How to get coconut oil WITHOUT its fraction of unsaturated oils?

[gilson d dantas]

The coconut oil that exists in the market [at least here in Brazil] ALWAYS brings that fraction of unsaturated oils that is present in coconut oil in natura. All coconut oil on the market - whether cold-pressed or hot-pressed - preserves the unsaturated oil portion. How to get a product that does not contain these unsaturated oils? It would be, in this case, hydrogenated coconut oil. Where do I get it?

 

[Dutchie]

That would basically be mct oil (made from coconut).

 

[ecstatichamster]

In the USA, buy “92F. Coconut oil” which is hydrogenated and contains 100% saturated fat. That’s all I use. Don’t let “hydrogenated” scare you.

 

[gilson d dantas]

That would basically be mct oil (made from coconut).

Yes. But the MCT is not coconut oil: the MCT brings zero lauric acid, the main element of coconut oil.

 

[gilson d dantas]

In the USA, buy “92F. Coconut oil” which is hydrogenated and contains 100% saturated fat. That’s all I use. Don’t let “hydrogenated” scare you.

Very good. By the way, what is to hidrogenate coconut oil?

 

[Zpol]

I get this one...
Coconut oil 92 degree organic carrier refined cold pressed 100% pure 4 oz buy | H&B Oils Center Co

 

[ecstatichamster]

Very good. By the way, what is to hidrogenate coconut oil?

applying hydrogen pressurized in the presence of a catalyst. It saturates the double bonds eliminating all PUFA fats. It has a VERY VERY bad reputation from the past with the idea that hydrogenated edible oil used to be in EVERY prepared food, the way UNsaturated is now. And they virtually eliminating hyrogenated edible oils, which created a massive PUFA crisis.

 

[catharsis]

Yeah, I agree with @ecstatichamster . Fully hydrogenated coconut oil, I think, is used to establish EFA deficiency but you could also go low to no fat as a diet for a few weeks. The small fraction of PUFA in coconut oil is not very harmful; the few teaspoons used in conventional cooking today is what you should be looking out for. Cooking everything without oil or with only coconut oil should get you close to EFA deficiency but it takes about 4 years to slowly detox PUFA.

PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Since removing PUFA from the body is one of the primary goals of Peatarians, naturally anything that can speed up the process of waiting at least 4 years would be highly desirable. I have been experimenting myself relentlessly with speeding that process up (as safely as possible). While...

raypeatforum.com

 

[damngoodcoffee]

At least here in Finland the hydrogenated coconut oil is in different aisle in the stores than other oils. It's next to the margarines and butters etc in the cold shelf.

 

[gilson d dantas]

And they virtually eliminating hyrogenated edible oils, which created a massive PUFA crisis.

I did´t undestand this idea

 

[gilson d dantas]

Yeah, I agree with @ecstatichamster . Fully hydrogenated coconut oil, I think, is used to establish EFA deficiency but you could also go low to no fat as a diet for a few weeks. The small fraction of PUFA in coconut oil is not very harmful; the few teaspoons used in conventional cooking today is what you should be looking out for. Cooking everything without oil or with only coconut oil should get you close to EFA deficiency but it takes about 4 years to slowly detox PUFA.

PUFA Depletion Can (probably) Be Accomplished In 30 Days!

Since removing PUFA from the body is one of the primary goals of Peatarians, naturally anything that can speed up the process of waiting at least 4 years would be highly desirable. I have been experimenting myself relentlessly with speeding that process up (as safely as possible). While...

raypeatforum.com

Yes, but I think that if we use coconut oil therapeutically, we use many tablespoon daily.
It is impossible stay only with teaspoons...
And 12 g of coconut oil [around one tablespoon] brings 1 g of PUFA. So, if I take five or six tablespoon daily [therapeutically] and more the many tablespoon of cooking coconut oil, we will have MANY GRAMS of PUFA daily. Perhaps six or more grams of PUFA. I think it is harmful. I think we don´t want that for our health.
And I think that "go low to no fat as a diet for a few weeks" it is not a good idea; better to get coconut oil WITHOUT PUFA. More ideas about that?

 

[gilson d dantas]

I get this one...
Coconut oil 92 degree organic carrier refined cold pressed 100% pure 4 oz buy | H&B Oils Center Co

We don´t see "hidrogenated coconut oil" anywhere. they say organic, cold pressed, but dont say it is WITHOUT PUFA... And it is a cosmetic stuff ["This is a great oil for general moisturizing and serves as a protective layer, helping to retain the moisture in your skin. It also acts as a mild oil suitable for those with inflamed and irritated skin, and those with skin sensitivities. Is also an excellent base for massage oils"]. It is a hidrogenated coconut oil in your opinion?

 

[catharsis]

Yes, but I think that if we use coconut oil therapeutically, we use many tablespoon daily.
It is impossible stay only with teaspoons...
And 12 g of coconut oil [around one tablespoon] brings 1 g of PUFA. So, if I take five or six tablespoon daily [therapeutically] and more the many tablespoon of cooking coconut oil, we will have MANY GRAMS of PUFA daily. Perhaps six or more grams of PUFA. I think it is harmful. I think we don´t want that for our health.
And I think that "go low to no fat as a diet for a few weeks" it is not a good idea; better to get coconut oil WITHOUT PUFA. More ideas about that?

I could have phrased my post better. I am suggesting that the small amount of PUFA in coconut oil is not something you should worry about compared to the PUFA-containing oils (sunflower, soybean, canola) used in conventional cooking today. A tablespoon of those oils is far more problematic than 6 tablespoons of coconut oil; the SFAs protect against the small amount of PUFA in coconut oil. Ray does not advocate for a high-fat diet but rather one that has predominately saturated fat. He adds a tablespoon to rice bowls but I think that's the extent of his use of coconut oil (in large quantities). He cooks and fries in it but I don't think he eats spoons of it. It is more important to avoid all PUFA sources than it is to have a spoon of hydrogenated coconut oil with a PUFA-containing meal.

You can go on a low or no fat diet for a few weeks to deplete PUFA from your tissues. Low/no fat diets can lower hormone production but some studies show animals not developing cancer due to it. Not necessarily a bad thing. I have seen Ray mention briefly about equal ratios of the macronutrients being pretty good for a diet, it depends on the person though. I have had good health from very high carbs and equal amounts of fat and protein (sometimes higher on the protein). Maybe 50/25/25 for C/F/P.

 

[Zpol]

It is a hidrogenated coconut oil in your opinion?

I emailed the company and they assured me the product is 100% hydrogenated.
We've been eating it for years now. So far so good!

 

[gilson d dantas]

I emailed the company and they assured me the product is 100% hydrogenated.
We've been eating it for years now. So far so good!

Good. But how can it be hydrogenated if they don't mention it in the product? More suspicious yet when they don't even mention that it's PUFAS free. How to believe?

 

[Kray]

Good. But how can it be hydrogenated if they don't mention it in the product? More suspicious yet when they don't even mention that it's PUFAS free. How to believe?

Here you go- this is the brand I bought, and it says "hydrogenated" on the listing details. I believe "92 degrees" implies the product is fully hydrogenated. Depending upon the company you buy from, they may not specify the term 'hydrogenated', but if you know it's 92-degree-made, it should be.

COCONUT OIL | 92 DEGREE | RBD | KOSHER

Shay and Company, Inc. is your wholesale distributor of a wide selection of raw carrier oils, butters, soap and candlemaking supplies, essential oils, butters, and more.

shayandcompany.com

 

[Jamsey]

Worth keeping in mind if considering using hydrogenated coconut oil

1. The Raney Catalyst is ancient, dating back to 1932.⁽¹⁾ To hydrogenate a lipid double=bond, it is first helpful to stabilize the H₂ by adsorbing it onto a metal. Palladium and platinum work the best but are expensive, so nickel is commonly used to hydrogenate the oils. To save the catalytic nickel, it is electroplated onto aluminum particles which are made porous—with an acid—to increase surface area. Hence, Raney particles are mostly nickel and aluminum.

'The Raney catalyst is prepared by alloying equal parts of nickel and aluminum and then dissolving out the latter with aqueous sodium hydroxide.' ―Covert⁽¹⁾​

These Raney particles adsorb hydrogen gas. The hydrogen atoms are then donated to lipid double bonds—saturating them with hydrogen.

2. Nickel in hydrogenated oils is usually stressed, as this is actually somewhat toxic, and is generally found at around one part per million.⁽²⁾⁽³⁾ But for some reason, aluminum isn't looked for as often. But it has been found, of course, since it's always associated with the Raney catalyst.

'This interest derives from the association of trace metals with the origin of oils (soils and fertilizers), metal processing equipment, and catalysts used for hydrogenation; toxicity of edible oils and fats; and the effect of trace metals on the characteristics of finished products, such as color and taste.' ―Farhan⁽⁴⁾​

In hydrogenated oils, aluminum can be found in part per million concentrations:⁽⁴⁾

View attachment 7823

Now this isn't your ionic, one atom aluminum (Al³⁺); these are small micro‐ and nanometer‐sized particles which cannot be chelated by citrate, malate, nor silica, in the body. Some of these particles would be expected to be persorbed, as particles of similar size have been shown to do.⁽⁵⁾

3. Aluminum partitions around nerves because it has a high affinity for phosphate and the microtubule‐associated proteins are highly phosphorylated. This has been detected by a number of ways, and there is certainly no lack of evidence for this.⁽⁶⁾

View attachment 7824

I think it would be fair to say that aluminum has a peculiar affinity for nerves.

4. Aluminum actively crosslinks phosphorylated nerve proteins in vitro more than any other physiological ion. This helps to provide a mechanistic explanation, as it's well‐known to strongly bind phosphoryl groups. The phophoryl groups on proteins are usually bound to the amino aid tyrosine, but also to serine and threonine—basically to any hydroxy amino acid.

This affinity has been shown by gel electrophoresis. The aggregates shift in a gradient as they increase in size and density:⁽⁷⁾

View attachment 7825

Aluminum has been used by the hide tanning industry for this very reason.⁽⁸⁾

5. Aluminum‐crosslinked myelin proteins cause an inflammatory response, which is sometime called an 'autoimmune disease.' This is a misnomer, as the Greek prefix auto denotes that the body is attacking itself. This is only partly true, since the Al³⁺ ion is unnatural and responsible for changing the geometry of the phosphorylated myelin proteins. This is another case of faulty, irresponsible, and perhaps even deceptive semantics used to hide the fact of what's really going on.

Macrophages and killer T cells try to engulf the Al³⁺–protein complexes, and this is the so‐called 'autoimmunity.' Another deceptive, although correct, term is 'misfolded tau:'

'It has been hypothesized that misfolded tau protein could be a mediator of the inflammatory response in human tauopathies. Here we show that neurodegenerative lesions caused by human truncated tau promote inflammatory response manifested by upregulation of immune-molecules (CD11, CD18, CD4, CD45 and CD68) and morphological activation of microglial cells in a rat model of tauopathy. In parallel, the innate immune brain response promotes activation of MHC class II positive blood-borne leukocytes and their influx into the brain parenchyma.' ―Zilka⁽⁸⁾​

The criticism of this term is similar to the criticism made of the 'passive voice,' as the adjective 'misfolded' does not imply attribution. A more accurate description, written in a more active voice, would be a τ‐protein–Al³⁺ complex.

The misfoled tau τ‐protein–Al³⁺ complex attracts leukocytes, or immune cell macrophages which then attempt to engulf this tangle.

6. Nonhydrogenated coconut oil is completely safe because it has no aluminum. Millions of people can testify that neither coconuts, nor its oil, will produce neurodegeneration. And such an idea hasn't even a logical explanation.

[1] Covert, Lloyd W. "Nickel by the Raney Process as a Catalyst of Hydrogenation." Journal of the American Chemical Society (1932)​

[2]Nash, A. M. "Determination of ultratrace metals in hydrogenated vegetable oils and fats." Journal of the American Oil Chemists' Society (1983)​

[3] Anwar, Farooq. "Rapid determination of some trace metals in several oils and fats." Grasas y Aceites (2004)​

[4] Farhan, F. M. "Determination of traces of heavy metals in oils and fats by arc spectrography." Journal of the American Oil Chemists' Society (1976)​

[5] Volkheimer, G."The phenomenon of persorption." Digestion (1968)​

[6] Piccardo, P. "Histochemical and X-ray microanalytical localization of aluminum in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and parkinsonism-dementia of Guam." Acta neuropathologica (1988)​

[7] Scott, Clay W. "Aggregation of tau protein by aluminum." Brain research (1993)​

[8] Covington, Anthony D. "Modern tanning chemistry." Chemical Society Reviews 26.2 (1997): 111-126.​

[8] Zilka, Norber. "Human misfolded truncated tau protein promotes activation of microglia and leukocyte infiltration..." Journal of neuroimmunology (2009)​

[9] Perl, Daniel P. "Intraneuronal aluminum accumulation in amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and Parkinsonism-dementia of Guam." Science (1982)​

 

[Jamsey]

Thought I’d post Ray’s response to Travis’s claims

me:
Hi Ray,
I don't know if other people warned you about it but there's a concern of aluminium contamination with hydrogenated CO:

Coconut Oil Leads To Dementia?


And more information here:

Coconut Oil Leads To Dementia?

[I posted the two posts in the mail to make sure he would see them]

Ray:
Neurology. 1985 Feb;35(2):193-8.
Disappearance of high-incidence amyotrophic lateral sclerosis and parkinsonism-dementia on Guam.
Garruto RM, Yanagihara R, Gajdusek DC.
The high incidence rates of amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) and parkinsonism-dementia (PD) occurring among the Chamorros of Guam have declined to rates only slightly higher than those observed in the continental United States. This decline has occurred principally among males, especially those born after 1920 and living in areas where calcium and magnesium levels are low in soil and water. The male-to-female ratio among affected patients now approaches unity, compared with ratios of 2 to 1 for ALS and 3 to 1 for PD three decades ago. These changes are consistent with the hypothesis that the previously high incidence resulted from defects in mineral metabolism and secondary hyperparathyroidism, provoked by nutritional deficiencies of calcium and magnesium, with resultant deposition of calcium and aluminum in neurons.

J Occup Environ Med. 2014 May;56(5 Suppl):S73-9.
Is the Aluminum Hypothesis dead?
Lidsky TI.
The Aluminum Hypothesis, the idea that aluminum exposure is involved in the etiology of Alzheimer disease, dates back to a 1965 demonstration that aluminum causes neurofibrillary tangles in the brains of rabbits. Initially the focus of intensive research, the AluminumHypothesis has gradually been abandoned by most researchers. Yet, despite this current indifference, the Aluminum Hypothesis continues to attract the attention of a small group of scientists and aluminum continues to be viewed with concern by some of the public. This review article discusses reasons that mainstream science has largely abandoned the Aluminum Hypothesis and explores a possible reason for some in the general public continuing to view aluminum with mistrust.
Free PMC Article