Horrible bounding pulse only helped by taking ibuprofen

[Electrisio]

For the last 5+ years I have suffered from a heavy heartbeat/ bounding pulse, which is made worse by a lot of things. This includes weightlifting and many, many supplements. Vitamin D, magnesium citrate, ashwagandha, creatine, any NO vasodilator, and many many more. If I were to take a new supplement it more than likely cause this symptom. It has been horrible, I am unable to get deep sleep because of it. The pulse stops my brain from being able to rest and despite sleeping 8 hours a night I do not feel refreshed. The quality of the sleep I get correlates with the strength of heartbeat/pulse.

I have had all the relevant bloods, ecg, holter, echocardiogram, MRI etc. Shows my heart is towards top of range in size and with high stroke volume, but nothing too crazy apparently My blood pressure is very normal. Cardiologist doesn't really know what's up, he just says that I am a fit young man and therefore I can feel my pulse more - which I don't buy at all. I started TRT 6 months ago which has made the symptoms worse. The higher the dose, the worse the symptoms were and I now sit at a reasonable level (600-700ngdl), but I know that this is definitely making the pulse worse. What is strange is that I had tests done both before and during TRT and there is no difference in my cardiac markers, blood pressure etc.

I've tried everything, all the supplements (coq10, magnesium glycinate(which I can tolerate), potassium citrate. Beta blockers do not work at all, they make me feel more relaxed but the pulse is still far too prominent. I don't drink alcohol or caffeine.

I came across a thread on a ME forum where people talk about this issue and said the ibuprofen helps and it actually seems to help a fair bit with my symptoms. They say it's to do with ibuprofen blocking epinephrine, but don't really go into too much detail about it. I am just trying to figure out what this means for my health, and if I can identify some underlying cause that I can address, perhaps more tests to have etc.

 

[Vanset]

Have you had complete blood cell count done? I have almost exact same symptoms, but mine have been steadily getting better over the last year. For me the trigger was stress. Start by dropping all supplements for a few months.

 

[Electrisio]

Have you had complete blood cell count done? I have had a similar symptoms, but mine has been steadily getting better over the last year. For me the trigger was stress. Start by dropping all supplements for a few months.

Yeah, high hematocrit and hemoglobin but TRT increases it. I was high before TRT though and it was possible to have days prior to TRT without palpitations provided I avoided triggers.

 

[Vanset]

Yeah, high hematocrit and hemoglobin but TRT increases it. I was high before TRT though and it was possible to have days prior to TRT without palpitations provided I avoided triggers.

Can you feel your pulse all around your body? In your stomach, fingertips, neck etc. ? It could very well be the high hematocrit and hemoglobin. The doctor didn't come to that conclusion? Have you tried doing something about your high hematocrit and hemoglobin?

 

[Electrisio]

Can you feel your pulse all around your body? In your stomach, fingertips, neck etc. ? It could very well be the high hematocrit and hemoglobin. The doctor didn't come to that conclusion? Have you tried doing something about your high hematocrit and hemoglobin

Yup I can feel it everywhere, I tried donating but there wasn't any difference in symptoms.

 

[Vanset]

Yup I can feel it everywhere, I tried donating but there wasn't any difference in symptoms.

I really don't know. It's a mystery to me as well. Do you get any POTS symptoms? Dizziness or heart palipitations upon standing up? Blood pressure normal or on the lower side?
I can tell exactly when it started happening for me and it was after a 3-4 months of very heavy stress and severe insomnia. What's the dose of ibuprofen that helps you?

 

[Electrisio]

I really don't know. It's a mystery to me as well. Do you get any POTS symptoms? Dizziness or heart palipitations upon standing up? Blood pressure normal or on the lower side?
I can tell exactly when it started happening for me and it was after a 3-4 months of very heavy stress and severe insomnia. What's the dose of ibuprofen that helps you?

I don't get POTS symptoms but I did a standup test at home and am pretty sure I have a heart rate change that seems almost POTS levels. Blood pressure is low normal, systolic tends to be 105-115, and diastolic slightly low at 55-65. I see no correlation between blood pressure readings and symptoms.

I used to have terrible insomnia/stress and users in this other forum said the same. I had occasional days before TRT where I could get a good night sleep every once in a while. Although I get enough sleep, the quality is awful because of the pulse. I do my best to avoid triggers but it always seeps back in. I have to monitor diet very closely, sometimes I accidentally start consuming something with certain vitamins without realizing it. Sometimes months go by and then I stop consuming it and I feel better (nowhere near fully better though). There was one time I was getting really bad palpitations/pulse for no reason and then I realized the cereal I started eating that week was fortified with vitamin D, which makes the symptoms waaay worse.

I don't really know how to snap out of it. Like 400mg, two tablets.

 

[Vanset]

I don't get POTS symptoms but I did a standup test at home and am pretty sure I have a heart rate change that seems almost POTS levels. Blood pressure is low normal, systolic tends to be 105-115, and diastolic slightly low at 55-65. I see no correlation between blood pressure readings and symptoms.

I used to have terrible insomnia/stress and users in this other forum said the same. I had occasional days before TRT where I could get a good night sleep every once in a while. Although I get enough sleep, the quality is awful because of the pulse. I do my best to avoid triggers but it always seeps back in. I have to monitor diet very closely, sometimes I accidentally start consuming something with certain vitamins without realizing it. Sometimes months go by and then I stop consuming it and I feel better (nowhere near fully better though). There was one time I was getting really bad palpitations/pulse for no reason and then I realized the cereal I started eating that week was fortified with vitamin D, which makes the symptoms waaay worse.

I don't really know how to snap out of it. Like 400mg, two tablets.

Interesting that vitamin D makes it worse for you, I haven't noticed any correlation. Any stimulant will make it worse though, especially caffeine. By mistake I had some dark chocolate in the evening yesterday and it was terrible. In general I've noticed that after the stressful period I have developed hypersensitivity to various substances. Alcohol gives me complete insomnia now, caffeine as well. Even if I drink coffee in the morning it's the most reliable way of inducing complete insomnia for me. Nicotine doesn't cause it though, given I don't smoke too close to bed time.

I don't have anything to add right now, especially since you have covered all bases with various tests over the years, but if I find something that helps I will definitely give you an update. I'm gonna try the ibuprofen.

 

[Electrisio]

Interesting that vitamin D makes it worse for you, I haven't noticed any correlation. Any stimulant will make it worse though, especially caffeine. By mistake I had some dark chocolate in the evening yesterday and it was terrible. In general I've noticed that after the stressful period I have developed hypersensitivity to various substances. Alcohol gives me complete insomnia now, caffeine as well. Even if I drink coffee in the morning it's the most reliable way of inducing complete insomnia for me. Nicotine doesn't cause it though, given I don't smoke too close to bed time.

I don't have anything to add right now, especially since you have covered all bases with various tests over the years, but if I find something that helps I will definitely give you an update. I'm gonna try the ibuprofen.

Thanks. So for you, it was started by stress/insomnia but you haven't been able to shake it? I presume our brain may reshape and this state becomes normal.

 

[Vanset]

Thanks. So for you, it was started by stress/insomnia but you haven't been able to shake it? I presume our brain may reshape and this state becomes normal.

Yeah, stress was the trigger, but in my case it has been getting better ever since it started one year ago. Slow and steady for me. I think it definitely has to do with elevated stress hormones. I suspect our adrenals might be hypersensitive.

 

[InChristAlone]

I have this pounding heart feeling whenever I stay up too late, my heart will race and pound and wake me up. Also back when I was super thin and under chronic stress it happened a lot. But it was the worst right after I would take progesterone. Some nights I barely slept soundly because the pounding was just too annoying. I was told it could be dehydration or low potassium by Ray peat fans. But it doesn't happen much anymore off of the progesterone.

I think playing with testosterone could be a factor. Make sure you eat plenty of calories as well and stop doing supplements.

 

[looking2grow96]

How much do you weigh

 

[Electrisio]

How much do you weigh

83 kg at 5 ft 10 - probably 14/15% bodyfat.

 

[Electrisio]

I have this pounding heart feeling whenever I stay up too late, my heart will race and pound and wake me up. Also back when I was super thin and under chronic stress it happened a lot. But it was the worst right after I would take progesterone. Some nights I barely slept soundly because the pounding was just too annoying. I was told it could be dehydration or low potassium by Ray peat fans. But it doesn't happen much anymore off of the progesterone.

I think playing with testosterone could be a factor. Make sure you eat plenty of calories as well and stop doing supplements.

Testosterone is definitely a factor, but it's still an abnormal reaction to the dose I'm on. I actually find the palpitations are much worse after eating, especially carbs.

 

[Vanset]

I have this pounding heart feeling whenever I stay up too late, my heart will race and pound and wake me up. Also back when I was super thin and under chronic stress it happened a lot. But it was the worst right after I would take progesterone. Some nights I barely slept soundly because the pounding was just too annoying. I was told it could be dehydration or low potassium by Ray peat fans. But it doesn't happen much anymore off of the progesterone.

I think playing with testosterone could be a factor. Make sure you eat plenty of calories as well and stop doing supplements.

Interesting that you mentioned this because it's the same for me. If I don't fall asleep in like 1 to 1.5 hours, because I'm using my phone or something then I get a weird second wind and the heart bounding gets much worse.

 

[Vanset]

Testosterone is definitely a factor, but it's still an abnormal reaction to the dose I'm on. I actually find the palpitations are much worse after eating, especially carbs.

Yup. I wonder if it's the insulin spike that worsens it? Meat + regular potatoes meal makes it much worse for me, but high GI carbs alone worsen it as well just on their own.

Now what's the relationship between all those variables?

 

[Vanset]

So what makes it worse for us ITT, so far: "Vitamin D, magnesium citrate, ashwagandha, creatine, any NO vasodilator", progesterone, testosterone, exercise, caffeine, alcohol, carbohydrates, staying up too late. Also one more addition that makes it worse for me personally is HEAT. The bounding gets worse if I get too hot from a meal or from being in the sun for too long. What do these have in common?

 

[xeliex]

I used to get that with high histamine problems / low thyroid. But unlike you, it coincided with POTS. A little bit of thyroid helped a lot along with cyproheptadine PRN.

Best of luck

 

[Smitty]

Too much magnesium always triggers a bounding heart rate for me. In your op you said mag citrate also does the same for you so I’m assuming you don’t take it anymore? Have you had your cortisol levels checked? Do you consume adequate salt throughout the day?

 

[redsun]

For the last 5+ years I have suffered from a heavy heartbeat/ bounding pulse, which is made worse by a lot of things. This includes weightlifting and many, many supplements. Vitamin D, magnesium citrate, ashwagandha, creatine, any NO vasodilator, and many many more. If I were to take a new supplement it more than likely cause this symptom. It has been horrible, I am unable to get deep sleep because of it. The pulse stops my brain from being able to rest and despite sleeping 8 hours a night I do not feel refreshed. The quality of the sleep I get correlates with the strength of heartbeat/pulse.

I have had all the relevant bloods, ecg, holter, echocardiogram, MRI etc. Shows my heart is towards top of range in size and with high stroke volume, but nothing too crazy apparently My blood pressure is very normal. Cardiologist doesn't really know what's up, he just says that I am a fit young man and therefore I can feel my pulse more - which I don't buy at all. I started TRT 6 months ago which has made the symptoms worse. The higher the dose, the worse the symptoms were and I now sit at a reasonable level (600-700ngdl), but I know that this is definitely making the pulse worse. What is strange is that I had tests done both before and during TRT and there is no difference in my cardiac markers, blood pressure etc.

I've tried everything, all the supplements (coq10, magnesium glycinate(which I can tolerate), potassium citrate. Beta blockers do not work at all, they make me feel more relaxed but the pulse is still far too prominent. I don't drink alcohol or caffeine.

I came across a thread on a ME forum where people talk about this issue and said the ibuprofen helps and it actually seems to help a fair bit with my symptoms. They say it's to do with ibuprofen blocking epinephrine, but don't really go into too much detail about it. I am just trying to figure out what this means for my health, and if I can identify some underlying cause that I can address, perhaps more tests to have etc.

You probably have low acetylcholine activity. Acetylcholine is needed to slow down the heart rate and opposes adrenergic activity which increases heart rate and contractile force.

Androgens can increase adrenergic activity, partially due to the androgens themselves but also conversion into DHT and estrogen have their own effects as well.

I would try to figure out how much choline you get daily in your diet. Likely you don't get that much. I would work your way up to 800mg to 1g+ of choline daily. This should reduce heart rate and the heavy pulse.

Especially eggs but also meat are the best sources of choline. So you need to substantially increase the intake of these foods. Maybe you will still be able to stay on TRT if the extra choline works.