In A Low Fat Diet (<7%), Would Maintenance Create Fat Through De Novo Lipogenesis ?

[Such_Umami]

If I eat just carbs and protein, my maintenance is really high. About 4,000 calories. I've heard Ray Peat talk about some great benefits of creating your own fat through de novo lipogenesis and thought I'd try to get my fat that way.

If I am maintaining weight, would my glycogen stores fill up and then be turned into fat? The body needs a certain amount of fat but I was wondering if during a maintenance phase, am I getting it?

 

[Hans]

Yes your body would synthesize its own fat even on maintenance calories. Your body will synthesize fat even on a deficit if dietary fat is really low.

On a really low fat diet glycogen stores will be topped off and glucose oxidation will be increased significantly. Some fat synthesis will occur due to the rapid glucose oxidation, but also because your body needs some fat.

 

[berk]

Yes your body would synthesize its own fat even on maintenance calories. Your body will synthesize fat even on a deficit if dietary fat is really low.

On a really low fat diet glycogen stores will be topped off and glucose oxidation will be increased significantly. Some fat synthesis will occur due to the rapid glucose oxidation, but also because your body needs some fat.

you did say time ago you didnt bulk on low fat because Novo Lipogenesis was so high that you became fat quickly right?
So low fat is not a perfect lean-bulking tool and people much watch out when eaten above maintenance kcal?

What are the great benefits anyway?

I've heard Ray Peat talk about some great benefits of creating your own fat through de novo lipogenesis ?

what benefits? you heard on one of his podcasts? do you have a link?
i am curious now.

 

[Hans]

you did say time ago you didnt bulk on low fat because Novo Lipogenesis was so high that you became fat quickly right?
So low fat is not a perfect lean-bulking tool and people much watch out when eaten above maintenance kcal

I got fat because I was consuming too many calories and I think the milk was extra fattening for me in that quantities. I do better with about 1L per day, not 4 or more lol.

The benefit to DNL is that it creates saturated fat and an anti-inflammatory unsaturated fat (mead acid).
DNL also creates fatty acid esters of hydroxy– fatty acids which improve insulin sensitivity.

I don't think very low fat is the best approach long term, but it can work though.

 

[FrenchKiwi]

I got fat because I was consuming too many calories and I think the milk was extra fattening for me in that quantities. I do better with about 1L per day, not 4 or more lol.

The benefit to DNL is that it creates saturated fat and an anti-inflammatory unsaturated fat (mead acid).
DNL also creates fatty acid esters of hydroxy– fatty acids which improve insulin sensitivity.

I don't think very low fat is the best approach long term, but it can work though.

Would you mind outlining a typical day of eating and does your wife eat the same way? Of course I like to hear from women, being a woman myself. What works for men might be different?

 

[Such_Umami]

Something I find strange is that I can lose weight at eating 3,500 calories if I eat very low fat. However, I put on weight with 3,200 calories when I was getting about 20% of my calories from fat. Any ideas?

 

[FrenchKiwi]

Something I find strange is that I can lose weight at eating 3,500 calories if I eat very low fat. However, I put on weight with 3,200 calories when I was getting about 20% of my calories from fat. Any ideas?

Is that because dnl is not an easy process in humans and without fat in the high carb meal, extra carbs are burnt off as heat and there is not enough fat to be stored? Just a guess though

 

[baccheion]

I got fat because I was consuming too many calories and I think the milk was extra fattening for me in that quantities. I do better with about 1L per day, not 4 or more lol.

The benefit to DNL is that it creates saturated fat and an anti-inflammatory unsaturated fat (mead acid).
DNL also creates fatty acid esters of hydroxy– fatty acids which improve insulin sensitivity.

I don't think very low fat is the best approach long term, but it can work though.

This is annoying me. I read that DNL results in synthesis of only about 10 grams fat. Nay?

Something I find strange is that I can lose weight at eating 3,500 calories if I eat very low fat. However, I put on weight with 3,200 calories when I was getting about 20% of my calories from fat. Any ideas?

What form of carbs? I'd imagine fruits/fructose oppose gains, as they increase tyrosine hydroxylase activity. More TH = more dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. Glucose has the opposite effect, lowering TH activity.

 

[Hans]

This is annoying me. I read that DNL results in synthesis of only about 10 grams fat. Nay?

DNL is upregulated on a low fat diet and then its synthesis exceeds 10g.

What form of carbs? I'd imagine fruits/fructose oppose gains, as they increase tyrosine hydroxylase activity. More TH = more dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. Glucose has the opposite effect, lowering TH activity

A high carb diet increases dopamine, regardless if it's glucose or fructose.

 

[Zigzag]

I've read some studies about correlation between DNL and fatty liver. Is it a serious issue (I mean the risk factor, not fatty liver) ?

 

[Hans]

I've read some studies about correlation between DNL and fatty liver. Is it a serious issue (I mean the risk factor, not fatty liver) ?

Excess DNL can contribute yes (minimal), but the major contributors are inflammation, insulin resistance and excess lipolysis and damaged cellular function.

 

[Zigzag]

Do you have any valuable information about DNL in general? All I'm finding is "it's bad, should be inhibitted" type of papers.

 

[Hans]

Do you have any valuable information about DNL in general? All I'm finding is "it's bad, should be inhibitted" type of papers.

What do you mean with valuable? As in benefits of it?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I got fat because I was consuming too many calories and I think the milk was extra fattening for me in that quantities. I do better with about 1L per day, not 4 or more lol.

The benefit to DNL is that it creates saturated fat and an anti-inflammatory unsaturated fat (mead acid).
DNL also creates fatty acid esters of hydroxy– fatty acids which improve insulin sensitivity.

I don't think very low fat is the best approach long term, but it can work though.

There was a study showing that, in hypercaloric diets, the body can synthesize quite a lot of fat from carbs over time( something like 100+ grams of fat per day), wasn't there? The greatest benefit that I see from doing this is the absolute lack of PUFA in the fat that we synthesize from carbs. Getting, say, 100 grams of fat without any PUFA at all, just palmitic acid, oleic acid, mead acid etc., sounds really nice. But that would put more strain on the body, at least in my experience. Ingesting fat directly seems to have a more of an anti- stress effect on me.

 

[Zigzag]

What do you mean with valuable? As in benefits of it?

Yes

 

[Hans]

Yes

I discussed it in the 4th message of this thread.

 

[Hans]

There was a study showing that, in hypercaloric diets, the body can synthesize quite a lot of fat from carbs over time( something like 100+ grams of fat per day), wasn't there? The greatest benefit that I see from doing this is the absolute lack of PUFA in the fat that we synthesize from carbs. Getting, say, 100 grams of fat without any PUFA at all, just palmitic acid, oleic acid, mead acid etc., sounds really nice. But that would put more strain on the body, at least in my experience. Ingesting fat directly seems to have a more of an anti- stress effect on me.

Yes it depends on the size of the surplus and the duration of the surplus (days/weeks/months).

Yes I do think that some people, due to their ancestry might not be be very good at DNL so don't do well on a low fat diet like you're experiencing.

I also do better with a little more fat in my diet.

 

[Such_Umami]

Hans,

I am about 15% body fat at about 185lbs. If I were to eat maintenance with enough protein at low fat. Would I go down in bodyfat but up in muscle mass during this kind of protocol? Have you any idea what sort of percentage the body likes to goto when eating maintenance and getting your fat through DNL?

 

[Hans]

Hans,

I am about 15% body fat at about 185lbs. If I were to eat maintenance with enough protein at low fat. Would I go down in bodyfat but up in muscle mass during this kind of protocol? Have you any idea what sort of percentage the body likes to goto when eating maintenance and getting your fat through DNL?

Eating the right amount of protein will increase or maintain muscle mass, but it will be a minor increase in the absence of weight training.
If the carbs you're going to eat are going to irritate your gut or cause gut issues then the carbs/inflammation might contribute to insulin resistance and fat gain even if fat intake is low.

I think this is why most people benefit from a low carb diet, because they eliminate most if not all food that cause a negative reaction and this lowers inflammation and speeds up fat loss.

So even if you eat carbs, your cortisol might be higher than on a low carb diet if the carbs you're eating is causing you gut inflammation.

 

[Such_Umami]

I don't have too bad digestion and I train extremely hard (though I give myself a lot of recovery time).