aguilaroja
Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2013
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Generative Energy + Haidut #3: A Bioenergetic View of Weight Loss
Yes, it has been difficult to speak with even those with life science doctoral degrees, and persons undergoing treatment, about a deeper view of tamoxifen and so-called "estrogen antagonist" "selective estrogen-receptor modulators". It appears that it is somewhat safer to be using tamoxifen in the mouse liver, but that is little comfort for other species.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23907062
Evaluation of the genotoxicity of tamoxifen in the liver and kidney of F344 gpt delta transgenic rat in 3-week and 13-week repeated dose studies.
Kawamura Y1, Hayashi H, Kurata Y, Hiratsuka K, Masumura K, Nohmi T.
Toxicology. 2013 Oct 4;312:56-62. doi: 10.1016/j.tox.2013.07.014.
"...we treated female F344 gpt delta rats with tamoxifen (TAM) at 20 and 40mg/kg....TAM administration significantly increased gpt (point mutations) and Spi(-) (deletions) mutant frequencies (MFs) in the liver, the target organ of carcinogenesis; MFs were higher after treatment for 13 weeks than after treatment for 3 weeks. The MFs in the kidney did not increase in any of the TAM treatment groups."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25123088
Toxicology. 2014 Nov 5;325:12-20. doi: 10.1016/j.tox.2014.08.004.
Genotoxic, epigenetic, and transcriptomic effects of tamoxifen in mouse liver.
de Conti A1, Tryndyak V1, Churchwell MI1, Melnyk S2, Latendresse JR3, Muskhelishvili L3, Beland FA1, Pogribny IP4
"...there is evidence that tamoxifen is hepatocarcinogenic in rats, but not in mice. Additionally, it has been reported that tamoxifen may cause non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) in humans and experimental animals. Additionally, it has been reported that tamoxifen may cause non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) in humans and experimental animals."
"The results of the present study demonstrate that the resistance of mice to tamoxifen-induced liver carcinogenesis may be associated with its ability to induce genotoxic alterations only without affecting the cellular epigenome and an inability of tamoxifen to induce the development of NAFLD."
haidut said:Any term. Both of them are synthetic estrogens. Seriously, why would anyone consider taking something known to be a liver carcinogen (as all estrogens are)? Again, do not get fooled by the fact that clomid and tamofixen seem to act like anti-estrogens in some tissues. Their systemic effects is still highly estrogenic, so even if they raise testosterone in a male that extra testosterone will likely convert into estrogen anyways. Women taking clomid or tamoxifen have 11 times higher chance of endometrial cancer. How's that for a supposedly anti-estrogenic drug?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1672563
"...However, paradoxically, tamoxifen alone enhanced the appearance of gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase positive foci in diethylnitrosamine-initiated livers indicating that it is a promoter of hepatocarcinogenesis."
Yes, it has been difficult to speak with even those with life science doctoral degrees, and persons undergoing treatment, about a deeper view of tamoxifen and so-called "estrogen antagonist" "selective estrogen-receptor modulators". It appears that it is somewhat safer to be using tamoxifen in the mouse liver, but that is little comfort for other species.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23907062
Evaluation of the genotoxicity of tamoxifen in the liver and kidney of F344 gpt delta transgenic rat in 3-week and 13-week repeated dose studies.
Kawamura Y1, Hayashi H, Kurata Y, Hiratsuka K, Masumura K, Nohmi T.
Toxicology. 2013 Oct 4;312:56-62. doi: 10.1016/j.tox.2013.07.014.
"...we treated female F344 gpt delta rats with tamoxifen (TAM) at 20 and 40mg/kg....TAM administration significantly increased gpt (point mutations) and Spi(-) (deletions) mutant frequencies (MFs) in the liver, the target organ of carcinogenesis; MFs were higher after treatment for 13 weeks than after treatment for 3 weeks. The MFs in the kidney did not increase in any of the TAM treatment groups."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25123088
Toxicology. 2014 Nov 5;325:12-20. doi: 10.1016/j.tox.2014.08.004.
Genotoxic, epigenetic, and transcriptomic effects of tamoxifen in mouse liver.
de Conti A1, Tryndyak V1, Churchwell MI1, Melnyk S2, Latendresse JR3, Muskhelishvili L3, Beland FA1, Pogribny IP4
"...there is evidence that tamoxifen is hepatocarcinogenic in rats, but not in mice. Additionally, it has been reported that tamoxifen may cause non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) in humans and experimental animals. Additionally, it has been reported that tamoxifen may cause non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) in humans and experimental animals."
"The results of the present study demonstrate that the resistance of mice to tamoxifen-induced liver carcinogenesis may be associated with its ability to induce genotoxic alterations only without affecting the cellular epigenome and an inability of tamoxifen to induce the development of NAFLD."