Letter to a young vegetarian...

[BingDing]

Hi all,

My god daughter is 25 and has been a vegetarian for about 5 years, she is also lactose intolerant and uses soy milk. I am proud of her for living up to her ethical decisions but feel I should say something, especially about the soy. And I want to steer her toward Peat, of course.

I've collected a few quotes from RP but I don't think they're especially enlightening as a first introduction. I was hoping someone on the forum might know of references (not necessarily RP) that would be informative and accurate.

Also, it's been a long time since I was young, and I was never a young woman. I'm sure she will read what I have to say and check out any links but I'm a little worried that my perspective won't mean much to her and she'll blow it off. Have any of the women here ever written to their daughters or granddaughters about vegetarianism? Can anyone help me gain a maternalistic point of view? I know I can be a little preachy, which I want to avoid.

Thanks for any help.

 

[frustrated]

You will never convince anyone to change their mind about nutrition unless you can debate them (effectively and compassionately) on the spot. Or unless you're someone they want to emulate.

 

[Mittir]

Ray Peat recommendations are very close to vegetarian diet composed of dairy and fruits. But vegan diet is very problematic. Is she ok with eating eggs and milk? Would she drink milk if she was not lactose intolerant? There are tons of so called scientific evidence to support health benefits of soy. It is going to be hard to convince someone to give up soy. Only thing that is proven
without controversy is that soy is Goitrogen . You can give her any article of RP or any other source on basic functions of thyroid. Most convincing information is that thyroid controls metabolism and soy blocks thyroid. The danger of omega 6 oil is widely accepted now. There are lots of studies that shows dairy consumptions helps with weight loss. Can she digest cheese? old cheese are free of lactose. You can easily convince her that fruits are way healthier than grains and vegetable. Unless she has some serious health problems it is not easy to convince someone to completely change their diet. I would suggest a gradual introduction.

 

[HDD]

I am going to purchase these books by Ray Peat for my daughters:

"Nutrition for Women"
and
"From PMS to menopause: Female hormones in context"

I also plan on writing a letter about my diet and health and what I have learned.

 

[Beebop]

RP's article on milk myths might help.

You could describe how the japanese eat soya more safely because they ferment it and this removes the goitrogenic nature of soya. Soya milk is unfermented.

Then maybe show her the benefits of coconut fat and coconut water as alternatives to soya. Make her a coconut smoothie?

I think convincing someone not to be a vegetarian is potentially a futile task, but making better choices as a vegetarian would be possible. I only gave up vegetarianism when I had health problems.

Good luck!

 

[4peatssake]

Hi all,

My god daughter is 25 and has been a vegetarian for about 5 years, she is also lactose intolerant and uses soy milk. I am proud of her for living up to her ethical decisions but feel I should say something, especially about the soy. And I want to steer her toward Peat, of course.

I've collected a few quotes from RP but I don't think they're especially enlightening as a first introduction. I was hoping someone on the forum might know of references (not necessarily RP) that would be informative and accurate.

Also, it's been a long time since I was young, and I was never a young woman. I'm sure she will read what I have to say and check out any links but I'm a little worried that my perspective won't mean much to her and she'll blow it off. Have any of the women here ever written to their daughters or granddaughters about vegetarianism? Can anyone help me gain a maternalistic point of view? I know I can be a little preachy, which I want to avoid.

Thanks for any help.

I've been pondering this since you first posted and here's just a few thoughts.

This is a tough row to hoe as you know.

Here are my views.

First and foremost is honoring her free will. She is an adult and has the right to choose how to live and what to eat. When we start telling people rather than simply sharing with them, we lose them very quickly, their minds close and they become resistant. And rightly so, for we should never interfere in anyone's right to choose for themselves. It's very difficult to approach someone with "advice" when it is unsolicited and in most cases, I believe we should leave well enough alone.

That said, we can share our experience and what we have learned, provided that person is open to us sharing with them. It is important to not have an agenda nor be attached to an outcome.

I think if it were me, I would begin by congratulating her on her desire to be healthy and for making choices to live an ethical way of life. Talk first about what is great and how proud you are of her. Make sure to keep your language upbeat and inclusive, rather than preachy and God forbid, authoritarian. I understand only too well how preachy is very baaaaaaad. And there is tremendous irony to engaging in being an authority, or coming across as self righteous when one consider themselves a student of Ray Peat!

I think we all must guard again this as we strive to help others.

(BTW, just to be perfectly clear, all that I am saying is not personal to anyone and certainly not to you BingDing. If anything, I need to be sure I apply these principles to myself - especially with my own children. Just yesterday, I made a remark to my husband and watched the doors close very quickly! Ah well, live and learn. )

Once you've talked about the good stuff, you can then perhaps shift into a discussion about your interests in health and how that has evolved. Focus on the mistakes that you have made and how you learned from them.

Is she aware of your health issues and how you have or are resolving them? If so, then this is what you can build upon. If you create harmony and draw similarities, you have more of a chance of keeping her mind open. You can tell her that it makes you very happy to see that she is interested in her health and well being as you've come to realize how important your health is - and how important it is to start taking care of it while you are young.

And rather than bringing forward "her" errors in thinking (about soy or anything else), focus first on your personal experiences in discovering through your life experience and research that much of what you held to be true about nutrition and various fields of science has turned out to be incorrect.

This then opens the door for you to provide evidence for this. But still keep it general at first and not specific to soy or vegetarianism. Use Ray's work - show where he has proven that we have been lied to and that disease is big business etc. Go slow at first, but be sure to make points that will get her attention. I haven't looked up specific quotes you can use - but there are many. If you are able to clearly demonstrate that pretty much all of what she's been "told" is wrong, that will start things moving. But she has to get there herself - be convinced herself that what she's been told, read or come to believe is incorrect. That's the quantum leap.

Once you have brought forward evidence to back up your experience and what you have learned, you can begin to perhaps address some specifics - like the dangers of soy and vegetarianism.

Something like...."As I've done my own research and addressed my health issues, I've also discovered there are significant health risks associated with consuming soy and when I learned this I felt it important to share this information with you." Then cite some good resources.

"I've also discovered that it is more difficult - although certainly not impossible - for vegetarians to get all the nutrients they require to stay healthy. I wanted to also share this information with you as I know how important good health is to you."

For women "stuff," perhaps mention that you've learned a lot about women's health issues from your study of Ray Peat as his expertise is in the area of women's health. You can mention too that you've learned a lot here on the forum and maybe she'll come take look at what's going on here.

You can end perhaps by expressing how fortunate you feel having a niece who is interested in health and nutrition and that you value her knowledge and experience and hope to continue sharing together what you are learning...Something like that.

Anyway, that is just some food for thought on a Tuesday morning.

Take what fits and leave the rest!!

 

[BingDing]

Thanks all, you've given me a lot to think about. Apologies for the tardy acknowledgment, my Ipad ate my post and I was too pissed to go back to it right away.

 

[4peatssake]

Thanks all, you've given me a lot to think about. Apologies for the tardy acknowledgment, my Ipad ate my post and I was too pissed to go back to it right away.

Good luck BD - hope it goes well!

 

[Beebop]

One other thought, it strikes me that the most important part of the animal to eat would be the gelatine.
I've 'persuaded' a vegetarian - (who admittedly eats fish already), to eat gelatine by giving them food (ice cream) with gelatine in it. I told them about the health benefits of gelatine, and told them what they were eating (I would never lie!). Needless to say this 'strategy' won't work for everyone!

Often, people enjoy being taken care of by being fed!

I mean you don't need to persuade her to eat muscle meat, wouldn't you say? :)

 

[ddjd]

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