet. Oranges is probably by far the most practical. But what if you don't react good on oranges? I have been experimenting with oranges (orange juice) and mandarins the past couple of days, but I'm convinced more than ever that they are not doing me good. Especially since I've been feeling very good with using taurine+theanine+glycine in high dosages.

For example yesterday, I eat in the evening 10 mandarins with cheese. And I begin to feel completely messed up, even when I increased my taurine+theanine+glycine dosage. The next day (today) I slowly begin to feel as I have been feeling the last 2 weeks. Only now (in the evening), I feel like I completely recovered. So I think I just don't react good on those kind of fruits.

I could experiment with other fruits, but it is hard to find fruits that are as rich in vitamins and minerals as potatoes are, are affordable, and practical to eat as a staple.

Anyway, my point is, you say that potatoes should be used sparingly, but I think you should keep in mind, that many people on this forum have made massive progress in their health, using potatoes as a staple, and that it is sometimes hard to find a good (or a better) alternative.

I think I said on the shows that if you eat starch it better be potatoes since the potatoes have enough ketoacids to fully replace protein without generating ammonia. But, like any starch, potatoes can lead to intestinal persorption of starch and trigger immune response. Probably a lot milder than grains but still if possible I would eat potatoes sparingly. But to illustrate the importance of potatoes, here is a study that found a person can survive in perfectly good health eating nothing but potatoes and butter.
Man Eating Nothing But Potatoes for 2 Months
Is a potato-only diet good for you? - BBC News
TIL Humans can survive indefinitely on a diet of just potatoes and butter • /r/todayilearned
This is what it’s like to eat only potatoes for 60 days

The Wikipedia link tells you why you don't want to overdo potatoes.
"...The potato is best known for its carbohydrate content (approximately 26 grams in a medium potato). The predominant form of this carbohydrate is starch. A small but significant portion of this starch is resistant to digestion by enzymes in the stomach and small intestine, and so reaches the large intestine essentially intact. This resistant starch is considered to have similar physiological effects and health benefits as fiber: It provides bulk, offers protection against colon cancer, improves glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity, lowers plasma cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations, increases satiety, and possibly even reduces fat storage.[42][43][44] The amount of resistant starch in potatoes depends much on preparation methods. Cooking and then cooling potatoes significantly increases resistant starch. For example, cooked potato starch contains about 7% resistant starch, which increases to about 13% upon cooling."

 

[milk_lover]

Excellent show as always! Thanks haidut and Danny.

Regarding lentil, Peat advises against it (Ray Peat, PhD on Endotoxin – Functional Performance Systems (FPS))
"Beans and lentils happen to be powerful anti-thyroid agents, so it isn’t surprising to see indications of decreased aerobic capacity, resulting from decreased peak oxygen consumption in association with the chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), if that syndrome is caused by chronic exposure to dietary legumes."
Can you clarify on lentil as I've always enjoyed eating lentil soup with tobasco when I go out?

 

[milk_lover]

@Westside PUFAs
Starch for the long run may raise prolactin..

I am guilty when it comes to starch.. I can't eat my meat without bread. It's just not the same

 

[BobbyDukes]

I ate a potato today, and am currently feeling horrendous. I've always reacted badly to potato, though. It just sits there in my colon and messes everything up. Going to have a big carrot salad shortly, and some cascara before bed to get this out of me, hopefully by tomorrow. Starch is hella addictive. On its own, there is nothing appetising at all about it. It's the things you put with it, that make it so hard to keep avoiding. Toast by itself = boring, blah. Toast + butter + strawberry jam = OMG.

As an aside, bread digests perfectly for me. Potato = horrible. Rice = again, just sits in my colon (minus the gas of the potato, though).

I would have liked the question about McDougal et al, to have included references to the apparent reversal of atherosclerosis. I think this was put to Ray once, and he responded by saying that he wasn't aware of the work, so couldn't comment on it. I found this strange at the time, as somebody like Ray would probably be interested in work showing reversal of atherosclerosis... Or at least debunking it, with his own take on it. Our resident starchie expert, Westside PUFA, keeps honking about 'long lived cultures' around the globe, that live off've starch. I guess if it's there, right in front of your eyes, it needs to be brought to discussion. The way I see it, it's as Georgi says, it's the elimination of other destructive factors in the diet that is probably responsible for their long lived success (low toxins, including PUFAs in many cases).

Thank you for the interview :)

 

[Brian]

I ate a potato today, and am currently feeling horrendous. I've always reacted badly to potato, though. It just sits there in my colon and messes everything up. Going to have a big carrot salad shortly, and some cascara before bed to get this out of me, hopefully by tomorrow. Starch is hella addictive. On its own, there is nothing appetising at all about it. It's the things you put with it, that make it so hard to keep avoiding. Toast by itself = boring, blah. Toast + butter + strawberry jam = OMG.

As an aside, bread digests perfectly for me. Potato = horrible. Rice = again, just sits in my colon (minus the gas of the potato, though).

I would have liked the question about McDougal et al, to have included references to the apparent reversal of atherosclerosis. I think this was put to Ray once, and he responded by saying that he wasn't aware of the work, so couldn't comment on it. I found this strange at the time, as somebody like Ray would probably be interested in work showing reversal of atherosclerosis... Or at least debunking it, with his own take on it. Our resident starchie expert, Westside PUFA, keeps honking about 'long lived cultures' around the globe, that live off've starch. I guess if it's there, right in front of your eyes, it needs to be brought to discussion. The way I see it, it's as Georgi says, it's the elimination of other destructive factors in the diet that is probably responsible for their long lived success (low toxins, including PUFAs in many cases).

Thank you for the interview :)

I have noticed potatoes or starch in general digesting both perfectly and horribly at different times in the last few years. For me it seems to be correlated with overall metabolism and body temperature, maybe intestinal infections as well. I was really surprised once after taking BCAAs with a protein meal that for the next few days all starch, including white rice (which sometimes just clogs me up), overnight digested freakishly well. I'm still not exactly sure why. I think it was better full body cellular energy and protective hormone production from a high brain dopamine:serotonin ratio as I can't see how BCAA's could so quickly affect intestinal inflammation from endotoxin or infection.

Blue zone people almost all live in warm sunny climates with low stress, very social pleasant lifestyles. That would definitely help keep the dopamine:serotonin ratio ideal, which leads me to think that it is near number one in terms of importance for keeping metabolic rate and protective hormones high. The interesting thing is that the brain ratio seems manipulatable from diet, environment, exercise and social factors. And any one of these can sometimes be enough to tip the scales in favor of dopamine or serotonin.

 

[haidut]

Excellent show as always! Thanks haidut and Danny.

Regarding lentil, Peat advises against it (Ray Peat, PhD on Endotoxin – Functional Performance Systems (FPS))
"Beans and lentils happen to be powerful anti-thyroid agents, so it isn’t surprising to see indications of decreased aerobic capacity, resulting from decreased peak oxygen consumption in association with the chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), if that syndrome is caused by chronic exposure to dietary legumes."
Can you clarify on lentil as I've always enjoyed eating lentil soup with tobasco when I go out?

Lentils is deficient in methionine and it not as estrogenic as beans and soy. It is the safest of the legumes if you intend to consume any of them.

 

[Gl;itch.e]

Lentils is deficient in methionine and it not as estrogenic as beans and soy. It is the safest of the legumes if you intend to consume any of them.

It's also the grossest!

 

[m_arch]

Thanks for the Q&A haidut!

For me potatoes caused a lot of gas initially (and PUFA cooked fries still do - along with horrendously smelling farts) but after a few days of eating them the gas went away. I find them to be a good source of food for one meal or so a day - also to balance out the liquids of milk and OJ. Also super cheap and tasty with butter or melted cheese. Preferable to rice anyway.

 

[tara]

But, like any starch, potatoes can lead to intestinal persorption of starch and trigger immune response.

Hey, I know starch from potatoes can feed gut bacteria, and this can be an issue for some, and I know some people find more stable blood sugars with fruit sugars etc, but I really don't think I've seen anything to show that starch from potatoes that are well-cooked in sufficient water are a particular persorption risk. All the evidence I've seen that's been brought to threads here, or that I've read from Peat so far (I've not read all his newsletters and books yet) has been about the persorption risk from raw and/or dry starch.

 

[haidut]

Hey, I know starch from potatoes can feed gut bacteria, and this can be an issue for some, and I know some people find more stable blood sugars with fruit sugars etc, but I really don't think I've seen anything to show that starch from potatoes that are well-cooked in sufficient water are a particular persorption risk. All the evidence I've seen that's been brought to threads here, or that I've read from Peat so far (I've not read all his newsletters and books yet) has been about the persorption risk from raw and/or dry starch.

The quote I posted from Wikipedia says potatoes have resistant starch, which only increases with cooking. So, that starch cannot be really dealt with and always carries the risk of persorption. I guess, that is why when asked Peat said that if potatoes are peeled and REALLY well cooked they are probably OK. I am not bashing on potatoes, I eat them myself sometimes too. Just saying that for people with intestinal inflammation there really is no truly safe starch. For people with healthy guts potatoes are an excellent food. Also, consumption of starch has been associated with development of diabetes independently of PUFA consumption.
Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context
"...For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch. Bread and pasta consumption are strongly associated with the occurrence of diabetes, fruit consumption has a strong inverse association."

I hope this does not turn into another argument for/against starches. I am simply explaining what led me to say the things I said on Danny's show. If eating potatoes serves you well and it causes no health problems, then ignore what I have been saying.

 

[tara]

I hear that you are not bashing the spud. :) And I'm being pedantic.

Just saying that for people with intestinal inflammation there really is no truly safe starch.

It seems quite possible to me that this is true for at least some people.

I thought the point about resistant starch was that it feeds gut bacteria - that's why some people promote it, and that's why Peat doesn't.
And I thought the point about persorption was about particle size, not just about whether we can break them down and digest them. And that thorough wet cooking of starch granules gelatinises them - so they are no longer of a size that persorbs.

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context
"...For example, fruits have many advantages over grains, besides the difference between sugar and starch. Bread and pasta consumption are strongly associated with the occurrence of diabetes, fruit consumption has a strong inverse association."

This is about blood sugar regulation, not persorption, right?

 

[dfspcc20]

@haidut what do you do for shampoo (if anything at all)? You mentioned just using the simplest of soaps in this podcast.

And thanks for doing these podcasts w/ Danny Roddy! I feel I get so much out of them. I can't always say the same for the KMUD interviews- those typically have about 50 minutes of talking that could easily be summed up in <5 minutes.

 

[MB50]

Hey everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I am new and just arrived here after being on a paleo diet for a while and then following Dr. Jack Kruse's work for a while. I have to say that Haidut you are an awesome source of information and we all really appreciate what you put into this forum. One of my questions regarding this podcast is the statement about muscle cells preferring fat. I was under the impression that all of our cells preferred glucose metabolism, especially muscle cells? If somebody could clarify this that would be awesome. Thanks.

 

[Kasper]

@dfspcc20 I use egg yolks for washing my hair, which seems to do the job.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

@Westside PUFAs
Starch for the long run may raise prolactin..

I am guilty when it comes to starch.. I can't eat my meat without bread. It's just not the same

Why? Because Haidut says so? He says a lot of things. Hormones change literally every minute and there are many things that affect them. Haidut's answer to Roddy on starch was very unscientific and he ignores evidence to the contrary.

 

[kondevantoni]

Hey everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I am new and just arrived here after being on a paleo diet for a while and then following Dr. Jack Kruse's work for a while. I have to say that Haidut you are an awesome source of information and we all really appreciate what you put into this forum. One of my questions regarding this podcast is the statement about muscle cells preferring fat. I was under the impression that all of our cells preferred glucose metabolism, especially muscle cells? If somebody could clarify this that would be awesome. Thanks.

Haidut said: muscle cells at rest, preferring fat.

 

[Ulla]

How much grams of carbs someone eats before de novo lipogenesis starts?
I understood Haidut saying sth like 400 g? And then 200 g?
I'm not native English speaker and I'm not sure what I heard. Time: 15.00 minute.

 

[milk_lover]

How much grams of carbs someone eats before de novo lipogenesis starts?
I understood Haidut saying sth like 400 g? And then 200 g?
I'm not native English speaker and I'm not sure what I heard. Time: 15.00 minute.

He said until you hit the 400 to 500 grams per day of carbohydrates