HK Longevity

[Ainaga]

Anyone willing to take a stab at this?

 

[ThinPicking]

Not too rich, not too poor.

It would be easy to replicate. But elsewhere we have killing fields by design it seems.

 

[Peatful]

They value their elderly.
And the family unit….

 

[EustaceBagge]

I also remember something about Hong Kong and meat consumption being high.

 

[Ainaga]

Not too rich, not too poor.

It would be easy to replicate. But elsewhere we have killing fields by design it seems.

"not too rich, not too poor" is the case for many countries that do not then have high rates of longevity. what do you mean by "killing fields by design"?

 

[Ainaga]

They value their elderly.
And the family unit….

this is true. but it is also true of many, or most, other south east asian countries.

 

[Ainaga]

I also remember something about Hong Kong and meat consumption being high.

they do, mostly pork, but also a considerable amount of beef. you can choose between fatty or lean, depending on what the dish calls for. also high quantities of fish and some seafood, as well as high quantities of white rice (and white rice poridge), high quantities of vegetables (mostly green leafs, but the variety is endless). lots of fruit. also soft, usually sweet white wheat bread, usually for breakfast on the go. both rice and wheat noodles are a staple. they're big on eggs, as most countries are. they also have so-called century eggs, which are common. they're typical desserts consist of sugared bean soups (mostly mung with kelp, or adzuki with lotus seed), and things like sweet sesame soup or sweet walnut soup. soy sauce figures amply, but with the exception of one dipping sauce that is a mainstay but is used scarcely, they're food is not spicy. ginger and garlic are used in almost every dish. they drink soup every day, if they eat at home. these consist usually of pork with some vegetable, ginger, and some medicinal root such as codonopsis or licorice, and spices such as star anise, bay leaf, and aged orange peel. medicinal herbs and roots are used amply. they have a whole array of teas made of the most varied materia medica for every condition contemplated by chinese medicine, that are readily available at commonly found specialized stores that sell even at subway stations. a traditional chinese doctor can be found in every district, often more than one. they mostly treat with chinese medicine, and not with accupuncture or other forms of treatment more common in mainland china hospitals, for example. in hk, these doctors boil the herbs, flowers, roots, and other parts in traditional clay double boilers. plastic is ubiquitous. so is bad air. they walk like crazy, to school, to work. hiking and trailing is a common weekend activity, but they're big on all sorts of sports. parks are everwhere. so despite the air being contaminated -due to high population density, immense traffic, and industry in mainland china- there are lots and lots of trees in hk, even in urban areas. in fact, the vast majority of hk territory is protected forest area. people mostly live in urban areas however. cooking OILS: soy is now common, likely the one most used, but more traditionally peanut and pork fat. rice bran oil is also pretty common. loads of PUFA. nowadays, the rich use olive oil. perhaps more and more, due to mainland influence, deodorized rapeseed oil might be making headway. i've described in general terms their diet, but the actual variety is immense. they also of course have fast foods and eat their fair share of ***t, but most people come back to basics. food from all over the world is also widely available, and you can find any product from anywhere in the world somewhere in hk, more or less expensively. hk food, like all cantonese food, is considered within china to be "bland". it's incredibly delicious and complex though. it must also be noted that they also have top of the line conventional western medical services at hospitals and private clinics.

but certainly none of this fits in the whole within Ray Peat parameters, or within any of the parameters of any other health guru out there. so how to analyze this?

 

[EustaceBagge]

they do, mostly pork, but also a considerable amount of beef. you can choose between fatty or lean, depending on what the dish calls for. also high quantities of fish and some seafood, as well as high quantities of white rice (and white rice poridge), high quantities of vegetables (mostly green leafs, but the variety is endless). lots of fruit. also soft, usually sweet white wheat bread, usually for breakfast on the go. both rice and wheat noodles are a staple. they're big on eggs, as most countries are. they also have so-called century eggs, which are common. they're typical desserts consist of sugared bean soups (mostly mung with kelp, or adzuki with lotus seed), and things like sweet sesame soup or sweet walnut soup. soy sauce figures amply, but with the exception of one dipping sauce that is a mainstay but is used scarcely, they're food is not spicy. ginger and garlic are used in almost every dish. they drink soup every day, if they eat at home. these consist usually of pork with some vegetable, ginger, and some medicinal root such as codonopsis or licorice, and spices such as star anise, bay leaf, and aged orange peel. medicinal herbs and roots are used amply. they have a whole array of teas made of the most varied materia medica for every condition contemplated by chinese medicine, that are readily available at commonly found specialized stores that sell even at subway stations. a traditional chinese doctor can be found in every district, often more than one. they mostly treat with chinese medicine, and not with accupuncture or other forms of treatment more common in mainland china hospitals, for example. in hk, these doctors boil the herbs, flowers, roots, and other parts in traditional clay double boilers. plastic is ubiquitous. so is bad air. they walk like crazy, to school, to work. hiking and trailing is a common weekend activity, but they're big on all sorts of sports. parks are everwhere. so despite the air being contaminated -due to high population density, immense traffic, and industry in mainland china- there are lots and lots of trees in hk, even in urban areas. in fact, the vast majority of hk territory is protected forest area. people mostly live in urban areas however. cooking OILS: soy is now common, likely the one most used, but more traditionally peanut and pork fat. rice bran oil is also pretty common. loads of PUFA. nowadays, the rich use olive oil. perhaps more and more, due to mainland influence, deodorized rapeseed oil might be making headway. i've described in general terms their diet, but the actual variety is immense. they also of course have fast foods and eat their fair share of ***t, but most people come back to basics. food from all over the world is also widely available, and you can find any product from anywhere in the world somewhere in hk, more or less expensively. hk food, like all cantonese food, is considered within china to be "bland". it's incredibly delicious and complex though. it must also be noted that they also have top of the line conventional western medical services at hospitals and private clinics.

but certainly none of this fits in the whole within Ray Peat parameters, or within any of the parameters of any other health guru out there. so how to analyze this?

I think the pork, beef and seafood are enough to make sense of it. The biggest deficiency most people have nowadays is not a micronutrient, but a macronutrient, protein. So the fact that they are big on consuming meat already puts them ahead of others. They also seem to have a culture where movement on foot is common, which is very healthy if done everyday for even 30 minutes (destress + bloodflow).

I appreciate the detailed response btw. The layout looks overwhelming though haha.

 

[Mauritio]

There is something special about hk.
I swear its in the air . It might have to do with the air pressure or something along those lines. But I rarely felt better metabolically than when I was in HK . It wasn't the food , I was mostly eating bad stuff.

I remember my hair loss completely stopped, my face was less bloated to the degree where people saw photos of me in hk and they said ": that doesn't look like you"

I also exhibited symptoms of higher testosterone like full ,big muscles (without working out) and higher interest in women.

It's also not just the sea air, as I've been to many other seasides and never experienced something like this , actually quite the opposite : normally my sinuses and hair are a lot worse when at the seaside.
So there is something special about it , unfortunately I can't go back , because china has taken control of this place a lot more.

 

[EustaceBagge]

There is something special about hk.
I swear its in the air . It might have to do with the air pressure or something along those lines. But I rarely felt better metabolically than when I was in HK . It wasn't the food , I was mostly eating bad stuff.

I remember my hair loss completely stopped, my face was less bloated to the degree where people saw photos of me in hk and they said ": that doesn't look like you"

I also exhibited symptoms of higher testosterone like full ,big muscles (without working out) and higher interest in women.

It's also not just the sea air, as I've been to many other seasides and never experienced something like this , actually quite the opposite : normally my sinuses and hair are a lot worse when at the seaside.
So there is something special about it , unfortunately I can't go back , because china has taken control of this place a lot more.

Weird, the air quality is not that good in Hong Kong I thought. Maybe it is the walking, or just being stress-free? Or maybe what you considered bad stuff was filled with nutrient dense stuff like meat?

 

[Ainaga]

I think the pork, beef and seafood are enough to make sense of it. The biggest deficiency most people have nowadays is not a micronutrient, but a macronutrient, protein. So the fact that they are big on consuming meat already puts them ahead of others. They also seem to have a culture where movement on foot is common, which is very healthy if done everyday for even 30 minutes (destress + bloodflow).

I appreciate the detailed response btw. The layout looks overwhelming though haha.

yes, and most people walk more than 30 hour.

 

[Ainaga]

There is something special about hk.
I swear its in the air . It might have to do with the air pressure or something along those lines. But I rarely felt better metabolically than when I was in HK . It wasn't the food , I was mostly eating bad stuff.

I remember my hair loss completely stopped, my face was less bloated to the degree where people saw photos of me in hk and they said ": that doesn't look like you"

I also exhibited symptoms of higher testosterone like full ,big muscles (without working out) and higher interest in women.

It's also not just the sea air, as I've been to many other seasides and never experienced something like this , actually quite the opposite : normally my sinuses and hair are a lot worse when at the seaside.
So there is something special about it , unfortunately I can't go back , because china has taken control of this place a lot more.

HK has a well-earned reputation for being extremely humid. I wonder what your body type is and if high humidity benefits you. It doesn't everyone. But I do also feel HK has a special vibe. And if you are a straight man, I wouldn't be surprised if part of why you feel so sexy there is the women. They're beautiful, attractive, and friendly. Plus Cantonese is a very sexy language.

 

[Ainaga]

Weird, the air quality is not that good in Hong Kong I thought. Maybe it is the walking, or just being stress-free? Or maybe what you considered bad stuff was filled with nutrient dense stuff like meat?

life in HK is the opposite of stress-free. in addition, their diet is high protein, high carb, and usually on the low fat side, though not always. plus, their fat is mostly pufa. yes, high nutrient. also vegetable rich. there is a false notion that chinese people don't drink milk, and while this might have been true historically -except for the chinese of inner mongolia, tibet, qinghai, and some areas of yunnan- milk is nowadays in hk just as common as it is in the west. also, besides soy sauce, some soy consumption, but not high, and not fermented, except for fuyu, aspergillus fermented wine preserved tofu, used sparingly.

 

[Ainaga]

HK has a well-earned reputation for being extremely humid. I wonder what your body type is and if high humidity benefits you. It doesn't everyone. But I do also feel HK has a special vibe. And if you are a straight man, I wouldn't be surprised if part of why you feel so sexy there is the women. They're beautiful, attractive, and friendly. Plus Cantonese is a very sexy language.

and yes, china is gradually, and gradually more quickly too, ruining the place

 

[ThinPicking]

"not too rich, not too poor" is the case for many countries that do not then have high rates of longevity.

Most other countries draw their people to the extreme ends of a wider spectrum and don't order public health policy to compensate for the likely outcomes. If anything they're ordered to exasperate it. It's in the study you posted. There are other ways of looking at this, I'm just going with the flow here.

"Hong Kong's leading longevity is the result of fewer diseases of poverty while suppressing the diseases of affluence. A unique combination of economic prosperity and low levels of smoking with development contributed to this achievement. As such, it offers a framework that could be replicated through deliberate policies in developing and developed populations globally."

what do you mean by "killing fields by design"?

Take a Look Around

 

[Nfinkelstein]

But there is almost no difference between HK (85.3) and Japan (85). You're dealing with such small differences. Singapore and Macau are about the same (slightly less than 85). It's their northeast-asian genetics and likely (imo) the huge amount of iodine in their high seafood diets.

 

[golder]

But there is almost no difference between HK (85.3) and Japan (85). You're dealing with such small differences. Singapore and Macau are about the same (slightly less than 85). It's their northeast-asian genetics and likely (imo) the huge amount of iodine in their high seafood diets.

I thought too much iodine is counterproductive to thyroid health?

 

[Ainaga]

Most other countries draw their people to the extreme ends of a wider spectrum and don't order public health policy to compensate for the likely outcomes. If anything they're ordered to exasperate it. It's in the study you posted. There are other ways of looking at this, I'm just going with the flow here.

"Hong Kong's leading longevity is the result of fewer diseases of poverty while suppressing the diseases of affluence. A unique combination of economic prosperity and low levels of smoking with development contributed to this achievement. As such, it offers a framework that could be replicated through deliberate policies in developing and developed populations globally."


Take a Look Around

but they are also victims of designed killing fields, it's no different

 

[Nfinkelstein]

I thought too much iodine is counterproductive to thyroid health?

I'm outside of Peat-orthodoxy on iodine, I supplement it. @burtlancast has made some helpful posts on the pro-iodine side, as have others on this forum, these are 2 good threads in case interested: Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently and also Ray Peat On Iodine

 

[Mauritio]

HK has a well-earned reputation for being extremely humid. I wonder what your body type is and if high humidity benefits you. It doesn't everyone. But I do also feel HK has a special vibe. And if you are a straight man, I wouldn't be surprised if part of why you feel so sexy there is the women. They're beautiful, attractive, and friendly. Plus Cantonese is a very sexy language.

I know and I travelled south east Asia for 2 months before coming to HK and I didn't do well in humid climates it made me feel drained and slightly sick . The opposite in HK!

I here you on the woman. I really liked them in Hk , they were so sweet! They could serve as a role model for women in western nations.
Almost all of them highly educated and have degrees ,yet they're still in they're feminine energy. Very pleasant experience and nice to be around . And as a westerner you kind of have VIP status over there, which doesn't hurt :)