How long have you been using natural Progesterone?

[Ginali]

Hello,
I'm a mother of two and I've joined this forum with two main topics in mind: "Progesterone" and "Fish Oil." Let's delve into the first one.
For years, I've grappled with unsettling symptoms, even though countless tests came back normal. From debilitating brain fog and exhaustion to heart palpitations and painful, lumpy breasts before my period, my symptoms got so severe that I couldn't even drive. After some research, I suspected it might be perimenopause, which led me to the works of Ray Peat and Barbara O'Neil, and subsequently to progesterone creams containing Wild Yam.
I started using this specific natural strong wild jam cream: [Amazon Link] Amazon product ASIN B07GDJRZB3View: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Wild-Yams-Extra-Strong-Cream/dp/B07GDJRZB3/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2A3YE56K6A28B&keywords=wild+jam+cream&qid=1698127405&sprefix=wild+jam+cream%2Caps%2C119&sr=8-2
. Just after a day, I felt remarkably clearer and more energized. However, soon after, I experienced sore breasts (though not painful or lumpy) and constipation.
My research into potential side effects alarmed me. I came across statements indicating that "natural progesterone from wild yam could lead to increased estrogen levels." And while I tend to be skeptical of mainstream information, I was shaken by testimonies from women who claim they developed cancer after using natural progesterone. Despite having comprehensive articles from Ray Peat on how progesterone might prevent cancer, I'm still scared. I would love to hear from those who have been using progesterone for an extended period. Do you opt for the cream or pills? Have you experienced any adverse effects? How many years have you been using it?

I'm currently thriving and wouldn't want to discontinue use. But I'm apprehensive, feeling like I'm treading on thin ice with hormones. On a side note, while I maintain a healthy diet, I realize that some "healthy" foods, like seed oils, might have elevated my estrogen levels and therefore all those symptoms came from before the progesterone cream.

I'd be immensely grateful for any insights or advice. This forum is a wonderful place with amazing and intelligent people. Thank you so much!

 

[tasfarelel]

I'm a guy, but your question relates to both genders. If we believe Ray Peats theories, progesterone will NOT cause cancer. What will cause all these negative symptoms are artificial progestins (that in science are often taken as "progesterone") and in those "wild yams" creams, the phytoestrogens that are often inside. So my recommendation is to avoid any of the over the counter creams, and only use products that have pharmacy-level 100% progesterone. Then the progesterone doesn't need to be derived from plants, can also be chemically produced (as the one from wild yams is also chemically modified).

ProgestE and the idealabs products should be safe.

 

[Mad]

I'm a guy, but your question relates to both genders. If we believe Ray Peats theories, progesterone will NOT cause cancer. What will cause all these negative symptoms are artificial progestins (that in science are often taken as "progesterone") and in those "wild yams" creams, the phytoestrogens that are often inside. So my recommendation is to avoid any of the over the counter creams, and only use products that have pharmacy-level 100% progesterone. Then the progesterone doesn't need to be derived from plants, can also be chemically produced (as the one from wild yams is also chemically modified).

ProgestE and the idealabs products should be safe.

Progest E is derived from wild yams

 

[Advocate2021]

Ive been using progest-e for 25 plus years. Only side effects have been youth, fertility and vitality lol.. ill never stop and dont forsee every going through menopause. IT does everything Dr. Peat says it does and more!!

 

[Ginali]

Thank you so much, Tasfarelel. The idea of using "pharmacy-level progesterone" is challenging for me since progesterone from wild yam already sounds more natural and safer. I'm generally wary of anything associated with the term "pharmacy." However, both your responses (and Advocate2021's too) have put me at ease! Advocate2021, it's especially reassuring to hear you've been using it for 25 years! That's truly amazing.
Advocate2021, wouldn't you mind sharing how you personally use Progest-E? I found it here, and it mentions you can take it orally or apply it to the gums. This surprised me, as I assumed it would be used like a cream: https://www.longnaturalhealth.com/Dr-Peats-Progest-E-Complex-34-ml

 

[tasfarelel]

Progest E is derived from wild yams

Don't distract the OP - what I wrote is that it doesn't matter if the progesterone is from a "natural" source. A product from wild yams is not better than any pharmaceutical grade progesterone (which one will unlikely get). Creams with progesterone from wild yams may not be safe, ProgestE is likely safe.

And last thing - The stuff from Wild Yams is not progesterone - it's just close to it and still needs some chemical conversion steps before it is indeed human progesterone

 

[Mad]

Don't distract the OP - what I wrote is that it doesn't matter if the progesterone is from a "natural" source. A product from wild yams is not better than any pharmaceutical grade progesterone (which one will unlikely get). Creams with progesterone from wild yams may not be safe, ProgestE is likely safe.

And last thing - The stuff from Wild Yams is not progesterone - it's just close to it and still needs some chemical conversion steps before it is indeed human progesterone

Not trying to "distract" anyone. I hate how people are so crabby in replies to each other on this forum. We are all on the journey to better health, you should give others some grace. I only meant as a clarification since I've seen people say that a few times on the forum now that progest-E is not derived from wild yams. I have used progest-E for a while and like it. The info clearly states it is from wild yam. I am not claiming that is good or bad.

 

[Birdie]

I've been using Progest-E (on the gums) for 12+ years. It's the one Ray formulated. Before that I used one made up by a compounding pharmacy on my skin.

My husband uses it too.

 

[Advocate2021]

Thank you so much, Tasfarelel. The idea of using "pharmacy-level progesterone" is challenging for me since progesterone from wild yam already sounds more natural and safer. I'm generally wary of anything associated with the term "pharmacy." However, both your responses (and Advocate2021's too) have put me at ease! Advocate2021, it's especially reassuring to hear you've been using it for 25 years! That's truly amazing.
Advocate2021, wouldn't you mind sharing how you personally use Progest-E? I found it here, and it mentions you can take it orally or apply it to the gums. This surprised me, as I assumed it would be used like a cream: Dr. Peat's Progest E Oil Complex, 34 ml

I use it on my gum pretty generously on underside of lower lip both morning and night for second half of each menstrual cycle- so for two weeks each month. I used to do a smaller amount for the week prior and following menstruation (so three weeks on, one week off which is schedule for menopausal women normally) but my cycles seem to be improving with age probably due to refining my thyroid regimen which is much better these last few years, so i went back to the customary schedule for fertile menstruating women of 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off and my cycles are very good this way and usually 28 days give or take a day or two sometimes.

 

[Ginali]

Birdie, that's fantastic! I'm currently working on getting my husband on board too. Advocate2021, I truly appreciate you sharing your routine. I'm considering adopting your schedule of 2 weeks on, followed by 2 weeks off. How do you typically feel during those off weeks? I've only been using it for 12 days, and I must admit that the idea of taking a two-week break is a bit daunting. I'm concerned about a potential surge back in estrogen.

 

[Advocate2021]

Birdie, that's fantastic! I'm currently working on getting my husband on board too. Advocate2021, I truly appreciate you sharing your routine. I'm considering adopting your schedule of 2 weeks on, followed by 2 weeks off. How do you typically feel during those off weeks? I've only been using it for 12 days, and I must admit that the idea of taking a two-week break is a bit daunting. I'm concerned about a potential surge back in estrogen.

If you feel better with progesterone and the priority at present is symptom relief, why not use it 3 weeks on , one week off then?the week off is the week of mensrutation and one week off minimum is needed per Dr. Peat so that the liver does not excrete it. So break days 1-7 and take it days 8- 28 , perhaps less as i used to do days 8-13 (or up to ovulation).

See if it effects your cycle timing; but even so, if symptom relief is the priority, perhaps that does not matter right now. As my thyroid function has improved over the years, I have found that beginning the progesterone post ovulation for me creates more consistent 28 day cycles. if I start too early, menstruation can come earlier than 28 days - which is why i switched to the 2 weeks on , 2 weeks off schedule for menstruating women.

But throughout my life, when i have had special circumstances warranting it, i have used it whenever needed and even have taken very large amounts when in crisis. But due to the cumulative effects of balance, my cycles have gotten better and better with time. unusual i know, but many call me "Melissa Button". As soon as the world is in less jeopardy and i can take time away from my legal mission to address current insanity, I plan to bring the health and anti-aging mission I have more boldly to the world and seems the older i get, the more compelling it will be! my goal is to completely dodge menopause- will see where i am at at 70 or 80 lol.

 

[Birdie]

Birdie, that's fantastic! I'm currently working on getting my husband on board too. Advocate2021, I truly appreciate you sharing your routine. I'm considering adopting your schedule of 2 weeks on, followed by 2 weeks off. How do you typically feel during those off weeks? I've only been using it for 12 days, and I must admit that the idea of taking a two-week break is a bit daunting. I'm concerned about a potential surge back in estrogen.

I use it for 25 days, then 6 or 7 days off. I used it continually around 2 years ago, but then noticed Ray said it worked better with a break. I have to keep reading Ray's stuff because I'm continually finding tweaks that improve things for me. Somehow, I just started doing the Progest-E every day for example.

Oh, just read Advocate's reply and she covered it well.

 

[Waynish]

The idea that some mysterious lab process turns an estrogenic wild yam extract (diosgenin; that was deemed a phytoestrogen and used for birth control in the 60s) into the ultimate anti-estrogen is laughable if you think about it. And also amusing how every easily accessible article explicitly states "you can't get progesterone from yams, you must get it from an authorized dealer who got it from a certified lab!" And looking at some of the synthesis processes that are public, part of the process is exposing the yam extract to HCl - so basically like what happens when you eating it (considering your stomach has HCL)! Whatever you do folks, trust the "scientists" and don't expect any positive health effects from well cooked wild yams!

What is with all of the secrecy around these things? So they can sell very inexpensive ingredients as supplements? Or to poison you slowly? Wild yams official contain diosgenin, which these geniuses claim to be able to turn into "bioidentical progesterone," but how can you actually verify that? Another big source of diosgenin is soybean oil, by the way.

 

[freyasam]

The idea that some mysterious lab process turns an estrogenic wild yam extract (diosgenin; that was deemed a phytoestrogen and used for birth control in the 60s) into the ultimate anti-estrogen is laughable if you think about it. And also amusing how every easily accessible article explicitly states "you can't get progesterone from yams, you must get it from an authorized dealer who got it from a certified lab!" And looking at some of the synthesis processes that are public, part of the process is exposing the yam extract to HCl - so basically like what happens when you eating it (considering your stomach has HCL)! Whatever you do folks, trust the "scientists" and don't expect any positive health effects from well cooked wild yams!

What is with all of the secrecy around these things? So they can sell very inexpensive ingredients as supplements? Or to poison you slowly? Wild yams official contain diosgenin, which these geniuses claim to be able to turn into "bioidentical progesterone," but how can you actually verify that? Another big source of diosgenin is soybean oil, by the way.

Where does one source wild yams? I used to go foraging for wild foods and I never heard of anyone wildcrafting wild yams. If there are people wild crafting wild yams, they don't grow everywhere and most people don't have access to natural areas anyway.

If you mean to just get progesterone from yams, I assume you would have to consume a lot and that would mean high levels of beta-carotene.