Keto, sleep deprivation, stress hormones and anxiety relief

[Luked89]

I hear terms like social anxiety and generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not sure if that's what I have, but I'd say I've always felt like my mind tends towards negative thinking, self judgement, judging others. Generally when socializing I feel people don't like me, I judge myself, and always assume the worst.

There are a couple of fixes for this I've discovered

1. Sleep deprivation and/or a hangover.
2. Keto diet.

I little context on these

I've noticed when I get drunk and don't get a full night's sleep, I feel great the next day. Yes, I'll feel gross, nauseous and get that low level headache. But my outlook on life, and interactions with others are so great compared to my usual state that I'm happy regardless of the side effects.

I've experimented with sleep deprivation by literally just not sleeping, and it also does the job. Granted things start getting weird and maybe the cons start to outweigh the pros on this method but nonetheless, it works. I don't worry, or stress over things and talking to people just goes well. I feel good and people respond well to me. I looked into it at the time and supposedly there are studies showing sleep deprivation cures depression but with one drawback. It stops working when you sleep.

The next is keto.

Now this one a bit tricky. I'd done keto before. Bulletproof coffee, 1lb Ribeyes, eggs cheese etc etc. High calorie 3 meals a day with snacks. This helped me gain weight, but nothing for mental health.

My second time around I was a bit more educated on keto and started an intermittent fasting style keto diet. I ate from 5pm until about 8pm.

I consumed these foods
Salmon, buffalo mozzarella, mushrooms, olive oil, MCT oil, desiccated organs, some spices and herbs.

I was in somewhat of a bad place when I decided to start keto again. I stuck through the first 2 or 3 days as I was motivated to feel better. I was using keto urine strips at the time each morning. First few days no ketones. Or the third or fourth day I woke up with this INCREDIBLE feeling. It was like the sleep deprivation or hangover but without the side effects. I went to the bathroom and lo and behold the urine strips showed ketones. I had literally found peace. I wasn't afraid of death, nothing could bother me. No worries, no fear of the future, no social anxiety. It was such an amazing feeling. I was in a great mood and optimistic about the keto diet.

So I'm feeling great, but hit a road bump soon after the start. I decided to eat some eggs. They're keto right? So I ate some eggs and the whole thing collapsed. I was back in hell. Anxiety, stressed out, general feelings of dread. I thought "was it a fluke?" "Will it come back?" I knew if it was to come back It would be by eating what brought me there the first time. So I go back to eating the foods I mentioned, and it took a full week but thank God it worked. I was so happy. I ended up doing keto for 2 months. A couple of times I tried to eat eggs and every time, it had the same effect. So I realized eggs were one issue. At a much later date I did an everywell food sensitivity test and eggs were off the chart, as expected. I also felt chicken gave a similar effect but not as bad as eggs and lo and behold it was half the level of eggs on the test.

Ok so yes it all sounds great right. Keto cured my social anxiety and removed so much negativity from my mind. Well unfortunately there were some drawbacks.

1. Sex drive was kinda low. I could get it up, but wasn't really feeling the urge to go get some.

2. Pretty much from the start a hunger for carbs that was growing

3. Similar trajectory to the hunger was a cranky to irritable to outright angry state. Worsening as the days went on. This one was weird because I didn't think it was possible to feel so good and angry at the same time.

I remember one day I kind of ****88 around and ate a bunch of keto processed food, and smoked too much weed and went into a social situation and I felt like everyone didn't like me, and was having thoughts of so much negativity. It was interesting to see the contrast from that day to the days before, and the days after when I'd fixed the diet and cut down on the weed.

In the end, I had to stop keto. The hunger for carbs had gotten so severe. I was starving no matter how much fat I ate. There's been a couple of times I started again and felt the good stuff come back but I quit again right away. Hunger is powerful, and probably for a good reason.

Since then I've tried Paul saladino style animal based, gaps, and now peat style eating. Unfortunately non of these provide the effects from keto and IF.

Well if you've got this far I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I wrote all this to give as much context as possible, and any thoughts on anything I've said would be appreciated. But my main question is

TL;DR

If keto with IF, sleep deprivation and/or hangover seem to cure me of negative thinking and social anxiety, would this indicate maybe high levels of cortisol? Why is it that stress hormones feel so good on keto, but going through something traumatic or not eating well makes you feel so bad. Wouldn't there be cortisol involved there too?

 

[canadianboymike]

An interesting book called “Return to the Brain of Eden” talks about this in detail. Sleep deprivation, not eating hormone producing foods etc can turn on your right brain (creative side etc) as normally the left logical brain takes over our decisions and day to day. So people who didn’t sleep for several days had insane spiritual experiences that would take some people a lifetime to achieve.

All in all a great read and might give some extra insight on how to achieve this state with other means besides a night on the town and a case of beer!

 

[LastingJoy]

An interesting book called “Return to the Brain of Eden” talks about this in detail. Sleep deprivation, not eating hormone producing foods etc can turn on your right brain (creative side etc) as normally the left logical brain takes over our decisions and day to day. So people who didn’t sleep for several days had insane spiritual experiences that would take some people a lifetime to achieve.

All in all a great read and might give some extra insight on how to achieve this state with other means besides a night on the town and a case of beer!

Hi, what are the foods in this list of hormones producing foods?

 

[canadianboymike]

I can’t remember exactly a list. But it would be avoiding the animal based foods. It focused heavily on fruits…

I don’t subscribe to this really but I have tried this and it kind of works as intended. It causes feelings of joy and lightness but it also causes issues with lack of testosterone/sex drive and drive in general. I still feel like we need a balance of both but that can be different for everyone.

 

[Luked89]

I can’t remember exactly a list. But it would be avoiding the animal based foods. It focused heavily on fruits…

I don’t subscribe to this really but I have tried this and it kind of works as intended. It causes feelings of joy and lightness but it also causes issues with lack of testosterone/sex drive and drive in general. I still feel like we need a balance of both but that can be different for everyone.

I had similar experience with high fruit raw vegan diets. Experienced new levels of consciousness and felt clean, light and healthy. But sex drive was dead.

 

[canadianboymike]

I had similar experience with high fruit raw vegan diets. Experienced new levels of consciousness and felt clean, light and healthy. But sex drive was dead.

It’s unfortunate because overall the feeling is great except in the sack. Wondering if there’s a balance between the two. Going to try a fruit/meat heavier diet and see if that does it anywhere close.

 

[joaquin]

I hear terms like social anxiety and generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not sure if that's what I have, but I'd say I've always felt like my mind tends towards negative thinking, self judgement, judging others. Generally when socializing I feel people don't like me, I judge myself, and always assume the worst.

There are a couple of fixes for this I've discovered

1. Sleep deprivation and/or a hangover.
2. Keto diet.

I little context on these

I've noticed when I get drunk and don't get a full night's sleep, I feel great the next day. Yes, I'll feel gross, nauseous and get that low level headache. But my outlook on life, and interactions with others are so great compared to my usual state that I'm happy regardless of the side effects.

I've experimented with sleep deprivation by literally just not sleeping, and it also does the job. Granted things start getting weird and maybe the cons start to outweigh the pros on this method but nonetheless, it works. I don't worry, or stress over things and talking to people just goes well. I feel good and people respond well to me. I looked into it at the time and supposedly there are studies showing sleep deprivation cures depression but with one drawback. It stops working when you sleep.

The next is keto.

Now this one a bit tricky. I'd done keto before. Bulletproof coffee, 1lb Ribeyes, eggs cheese etc etc. High calorie 3 meals a day with snacks. This helped me gain weight, but nothing for mental health.

My second time around I was a bit more educated on keto and started an intermittent fasting style keto diet. I ate from 5pm until about 8pm.

I consumed these foods
Salmon, buffalo mozzarella, mushrooms, olive oil, MCT oil, desiccated organs, some spices and herbs.

I was in somewhat of a bad place when I decided to start keto again. I stuck through the first 2 or 3 days as I was motivated to feel better. I was using keto urine strips at the time each morning. First few days no ketones. Or the third or fourth day I woke up with this INCREDIBLE feeling. It was like the sleep deprivation or hangover but without the side effects. I went to the bathroom and lo and behold the urine strips showed ketones. I had literally found peace. I wasn't afraid of death, nothing could bother me. No worries, no fear of the future, no social anxiety. It was such an amazing feeling. I was in a great mood and optimistic about the keto diet.

So I'm feeling great, but hit a road bump soon after the start. I decided to eat some eggs. They're keto right? So I ate some eggs and the whole thing collapsed. I was back in hell. Anxiety, stressed out, general feelings of dread. I thought "was it a fluke?" "Will it come back?" I knew if it was to come back It would be by eating what brought me there the first time. So I go back to eating the foods I mentioned, and it took a full week but thank God it worked. I was so happy. I ended up doing keto for 2 months. A couple of times I tried to eat eggs and every time, it had the same effect. So I realized eggs were one issue. At a much later date I did an everywell food sensitivity test and eggs were off the chart, as expected. I also felt chicken gave a similar effect but not as bad as eggs and lo and behold it was half the level of eggs on the test.

Ok so yes it all sounds great right. Keto cured my social anxiety and removed so much negativity from my mind. Well unfortunately there were some drawbacks.

1. Sex drive was kinda low. I could get it up, but wasn't really feeling the urge to go get some.

2. Pretty much from the start a hunger for carbs that was growing

3. Similar trajectory to the hunger was a cranky to irritable to outright angry state. Worsening as the days went on. This one was weird because I didn't think it was possible to feel so good and angry at the same time.

I remember one day I kind of ****88 around and ate a bunch of keto processed food, and smoked too much weed and went into a social situation and I felt like everyone didn't like me, and was having thoughts of so much negativity. It was interesting to see the contrast from that day to the days before, and the days after when I'd fixed the diet and cut down on the weed.

In the end, I had to stop keto. The hunger for carbs had gotten so severe. I was starving no matter how much fat I ate. There's been a couple of times I started again and felt the good stuff come back but I quit again right away. Hunger is powerful, and probably for a good reason.

Since then I've tried Paul saladino style animal based, gaps, and now peat style eating. Unfortunately non of these provide the effects from keto and IF.

Well if you've got this far I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I wrote all this to give as much context as possible, and any thoughts on anything I've said would be appreciated. But my main question is

TL;DR

If keto with IF, sleep deprivation and/or hangover seem to cure me of negative thinking and social anxiety, would this indicate maybe high levels of cortisol? Why is it that stress hormones feel so good on keto, but going through something traumatic or not eating well makes you feel so bad. Wouldn't there be cortisol involved there too?

I've read (and experienced as well) that keto/IF upregulates GABA activity. This may have some effect on what you're describing.
What works for me is that I ketovore/IF for a while, then switch to higher carbs for a while, back and forth. I'd like to do high carb all the time but my sleep is actually better on ketovore/IF.

 

[joaquin]

@Luked89 also, eggs. Highly stressful food to consume. Not sure why are the carni gurus push eggs so much.

 

[cs3000]

I hear terms like social anxiety and generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not sure if that's what I have, but I'd say I've always felt like my mind tends towards negative thinking, self judgement, judging others. Generally when socializing I feel people don't like me, I judge myself, and always assume the worst.

There are a couple of fixes for this I've discovered

1. Sleep deprivation and/or a hangover.
2. Keto diet.

TL;DR

If keto with IF, sleep deprivation and/or hangover seem to cure me of negative thinking and social anxiety, would this indicate maybe high levels of cortisol? Why is it that stress hormones feel so good on keto, but going through something traumatic or not eating well makes you feel so bad. Wouldn't there be cortisol involved there too?

1 idea,
do / did you often have mad vivid dreaming?
effects could be the initial impact on sleep architecture & morning cortisol. sleep architecture plays a major role in health
In depression REM sleep goes through the roof. rem onset latency gets quicker. so sleep is overactive and non restorative. you dont get as much of the cleansing phase of slow wave sleep either
(you mentioned smoking weed also which can further REM increase when not smoked before bed)

With keto at first there's a REM sleep reduction and deep sleep increase
So initially could help in fixing the sleep skew (like some antidepressants do)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18681982/

the VLC diet over the short-term promotes increases in the percentage of SWS (deep sleep stage 4) and a reduction in the percentage of REM sleep ('dreaming' sleep) compared to the control mixed diet

& cortisol is supposed to rise into wakeup. but chronic stress = lower morning cortisol

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6598644_Miller_GE_Chen_E_Zhou_ES_If_it_goes_up_must_it_comd_down_Chronic_stress_and_thet_hypothalamic-puitary-adrenocortical_axis_in_humans_Psychol_Bull_113_25-45

The results indicate that exposure to chronic stress is associated with significantly lower concentrations of
morning cortisol (d ⫽⫺0.08), and more pronounced suppression of cortisol following dexamethasone challenge (d ⫽⫺0.23). It is
also associated with greater concentrations of afternoon/evening cortisol (d ⫽ 0.18), a flatter diurnal rhythm (d ⫽ 0.39), and a higher daily volume of cortisol output.
collectively, these findings suggest that chronic stress is accompanied by a dysregulated pattern of hormone secretion, with lower than normal
morning output but higher than expected secretion across the rest of the day.

cortisol goes up on keto at least for initial period ,
can return to baseline but then cortisol levels become more reactive to stressors (could tie into the irritability you mentioned)

so at least initially the rem skew could be alleviated, and increase in morning cortsiol could be making up for typically low morning level.

problem is the effects might not last The Influence of Ketone Bodies on Circadian Processes Regarding Appetite, Sleep and Hormone Release: A Systematic Review of the Literature
longer term it increases rem sleep. but i dont know about rem latency onset, which probably plays the bigger role in mood disorder
rem latency in 1 week (no placebo group but) Effects of a low carbohydrate isoenergetic diet on sleep behavior and pulmonary functions in healthy female adult humans - PubMed
& also shifts towards going hypothyroid with less T3 hormone from the lack of carbs

 

[redsun]

I hear terms like social anxiety and generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not sure if that's what I have, but I'd say I've always felt like my mind tends towards negative thinking, self judgement, judging others. Generally when socializing I feel people don't like me, I judge myself, and always assume the worst.

There are a couple of fixes for this I've discovered

1. Sleep deprivation and/or a hangover.
2. Keto diet.

I little context on these

I've noticed when I get drunk and don't get a full night's sleep, I feel great the next day. Yes, I'll feel gross, nauseous and get that low level headache. But my outlook on life, and interactions with others are so great compared to my usual state that I'm happy regardless of the side effects.

I've experimented with sleep deprivation by literally just not sleeping, and it also does the job. Granted things start getting weird and maybe the cons start to outweigh the pros on this method but nonetheless, it works. I don't worry, or stress over things and talking to people just goes well. I feel good and people respond well to me. I looked into it at the time and supposedly there are studies showing sleep deprivation cures depression but with one drawback. It stops working when you sleep.

The next is keto.

Now this one a bit tricky. I'd done keto before. Bulletproof coffee, 1lb Ribeyes, eggs cheese etc etc. High calorie 3 meals a day with snacks. This helped me gain weight, but nothing for mental health.

My second time around I was a bit more educated on keto and started an intermittent fasting style keto diet. I ate from 5pm until about 8pm.

I consumed these foods
Salmon, buffalo mozzarella, mushrooms, olive oil, MCT oil, desiccated organs, some spices and herbs.

I was in somewhat of a bad place when I decided to start keto again. I stuck through the first 2 or 3 days as I was motivated to feel better. I was using keto urine strips at the time each morning. First few days no ketones. Or the third or fourth day I woke up with this INCREDIBLE feeling. It was like the sleep deprivation or hangover but without the side effects. I went to the bathroom and lo and behold the urine strips showed ketones. I had literally found peace. I wasn't afraid of death, nothing could bother me. No worries, no fear of the future, no social anxiety. It was such an amazing feeling. I was in a great mood and optimistic about the keto diet.

So I'm feeling great, but hit a road bump soon after the start. I decided to eat some eggs. They're keto right? So I ate some eggs and the whole thing collapsed. I was back in hell. Anxiety, stressed out, general feelings of dread. I thought "was it a fluke?" "Will it come back?" I knew if it was to come back It would be by eating what brought me there the first time. So I go back to eating the foods I mentioned, and it took a full week but thank God it worked. I was so happy. I ended up doing keto for 2 months. A couple of times I tried to eat eggs and every time, it had the same effect. So I realized eggs were one issue. At a much later date I did an everywell food sensitivity test and eggs were off the chart, as expected. I also felt chicken gave a similar effect but not as bad as eggs and lo and behold it was half the level of eggs on the test.

Ok so yes it all sounds great right. Keto cured my social anxiety and removed so much negativity from my mind. Well unfortunately there were some drawbacks.

1. Sex drive was kinda low. I could get it up, but wasn't really feeling the urge to go get some.

2. Pretty much from the start a hunger for carbs that was growing

3. Similar trajectory to the hunger was a cranky to irritable to outright angry state. Worsening as the days went on. This one was weird because I didn't think it was possible to feel so good and angry at the same time.

I remember one day I kind of ****88 around and ate a bunch of keto processed food, and smoked too much weed and went into a social situation and I felt like everyone didn't like me, and was having thoughts of so much negativity. It was interesting to see the contrast from that day to the days before, and the days after when I'd fixed the diet and cut down on the weed.

In the end, I had to stop keto. The hunger for carbs had gotten so severe. I was starving no matter how much fat I ate. There's been a couple of times I started again and felt the good stuff come back but I quit again right away. Hunger is powerful, and probably for a good reason.

Since then I've tried Paul saladino style animal based, gaps, and now peat style eating. Unfortunately non of these provide the effects from keto and IF.

Well if you've got this far I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I wrote all this to give as much context as possible, and any thoughts on anything I've said would be appreciated. But my main question is

TL;DR

If keto with IF, sleep deprivation and/or hangover seem to cure me of negative thinking and social anxiety, would this indicate maybe high levels of cortisol? Why is it that stress hormones feel so good on keto, but going through something traumatic or not eating well makes you feel so bad. Wouldn't there be cortisol involved there too?

This doesn't look like anxiety, this is probably just a tendency for negative ruminations.

A good diet alone cannot fix long-term negative thought patterns. Part of it stems from personal issues not being resolved, and lack of self-acceptance. When you sleep deprive yourself, brain activity will decline dramatically. You will not be able to think much and will acutely have less self-awareness due to adenosine build up that was not cleared out the night before.

You will also have less energy to guard yourself (some people consciously or unconsciously guard themselves which negatively affects social interaction). The other thing is sleep deprivation causes a spike in catecholamines which can have a mood uplifting effect (until you sleep of course and they drop back down). This spike can make you feel like good.

Theres more to it but this is the main idea. Sleep deprivation acutely cause catecholamine spike which can make you feel better and reduces self-awareness and ability to ruminate and worry because of adenosine inhibiting brain function. In the end sleep deprivation is bad for you and its a temp fix.

Just because good diet doesn't fix it doesnt mean you shouldn't eat well. It can definitely help make it easier. Keto generally means eating more animal products which is good. You should be eating plenty of animal products like meat, eggs, dairy, seafood, as they are very nutrient dense. I would also recommend an ounce of liverwurst a few times a week. The vitamin A in liverwurst specifically has anti-glutamate effects and can improve hormonal health.

Keto is not preferable due to lack of carbs and restrictive diets in general are not permanent answers. Choose lower fat animal products and get plenty of carbs from starches and fruit like rice, potatoes, pasta, etc. This way you can get the important nutrients present in animal foods but also get carbs for optimal thyroid function. Diets heavily restricting certain macros or food groups tend to cause problems sooner or later.

 

[joaquin]

Keto is not preferable due to lack of carbs and restrictive diets in general are not permanent answers. Choose lower fat animal products and get plenty of carbs from starches and fruit like rice, potatoes, pasta, etc. This way you can get the important nutrients present in animal foods but also get carbs for optimal thyroid function. Diets heavily restricting certain macros or food groups tend to cause problems sooner or later.

All diets are restrictive. the ray peat protocol (forgot there is no ray peat diet), restricts pufas among other things..

 

[Momma]

Keto generally means eating more animal products which is good.

Unless 1) he has a hard time digesting them and 2) it keeps him with erratic or unstable blood sugar.
His insomnia could be related easily to those two points; and or he is simply not eating enough.

 

[jet9]

I hear terms like social anxiety and generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not sure if that's what I have, but I'd say I've always felt like my mind tends towards negative thinking, self judgement, judging others. Generally when socializing I feel people don't like me, I judge myself, and always assume the worst.

There are a couple of fixes for this I've discovered

1. Sleep deprivation and/or a hangover.
2. Keto diet.

I little context on these

I've noticed when I get drunk and don't get a full night's sleep, I feel great the next day. Yes, I'll feel gross, nauseous and get that low level headache. But my outlook on life, and interactions with others are so great compared to my usual state that I'm happy regardless of the side effects.

I've experimented with sleep deprivation by literally just not sleeping, and it also does the job. Granted things start getting weird and maybe the cons start to outweigh the pros on this method but nonetheless, it works. I don't worry, or stress over things and talking to people just goes well. I feel good and people respond well to me. I looked into it at the time and supposedly there are studies showing sleep deprivation cures depression but with one drawback. It stops working when you sleep.

The next is keto.

Now this one a bit tricky. I'd done keto before. Bulletproof coffee, 1lb Ribeyes, eggs cheese etc etc. High calorie 3 meals a day with snacks. This helped me gain weight, but nothing for mental health.

My second time around I was a bit more educated on keto and started an intermittent fasting style keto diet. I ate from 5pm until about 8pm.

I consumed these foods
Salmon, buffalo mozzarella, mushrooms, olive oil, MCT oil, desiccated organs, some spices and herbs.

I was in somewhat of a bad place when I decided to start keto again. I stuck through the first 2 or 3 days as I was motivated to feel better. I was using keto urine strips at the time each morning. First few days no ketones. Or the third or fourth day I woke up with this INCREDIBLE feeling. It was like the sleep deprivation or hangover but without the side effects. I went to the bathroom and lo and behold the urine strips showed ketones. I had literally found peace. I wasn't afraid of death, nothing could bother me. No worries, no fear of the future, no social anxiety. It was such an amazing feeling. I was in a great mood and optimistic about the keto diet.

So I'm feeling great, but hit a road bump soon after the start. I decided to eat some eggs. They're keto right? So I ate some eggs and the whole thing collapsed. I was back in hell. Anxiety, stressed out, general feelings of dread. I thought "was it a fluke?" "Will it come back?" I knew if it was to come back It would be by eating what brought me there the first time. So I go back to eating the foods I mentioned, and it took a full week but thank God it worked. I was so happy. I ended up doing keto for 2 months. A couple of times I tried to eat eggs and every time, it had the same effect. So I realized eggs were one issue. At a much later date I did an everywell food sensitivity test and eggs were off the chart, as expected. I also felt chicken gave a similar effect but not as bad as eggs and lo and behold it was half the level of eggs on the test.

Ok so yes it all sounds great right. Keto cured my social anxiety and removed so much negativity from my mind. Well unfortunately there were some drawbacks.

1. Sex drive was kinda low. I could get it up, but wasn't really feeling the urge to go get some.

2. Pretty much from the start a hunger for carbs that was growing

3. Similar trajectory to the hunger was a cranky to irritable to outright angry state. Worsening as the days went on. This one was weird because I didn't think it was possible to feel so good and angry at the same time.

I remember one day I kind of ****88 around and ate a bunch of keto processed food, and smoked too much weed and went into a social situation and I felt like everyone didn't like me, and was having thoughts of so much negativity. It was interesting to see the contrast from that day to the days before, and the days after when I'd fixed the diet and cut down on the weed.

In the end, I had to stop keto. The hunger for carbs had gotten so severe. I was starving no matter how much fat I ate. There's been a couple of times I started again and felt the good stuff come back but I quit again right away. Hunger is powerful, and probably for a good reason.

Since then I've tried Paul saladino style animal based, gaps, and now peat style eating. Unfortunately non of these provide the effects from keto and IF.

Well if you've got this far I appreciate you taking the time to read my story. I wrote all this to give as much context as possible, and any thoughts on anything I've said would be appreciated. But my main question is

TL;DR

If keto with IF, sleep deprivation and/or hangover seem to cure me of negative thinking and social anxiety, would this indicate maybe high levels of cortisol? Why is it that stress hormones feel so good on keto, but going through something traumatic or not eating well makes you feel so bad. Wouldn't there be cortisol involved there too?

Maybe try Mediterranean keto (olive oil, avocado, etc). It's not peat friendly but as compared to sat fat heavy keto (meat, eggs, etc) you should have more ketones.