Lewy Body dementia - 'that smell'

[Kaur Singh]

Unpleasant and pungent...

Inherited metabolic disorders are known to come with smells
Schizophrenia has its own distinct smell - for a while back in the days, it was thought to be a metabolic disorder because of this.
Metabolites in excess that the body cannot excrete through normal means, because they build up too quickly, too high etc.
Cancer also produces a smell that dogs can detect before it is detected through blood work.
True story: there's hospital that trains dogs to detect cancer.
Diabetics can smells of ketones (more alcoholic-like in nature, the smell, it can dissipate faster, doesn't stick around)
Old school doctors, before the advent of evidence-based medicine and blood tests
used smell as one aspect of figuring things out
etc

by pungent - do you mean acrid?

I've had a number of smells exuding through my skin and also with sweat.
One of them was acrid - sour, pungent, sticky, oily. This was whenever my body switched to anaerobic energy production,
something off in my fatty acid metabolism.
Another one, that was trickier in that I couldn't smell it most of the time but those around me could.
Or when I would leave my room, and then come back in, it would hit me.
It started by being a night smell only,
progressed to a day smell, as my metabolism become more and more impaired.
Unpleasant - it sucked the life out of the room
There were more - these two remind me of how you described your husband's smells

There is also a smell that comes from apocrine glands: stress sweat.

It all got better, as I worked on my metabolism,
and as I reduced stresses.
Working at restoring oxidative phosphorylation and mitochondria,
shifting away from burning fatty acids as main source of energy, from catabolic states, etc
All the things in Peat's framework come to bear - thyroid included

The acrid one started making a reappearance
I upped my carbs a bit, as I was hungry for them, and it went away

I had the thought that my sweat could be analyzed, and those substances figured out and where things were going wrong
It would have satisfied my curiosity
It was not necessary to get better
- sticking to the bigger picture and underpinning principles got me there

Tracking his temperature and heart rate throughout the day can be a good place to start

 

[Blossom]

Thiamine helps to lower serotonin in the brain. Thiamine also helps some dementias.

Effect of thiamine deficiency on brain serotonin turnover - PubMed

Serotonin turnover has been investigated in regional brain areas of rats made thiamine deficient by pyrithiamine (PT). Following intracisternal injection of [14C]5-hydroxytryptamine ([14C]5-HT), a marked increase in the accumulation of [14C]5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid ([14C]5-HIAA) was found in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Vitamin B1 (thiamine) and dementia - PubMed

The earliest and perhaps best example of an interaction between nutrition and dementia is related to thiamine (vitamin B1). Throughout the last century, research showed that thiamine deficiency is associated with neurological problems, including cognitive deficits and encephalopathy. Multiple...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dementia Factsheet

All types of dementia are progressive, which means that the functioning of the brain will change over time. However, each type of dementia affects everyone differently and with the right support, i…

lewybodydementia.home.blog

"Researchers don’t yet have a full understanding of why Lewy bodies appear, but DLB is linked to low levels of important chemicals (mainly acetylcholine and dopamine) that carry messages between nerve cells, causing a loss of connections between nerve cells."

Thiamine is required to make acetylcholine. Acetylcholine: How and Why to Optimize the Synthesis of this Vital Neurotransmitter
"Particularly noteworthy is the role that thiamine plays in ACh production. "The role of thiamine as a crucial coenzyme in neuronal metabolism of carbohydrates and neurotransmitters, especially acetylcholine, has been well elucidated." (Hirsch, 2011) The administration of benfotiamine, a form of thiamine, alone has been shown to reverse the symptoms of Alzheimer's disease, which has been linked to low ACh levels. (Pan, 2016)"

Thiamine to the rescue again!

 

[Lizb]

Thiamine to the rescue again!

...and he must be well fed to cope with taking it I believe? More milk shakes....

 

[supercoolguy]

The Stink continues

 

[mostlylurking]

...and he must be well fed to cope with taking it I believe? More milk shakes....

He'll need some magnesium (not the citrate kind) plus it's a good idea to give him a good quality B-complex as b vitamins tend to interrelate.

 

[Hayley]

Unpleasant and pungent...

Inherited metabolic disorders are known to come with smells
Schizophrenia has its own distinct smell - for a while back in the days, it was thought to be a metabolic disorder because of this.
Metabolites in excess that the body cannot excrete through normal means, because they build up too quickly, too high etc.
Cancer also produces a smell that dogs can detect before it is detected through blood work.
True story: there's hospital that trains dogs to detect cancer.
Diabetics can smells of ketones (more alcoholic-like in nature, the smell, it can dissipate faster, doesn't stick around)
Old school doctors, before the advent of evidence-based medicine and blood tests
used smell as one aspect of figuring things out
etc

by pungent - do you mean acrid?

I've had a number of smells exuding through my skin and also with sweat.
One of them was acrid - sour, pungent, sticky, oily. This was whenever my body switched to anaerobic energy production,
something off in my fatty acid metabolism.
Another one, that was trickier in that I couldn't smell it most of the time but those around me could.
Or when I would leave my room, and then come back in, it would hit me.
It started by being a night smell only,
progressed to a day smell, as my metabolism become more and more impaired.
Unpleasant - it sucked the life out of the room
There were more - these two remind me of how you described your husband's smells

There is also a smell that comes from apocrine glands: stress sweat.

It all got better, as I worked on my metabolism,
and as I reduced stresses.
Working at restoring oxidative phosphorylation and mitochondria,
shifting away from burning fatty acids as main source of energy, from catabolic states, etc
All the things in Peat's framework come to bear - thyroid included

The acrid one started making a reappearance
I upped my carbs a bit, as I was hungry for them, and it went away

I had the thought that my sweat could be analyzed, and those substances figured out and where things were going wrong
It would have satisfied my curiosity
It was not necessary to get better
- sticking to the bigger picture and underpinning principles got me there

Tracking his temperature and heart rate throughout the day can be a good place to start

Interesting. This thread is reminding me of something my husband has told me. His late mother had sever bipolar disorder and he said he knew when one of her manic episodes was coming because she would smell strongly metallic, like a penny. Wonder what caused that...

 

[mostlylurking]

Thiamine to the rescue again!

Yep. I wish I'd known about it in 2007 when my father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Looking back, I realize that my father was floxed (cipro/ciprofloxacin for food poisoning) 4 years prior to being diagnosed with Alzheimers. I'm convinced this is what happened to him.

 

[Regina]

Interesting. This thread is reminding me of something my husband has told me. His late mother had sever bipolar disorder and he said he knew when one of her manic episodes was coming because she would smell strongly metallic, like a penny. Wonder what caused that...

Wow . "like a penny." Estrogen/copper. Copper build up in the liver as in Wilson's and estrogen exciting the brain.

 

[Blossom]

...and he must be well fed to cope with taking it I believe? More milk shakes....

Yes, some people have reported low blood sugar when starting thiamine. It’s good to keep that possibility in mind and have some type of snack on hand just in case.

 

[aliml]

Serotonin Weakens Smell Perception

60 Best ways to lower Serotonin (2020 update) » TESTONATION

Serotonin has always been thought (or is still being though) of as the happy hormone and that by increasing it, it has an anti-depressant effect, right? What if I told you that’s not true at all. SSRI drugs are the most commonly prescribed drug for depression, anxiety and other mental disorders...

men-elite.com

 

[Blossom]

Yep. I wish I'd known about it in 2007 when my father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. Looking back, I realize that my father was floxed (cipro/ciprofloxacin for food poisoning) 4 years prior to being diagnosed with Alzheimers. I'm convinced this is what happened to him.

Good grief, I’m so sorry to hear that happened to your father.
As a floxie myself I’ve often wondered about all the people suffering needlessly. I realize these antibiotics can in some instances save peoples lives but those prescribing them really need to do a better job at looking out for potential iatrogenic harm and helping people through the massive fallout. Instead people get brushed off as too sensitive, a hypochondriac or worse (like in your father’s case) end up with a new diagnosis/disease that could have been easily and affordably addressed. Off soapbox.

 

[Hayley]

Wow . "like a penny." Estrogen/copper. Copper build up in the liver as in Wilson's and estrogen exciting the brain.

She also had breast cancer so the estrogen dominance piece makes sense.

 

[mostlylurking]

Good grief, I’m so sorry to hear that happened to your father.
As a floxie myself I’ve often wondered about all the people suffering needlessly. I realize these antibiotics can in some instances save peoples lives but those prescribing them really need to do a better job at looking out for potential iatrogenic harm and helping people through the massive fallout. Instead people get brushed off as too sensitive, a hypochondriac or worse (like in your father’s case) end up with a new diagnosis/disease that could have been easily and affordably addressed. Off soapbox.

Thank you. He started acting wonky after the floxing but then he had to have surgery on his eyelid for cancer about 6 weeks later and he went loony-tunes from the anesthesia so it was hard to pin the mental decline on the floxing. But looking back now I'm aware of how that must have been the start.

I've found more and more medical pharmaceuticals that interfere with thiamine function. It's too much, I've become cynical. I no longer believe it's all "accidental". I didn't get floxed myself; I was done in via Bactrim antibiotic which blocks thiamine and more: Bactrim: An Anti-Folate, Anti-Thiamine, Potassium Altering Drug - Hormones Matter

Have you seen this video? It's an eye opener. This guy goes through a big list of some of the pharmaceutical drugs that block thiamine function:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG3m3tbEGU0


I've learned that it's really important to do an internet search for "(pharmaceutical drug name here) and thiamine" before I swallow any prescription.

 

[Blossom]

@mostlylurking, I just recently heard of him but haven’t seen that video. Thanks for the video and tip. I definitely agree that there are multiple issues impacting thiamine status.

 

[I'm.No.One]

I'm aware that serotonin is and issue but not particularly for body odour. Thanks for the thought.

What did you do to lower your serotonin please?

I'm likely to email Ray about this at some point.

I use 3 aspirin daily (325mg & take vit K with it) & cypro to lower my serotonin.

Editing to add: High serotonin is such a cause of stink (like pungent rotten stress sweat that stains clothes) that it's a common listed side effect of SSRIs.

 

[I'm.No.One]

...and he must be well fed to cope with taking it I believe? More milk shakes....

Go crazy slow. A lot of people (including myself) get worse in every way when it's taken.

Might look at adding natural sources food wise into the shakes.

 

[BibleBeliever]

This is a good thread. I tend to be a stinkasaurus myself. Perhaps lowering serotonin more will be helpful.

 

[Kaur Singh]

I wonder if treating the hypothyroidism would reduce the need for life-long high B1 doses...

(Constantini's patients, etc)

 

[mostlylurking]

I wonder if treating the hypothyroidism would reduce the need for life-long high B1 doses...

(Constantini's patients, etc)

I learned that (at least for me) treating hypothyroidism and addressing the need for high dose thiamine is a balancing act. Too much T3 reduces thiamine (it gets used up, causing a deficiency). Blocked thiamine function also blocked my use of T3 so it rose to dangerous levels in my blood while I experienced severe hypothyroid symptoms. I recovered by taking high dose thiamine hcl (2 grams/day) AND cutting my dose of prescription natural desiccated thyroid down from 180mg/day to 135mg/day. I get blood tests every 6 months to monitor how I'm doing with my endocrinologist.

 

[haidut]

My husband has Lewy Body Demntia and Alzheimer's.

Even before diagnosis he had that smell which is unpleasant and pungent. He doesn't know he has it (poor sense of smell) and I haven't told him.

On discussion threads (not here) I have seen people recommending shaving cream and deodorant soaps, all with non-Peaty ingredients. Maybe I shouldn't be worrying about that at this stage?

On same discussion threads people say it comes from the upper back area.

I personally extremely rarely have a sense of smell, BUT oddly can be 'aware' of said smell occasionally on him; I'm guessing when it's particularly strong. Thus it's difficult for me to judge on a daily basis how strong this smell is. I'm mindful not to embarrass him when in company by him having this pungent scent on him, and I don't want the house to smell!

Any useful comments, experiences or ideas would be much appreciated.

PUFA peroxidation, which is a proven cause of both of those diseases, creates volatile and unpleasant-smelling compounds. In general, elevated lipolysis would worsen body odor due to many other such peroxidation products being formed, and this is one reason why a long session of endurance exercise makes people smell unpleasantly. There are other reasons too, but this is one of them.
@Rinse & rePeat

Increased Pufa Oxidation May Be Biomarker For Alzheimers

In line with the slow public admission that Alzheimer is a metabolic disease, this study found that the development of Alzheimer's can be predicted by a simple analysis of urine. The predictive biomarker in urine is called octenol (1-Octen-3-ol) and is it is formed in humans through the...

raypeatforum.com

Elevated prolactin and estrogen, which are also higher in such people, also contribute to the pungent smell. Dogs are very good at detecting that smell even when it is very faint (years before diagnosis) and this is why they now propose to use dogs for early diagnosis, and not just Parkinson's.

The science of sniffs: disease smelling dogs | Understanding Animal Research | Understanding Animal Research

www.understandinganimalresearch.org.uk

"...Besides cancer and malaria, dogs can also detect Parkinson's disease. Parkinson's sufferers smell different even years before they have the disease. Dogs could therefore be used in detecting early onset of the disease and treating patients pre-emptively, before the symptoms get irremediably too severe."