I think potatoes are disgusting

[equipoise]

Potatoes are godlike, mashed, baked, whatever. Such a staple and never feel bad eating them. Can salt them to death aswell, they go amazing with butter, meat.

 

[equipoise]

Ye you experience it? Most guys are horny after bananas like me, I was eating them for almost year man

I don't eat them cause it's so hard sourcing real, nice bananas here. Most taste like plastic, and I won't pay Premium for Premium bananas since I'm not a big fan of bananas in general. I prefer to pay Premium for OJ which I digest nicely and it makes me feel like a million bucks.

But I remember Peat talking about bananas and pineapple as a source of serotonin.

 

[gaze]

Judging by present and past statements of the American Dietetic Association, I think some kind of institutional brain defect might account for their recommendations. Although the dietetic association now feebly acknowledges that sugars don't raise the blood sugar more quickly than starches do, they can't get away from their absurd old recommendations, which were never scientifically justified: “Eat more starches, such as bread, cereal, and starchy vegetables--6 servings a day or more. Start the day with cold (dry) cereal with nonfat/skim milk or a bagel with one teaspoon of jelly/jam. Put starch center stage--pasta with tomato sauce, baked potato with chili, rice and stir-fried beef and vegetables. Add cooked black beans, corn, or garbanzo beans (chickpeas) to salads or casseroles.”

I'm not the biggest fan of starch, in fact I rarely eat it for various reasons, but i still think that quote by peat comes off as a bit ignorant imo, although i know his comment is slightly tongue in cheek.

Ray belittles starch like it's some sort of food only meant for poverty, but there are certainly rational arguements for a starch based diet that make sense for the reccomendations.
for one thing no civilization has ever lived on fruit and animal products, simply impossible especially during winters (unless you go back before 10000 years ago where even dairy didn't exist). even the richest people in society through history who've had access to meats and dairy and fruit still eat starchy foods like bread and potatoes, they just don't eat only bread and potatoes. Ray commonly refers to tribes like the masai people as an example of living on milk and meat, but these are small nomadic tribes that live off the land, not millions of people that need to be fed

second, Ray pretty much shuns most fruit for various problems, so imagine instead they reccomended a banana, apple, and pineapple based diet? ray would still say they have a brain defect for reccomending a allergenic, high pectin, and serotonin based diet, theres no winning unless it's a list of 6 perfectly ripened tropical fruits (try feeding the world on that). and if it's not fruit, then starch is the only staple carb that you can use. and since ray doesn't like that, the only other option is using fat as the staple calorie source, but ray also says glucose metabolism is ideal so basically for him it's only OJ and lactose as the staple source of calories, or nothing else. i still think starch is better than fat and since OJ and milk arnt enough for most people, then the starch reccomendation makes sense

third, consuming enough fruit and protein to grow properly is almost impossible, especially for hard working people who need 4-5000 calories a day. a starch based diet with low fat proteins as staples is certainly not the worst diet in the world and billions of people across the world and through time have lived on it, yet ray acts like the people reccomending it are brian dead idiots. he acts like 6 servings of starch that are reccomended is some absurd amount, but that's only around 600-800 calories usually. not that unreasonable for most active healthy people imo

Ray claims that the grain industry is what basically ruined the reccomendations cause they bought and paid for it, yet he for some reason ignores the dairy and meat industries that also influence dietician reccomendations. It can go both ways. that's not to say starch doesn't have many problems, because it does. starch additives and baked cookies and undercooked starches have a lot of problems (i for one react badly to even well cooked ones but i have a bad health history), but i've never met a healthy person in my life who doesn't eat starch. most people would benefit by including some well boiled starches daily as a highly usable energy.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

They give me depression and an endotoxin storm. After 2 days of eating lots of potatoes, I started having suicidal thoughts.
Maybe they're a good food if you have great digestion.

 

[ursidae]

If you can get them purple sweet potatoes will taste different (incredible)

 

[mostlylurking]

You have true but the thing is that the problem with not eating vitamins rich foods like milk, eggs and potatoes is that you must compensate this with eating more of something other....What I want to say is that people that are not eating these foods or cant eat them have big disadvantage especially when hard times come. So I would be thinking why I dont want to eat them... Bananas are my number 1 if you tolerate them.

I don't think white potatoes are in the same class of vitamin rich foods as milk and eggs are. They are better than the processed "foods" though. However, regularly grown potatoes (not organic) are pretty toxic from agricultural chemicals used to grow them. I've read that commercial potato farmers won't eat their own commercial crop; they grow their own organic potatoes for their family's use. Organic white potatoes are pretty expensive for the amount of protein you get. I think eggs (and milk) are better sources for protein for the money.

Scrambled eggs with cooked (organic) potatoes and some picante sauce is a pretty tasty and economical dish. The potato helps to fill you up; the egg provides the protein.

I can't tolerate bananas, even the organic ones, even if they are cooked. They are a high serotonin food and they seem to have become a lot more toxic because of the modern farming methods used to grow them.

 

[mostlylurking]

I'm not the biggest fan of starch, in fact I rarely eat it for various reasons, but i still think that quote by peat comes off as a bit ignorant imo, although i know his comment is slightly tongue in cheek.

Ray is wise enough to know he can't save the world. He focuses on offering advice to people who are trying to keep healthy or regain their health. I don't think the comment was tongue in cheek. Ray sees no redeeming value in eating starch if you don't have to so you don't starve to death. Destitute people with no resources who subsist on starch don't last very long and are not able to sustain their brains at a high functioning level.

Ray belittles starch like it's some sort of food only meant for poverty, but there are certainly rational arguements for a starch based diet that make sense for the reccomendations.

Ray believes a starch based diet is only appropriate if nothing better is available.

for one thing no civilization has ever lived on fruit and animal products, simply impossible especially during winters (unless you go back before 10000 years ago where even dairy didn't exist). even the richest people in society through history who've had access to meats and dairy and fruit still eat starchy foods like bread and potatoes, they just don't eat only bread and potatoes. Ray commonly refers to tribes like the masai people as an example of living on milk and meat, but these are small nomadic tribes that live off the land, not millions of people that need to be fed

Destitute people resort to eating non nutritious "food" that is cheap or free. Dirt and tree leaves are eaten too by starving people.

second, Ray pretty much shuns most fruit for various problems, so imagine instead they reccomended a banana, apple, and pineapple based diet? ray would still say they have a brain defect for reccomending a allergenic, high pectin, and serotonin based diet, theres no winning unless it's a list of 6 perfectly ripened tropical fruits (try feeding the world on that). and if it's not fruit, then starch is the only staple carb that you can use. and since ray doesn't like that, the only other option is using fat as the staple calorie source, but ray also says glucose metabolism is ideal so basically for him it's only OJ and lactose as the staple source of calories, or nothing else. i still think starch is better than fat and since OJ and milk arnt enough for most people, then the starch reccomendation makes sense

Suit yourself.

third, consuming enough fruit and protein to grow properly is almost impossible, especially for hard working people who need 4-5000 calories a day. a starch based diet with low fat proteins as staples is certainly not the worst diet in the world and billions of people across the world and through time have lived on it, yet ray acts like the people reccomending it are brian dead idiots. he acts like 6 servings of starch that are reccomended is some absurd amount, but that's only around 600-800 calories usually. not that unreasonable for most active healthy people imo

You're right! Billions of people (with short life spans and low I.Q.s) around the world are living on a bare subsistence diet. Ray focuses on what makes you healthy so your big brain will work and you don't die prematurely. The government does not have such benevolent goals. You are free to choose whatever diet you want. You can follow the governmental guidelines or you can do your own research. On a long enough timeline we are all dead anyway.

Ray claims that the grain industry is what basically ruined the reccomendations cause they bought and paid for it, yet he for some reason ignores the dairy and meat industries that also influence dietician reccomendations. It can go both ways. that's not to say starch doesn't have many problems, because it does. starch additives and baked cookies and undercooked starches have a lot of problems (i for one react badly to even well cooked ones but i have a bad health history), but i've never met a healthy person in my life who doesn't eat starch. most people would benefit by including some well boiled starches daily as a highly usable energy.

I think that Monsanto (now Bayer) has more sway over government than the local dairy farmer. The U.S.A. is the "bread basket" for the world. Grains and soybeans are enormous export/income cash crops for the nation. This does not mean they are good for you to eat and will keep you healthy.

Starch triggers insulin. Insulin triggers the stress hormones. Insulin takes that glucose made from the starch and shuttles it into fat storage. If you are young with a high metabolic rate you can eat just about anything. When you get some age on you and your metabolic rate slows down, you are better off choosing nutrient dense food that does not trigger insulin.

 

[CDT]

Trying to eat potatoes gives me the "kids/obese woman eating broccoli" reaction, i.e. gagging as soon as a tiny morsel of potato disgraces my tongue. I usually experience indigestion afterwards, and then bad memories of my mother forcing me to devour these revolting cardboardesque lumps at dinner.
Funny thing is I think steamed (but still crisp) broccoli tastes nice enough, as long as I don't try to eat too much at once. It has a certain freshness about it.
Boiled is the worst, followed closely by baked (I suspect that floury potatoes might be better but I can't get them at all), but frying them in forbidden oils magically makes them palatable.

I see lots of posts here about potatoes being almost a wonder-food and it makes me wonder how many others are in my position.

Yea, you need to find a way to eat potatoes. Mash that up and toss it in butter.

 

[CDT]

If you boil them to death they are considered less harmful. But why would you want to do that? I eat them occasionally, maybe once every couple of months or so, but why would you want to do that on a regular basis? Why do you want to eat starch?

Dr. Peat has said that white potatoes do have good protein, which can be more safely used by juicing the potato, then allowing the starch to settle to the bottom, then cooking the liquid without the starch like you would cook scrambled eggs. Dr. Peat has also said that in Africa, where potatoes are a major food staple, they are a healthy choice and are protective against bowel cancer. To use them in this way, you need to eat something like 5 pounds each day.

well, what do YOU eat?

 

[mostlylurking]

well, what do YOU eat?

Mainly dairy, eggs, and gelatin. Liver and also oysters once a week. A LOT of cooked mushrooms. Lots of orange juice and also ripe oranges. Watermelon. Coffee with cream and sugar. Maple syrup & gelatin in the milk. I also eat on occasion: a half of a baked potato (organic, no skin), a little white rice, the gravy off the pot roast, a little chicken. I don't do well eating muscle meat anymore. It makes my heart race and keeps me awake at night.

 

[Uselis]

Ray is wise enough to know he can't save the world. He focuses on offering advice to people who are trying to keep healthy or regain their health. I don't think the comment was tongue in cheek. Ray sees no redeeming value in eating starch if you don't have to so you don't starve to death. Destitute people with no resources who subsist on starch don't last very long and are not able to sustain their brains at a high functioning level.

Ray believes a starch based diet is only appropriate if nothing better is available.

Destitute people resort to eating non nutritious "food" that is cheap or free. Dirt and tree leaves are eaten too by starving people.

Suit yourself.

You're right! Billions of people (with short life spans and low I.Q.s) around the world are living on a bare subsistence diet. Ray focuses on what makes you healthy so your big brain will work and you don't die prematurely. The government does not have such benevolent goals. You are free to choose whatever diet you want. You can follow the governmental guidelines or you can do your own research. On a long enough timeline we are all dead anyway.

I think that Monsanto (now Bayer) has more sway over government than the local dairy farmer. The U.S.A. is the "bread basket" for the world. Grains and soybeans are enormous export/income cash crops for the nation. This does not mean they are good for you to eat and will keep you healthy.

Starch triggers insulin. Insulin triggers the stress hormones. Insulin takes that glucose made from the starch and shuttles it into fat storage. If you are young with a high metabolic rate you can eat just about anything. When you get some age on you and your metabolic rate slows down, you are better off choosing nutrient dense food that does not trigger insuli

Mainly dairy, eggs, and gelatin. Liver and also oysters once a week. A LOT of cooked mushrooms. Lots of orange juice and also ripe oranges. Watermelon. Coffee with cream and sugar. Maple syrup & gelatin in the milk. I also eat on occasion: a half of a baked potato (organic, no skin), a little white rice, the gravy off the pot roast, a little chicken. I don't do well eating muscle meat anymore. It makes my heart race and keeps me awake at night.

Thanks for lengthy contribution. Care to share your activity levels? I personally can handle very little white rice but my job is very active so I am clueless how to avoid starch and still perform.

Thanks

 

[gaze]

You're right! Billions of people (with short life spans and low I.Q.s) around the world are living on a bare subsistence diet. Ray focuses on what makes you healthy so your big brain will work and you don't die prematurely. The government does not have such benevolent goals. You are free to choose whatever diet you want. You can follow the governmental guidelines or you can do your own research. On a long enough timeline we are all dead anyway.

"bare subsistence diet" will surely create a low life span and low IQ, but a diet with meat, milk, starch, fruit, is better for most people who want to grow a big brain as opposed to meat, milk, fruit. The government isn't telling people to eat only starch, they recommend protein and fruits and vegtebles as well.Starch simply has too many calories that are hard to get elsewhere unless you make concentrated efforts like we do. There's plently of long lived people on starch. in his newsletter on longevity and the rate of living, Ray mentions old tom parr who supposedly lived to 150, and his diet was bread and milk. Not to mention the plethora of blue zones, all of which eat starch. Most notable geniuses or circumstantial people throughout history have eaten starch. You don't hear about geniuses from the Masai tribe or Eskimos. Its from people who are in the midst of society, all of whom eat starch because not eating starch is an extremely fringe and rare thing that has not been done very often. Glucose and protein are needed for big brain, starch is the most concentrated form of glucose there is.

Starch triggers insulin. Insulin triggers the stress hormones. Insulin takes that glucose made from the starch and shuttles it into fat storage. If you are young with a high metabolic rate you can eat just about anything. When you get some age on you and your metabolic rate slows down, you are better off choosing nutrient dense food that does not trigger insulin.

Insulin itself does not trigger stress hormones. In fact, insulin is the number 1 most ANTI-cortisol and adrenaline hormone (maybe number 2 behind t3). in our body. It's extremely anabolic., which opposes cortisol and catabolic pathways. The problem is if it crashes your blood sugar, then the low blood sugar will therefore increase cortisol again. So eating starch to the point of a blood sugar crash will cause a problem with stress hormones, but that only happens to insulin resistant people who overeat, especially on fat, or if they have a gut dysbiosis (as many of us with health problems do). The average person in society eating starch is not having a blood sugar crash after every meal, because they're not insulin resistant. Certainly Old tom parr that ray likes to talk about wasn't having blood sugar crashes at 140 years old, not that I really believe that story. But ray for some reason does, so its fair game

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks for lengthy contribution. Care to share your activity levels? I personally can handle very little white rice but my job is very active so I am clueless how to avoid starch and still perform.

Thanks

I was doing fine for 5.5 years on this diet. I had the energy to complete my tasks and my brain functioned. I was able to work in the garden and clean out the hen house and clean the house. I am 71, female. Last summer I got sabotaged by three rounds of antibiotics for a urinary tract infection which destroyed my metabolic function by blocking my use of thiamine. link to article: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter I packed on 25 pounds of fat August-September. Because I couldn't convert food into energy, it all went into fat storage while I could barely walk across the room. I was in seriously bad shape through the fall, trapped in Warburg's cancer metabolism. I figured out it was a thiamine issue last November and have been working on recovery via mega dosing thiamine + more magnesium + a good B-complex + more orange juice. I cut my coffee intake in half (down to 1 serving of 12 oz). I cut out all white sugar (except the tablespoon in my coffee). I doubled my orange juice.

Because I have been successful in the past recovering from rheumatoid arthritis with my Ray Peat oriented diet, I did not change it, even though the mega dose thiamine experts demonize all starch, sugar, and fructose in particular. I take my thiamine with orange juice because of its potassium + its other benefits. I'm on the road to recovery, however, I do not know if this massive dose of thiamine will be required for the rest of my life to function or if I will recover and will be able to dial it back in 6-12 months.

I have been a fanatic about avoiding all PUFA for over 6 years. The PUFA destroys your energy level. It wipes out your thyroid function. Getting the PUFA out of your diet is hugely important. Addressing any thyroid issues is also key.

I think that Danny Roddy is a good source for inspiration. He functions on a high level of energy while following a Ray Peat oriented diet. The Danny Roddy Weblog and https://www.youtube.com/user/dannyroddy

 

[mostlylurking]

Starch simply has too many calories that are hard to get elsewhere unless you make concentrated efforts like we do.

Who's "we"? I don't rely on starch to get my calories. You want to follow the government's recommended diet for the great unwashed masses, suit yourself. It is obvious to me that I have more years of living behind me than you do. I can't "rely on starches for calories" my metabolic rate won't do well with it and my health will deteriorate in short order.

 

[hei]

If you can get them purple sweet potatoes will taste different (incredible)

Do they not taste like the orange ones? I only bought purple sweet potatoes once and they sprouted before I got to cook them (just a couple of days) so I just threw them away. Don't know why but I also don't really care for sweet potatoes, pumpkins or cooked carrots.

 

[ursidae]

Do they not taste like the orange ones? I only bought purple sweet potatoes once and they sprouted before I got to cook them (just a couple of days) so I just threw them away. Don't know why but I also don't really care for sweet potatoes, pumpkins or cooked carrots.

No I don’t like orange sweet potatoes either, taste like a disgusting over sweetened watery pumpkin. Purple sweet potatoes (Japanese) are more dry (like chestnuts), a lot more subtle and they taste delicious like some kind of dessert

 

[hei]

No I don’t like orange sweet potatoes either, taste like a disgusting over sweetened watery pumpkin. Purple sweet potatoes (Japanese) are more dry (like chestnuts), a lot more subtle and they taste delicious like some kind of dessert

Good to know. I don't see them very often but I'll keep it in mind.

 

[equipoise]

that quote by peat comes off as a bit ignorant imo, although i know his comment is slightly tongue in cheek. Ray belittles starch like it's some sort of food only meant for poverty, but there are certainly rational arguements for a starch based diet that make sense for the reccomendations. for one thing no civilization has ever lived on fruit and animal products, simply impossible especially during winters. even the richest people in society through history who've had access to meats and dairy and fruit still eat starchy foods like bread and potatoes, they just don't eat only bread and potatoes. second, Ray pretty much shuns most fruit for various problems, so imagine instead they reccomended a banana, apple, and pineapple based diet? ray would still say they have a brain defect for reccomending a allergenic, high pectin, and serotonin based diet, theres no winning unless it's a list of 6 perfectly ripened tropical fruits (try feeding the world on that). third, consuming enough fruit and protein to grow properly is almost impossible, especially for hard working people who need 4-5000 calories a day. a starch based diet with low fat meats is certainly not the worst diet in the world and billions of people across the world time have lived on it, yet ray acts like the people reccomending it are brian dead idiots. Ray claims that the grain industry is what basically ruined the reccomendations cause they bought and paid for it, yet he for some reason ignores the dairy and meat industries that also influence dietician reccomendations. It can go both ways.

Yeah I can't imagine going through this cold winter by only having OJ.

No I don’t like orange sweet potatoes either, taste like a disgusting over sweetened watery pumpkin. Purple sweet potatoes (Japanese) are more dry (like chestnuts), a lot more subtle and they taste delicious like some kind of dessert

Yes! They are sooo good, a trea. Mashed deep purple potatoes are amaxing

 

[CDT]

Mainly dairy, eggs, and gelatin. Liver and also oysters once a week. A LOT of cooked mushrooms. Lots of orange juice and also ripe oranges. Watermelon. Coffee with cream and sugar. Maple syrup & gelatin in the milk. I also eat on occasion: a half of a baked potato (organic, no skin), a little white rice, the gravy off the pot roast, a little chicken. I don't do well eating muscle meat anymore. It makes my heart race and keeps me awake at night.

Your diet is pretty good. I think the fact that you're eating liver and oysters so infrequently might mean that its best to just leave them out. I honestly think that seafood isn't safe anymore. I wouldn't go near oysters, they are basically ocean filters and are loaded with parasites and viruses, and mercury, and plastics. A lot of coastal engineers actually grow oysters on coastlines to filter out oil spills and toxic waste, so you can imagine the bioaccumulation effect from that. I'm not sure about seaweed though, as I do have seaweed as often as I can.

You're spot on with the mushrooms. That's a hidden gem of a food. It's got all the benefits of plant nutrition (or most), with the digestibility and lack of inhibitors and animal products. In fact, mycoprotein digests better than any other protein, and increases lean muscle mass more than any other source (even milk).

Might I suggest that you start venturing into fermented grains? Just toss oat groats or millet in a glass mason jar with a capful of Apple cider vinegar and let it sit for a few days (3 at the most for me). Then cook it as you normally would, add in your fruits (and milk probably, or sour cream), and its a damn good breakfast. After you 've got the hang of that, you can try to ferment your vegetables.
If you're really adventurous, you can try to ferment beans and starches, although I've been fermenting for two years and still have been a bit cautious with it.
I just read that you had a round of antibiotics for an infection. This is where the fermented foods will help you the most. I think you may be suffering from an imbalanced micro biome.

 

[TheSir]

Just toss oat groats or millet in a glass mason jar with a capful of Apple cider vinegar

Is it enough to simply add the vinegar or would you need to add some water too in order to help spread the vinegar all over the oats? Wouldn't the vinegar be quickly soaked up into a small amount of oats?