Licorice Root - A Key Supplement In Hypothyroidism?

[kineticz]

How's your gut, kineticz? It's used for gut inflammation sometimes, which is consistent with your 30m to health affects observation. Have you ever tried other commonly used gut-inflammation reducers like Quercetin and other flavonoids (despite the fact that Peat's refs say flavonoids can raise estrogen).

Do you ever have "gut-brain axis" related issues?

I take lysine and that is said to reduce serotonin in the gut, and helps my mood.

I've taken quercetin before and it made my stools really sludgy (sorry had to be honest), does this mean anything?

Well you said that licorice enhanced your mood too - I'm asking if quercetin or other supplements on the (not-so-peat) gut-repair list have. You didn't feel any difference when your stool was "sludgy"? This could be you expelling old fecal mater from the gut being less inflamed. I don't know if quercetin could otherwise change the color of the stool.

Quercetin didn't enhance my mood. It made me more focused, but more tense in the neck and shoulders.

I tried it as I read it helps fatty liver, so assumed it had cleared out some triglycerides. Didn't think of the gut connection.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

I don't think you would get the stool change you described from changes in the liver. There are other similar compounds you could try - as well as just eating more fruit. How long were you on it? The neck and shoulder tenseness doesn't make sense - make it was always there and you had better sensation with less inflammation?

 

[kineticz]

I don't think you would get the stool change you described from changes in the liver. There are other similar compounds you could try - as well as just eating more fruit. How long were you on it? The neck and shoulder tenseness doesn't make sense - make it was always there and you had better sensation with less inflammation?

Was on it for about four days before energy became strenuous. Besides the muscle tension it seemed to increase my adrenaline. Strange if you can work that one out.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

The only thing I can think of is a quercetin allergy. It is possible. I would try other flavonoids to test this theory.

 

[thyrulian]

Something also to keep in mind. This is from Lita Lee's website:

Thyroid Inhibitors and Toxin/Anti-thyroid Foods (cause inability to convert T4, the inactive thyroid hormone into T3, the active thyroid hormone or inadequate production of thyroid hormone)

Estrogens

* Human estrogens (estrone, estradiol and estriol) sometimes called bio-identical; birth control pills

* Synthetic estrogens (premarin).

* Herbal estrogens (black cohosh (Remifemin), sage, pennyroyal, red clover, licorice root, etc.)

* Estrogenic fruits (grapefruit, cranberry)

* Many drugs including estrogens are in purified tap water because there is no way to remove them.

This.

Licorice root gave me a great mood boost - functional estrogen antagonism from phytoestrogens I suppose, reducing CREB phosphorylation & dynorphin expression, giving dopamine some limelight, temporarily - then, huge stress increase with anhedonia followed by a drastic euphoric upswing with coffee (absent sugar & hunger) for months & months. And so here I am. :)

Basically, I feel it dropped me in a place where the stress hormone invitation was so compelling, it seemed the only option.

 

[barbwirehouse]

* Human estrogens (estrone, estradiol and estriol) sometimes called bio-identical; birth control pills

* Synthetic estrogens (premarin).

* Herbal estrogens (black cohosh (Remifemin), sage, pennyroyal, red clover, licorice root, etc.)

* Estrogenic fruits (grapefruit, cranberry)

* Many drugs including estrogens are in purified tap water because there is no way to remove them.

Cranberries and sage, really?

 

[tara]

I think penny royal is a known abortifacient.

 

[Bodhi]

So if u suffer from low Cortisol and Low Pregnenelone, Aldesterone and Hypothyroidism....

According to most it is matter of raising cortisol with adrenal supplements, Liquorice, and Pregnenelone supplementation to help thyroid function...

For Peatarians is a question of diet and Thyroid supplementation?

Thanks for clearing up because i'm getting more and more confused...

Bodhi

 

[kineticz]

So if u suffer from low Cortisol and Low Pregnenelone, Aldesterone and Hypothyroidism....

According to most it is matter of raising cortisol with adrenal supplements, Liquorice, and Pregnenelone supplementation to help thyroid function...

For Peatarians is a question of diet and Thyroid supplementation?

Thanks for clearing up because i'm getting more and more confused...

Bodhi

If you suffer from low cortisol and seem to get temporary benefits from pregnenolone, licorice seems very effective. If licorice makes you feel worse, pregnenolone probably will too, because your thyroid/metabolic rate is not high enough and it's best to start with thyroid hormone.

Peatarians believe that you should maximise mitochondrial respiration for more efficient flow of cholesterol to pregnenolone to steroid hormones, using T3 when appropriate.

 

[Bodhi]

Kineticz,

Does this mean that if i still not feel much better with T3 ( and have correct pulse and body temp) i can try to add Pregnenelone and Liquorice to see if i feel better...

I other words can i turn around the protocol u just mentioned?

 

[haidut]

Something also to keep in mind. This is from Lita Lee's website:

Thyroid Inhibitors and Toxin/Anti-thyroid Foods (cause inability to convert T4, the inactive thyroid hormone into T3, the active thyroid hormone or inadequate production of thyroid hormone)

Estrogens

* Human estrogens (estrone, estradiol and estriol) sometimes called bio-identical; birth control pills

* Synthetic estrogens (premarin).

* Herbal estrogens (black cohosh (Remifemin), sage, pennyroyal, red clover, licorice root, etc.)

* Estrogenic fruits (grapefruit, cranberry)

* Many drugs including estrogens are in purified tap water because there is no way to remove them.

I'd second that. Licorice is one of the most potent natural estrogens you can find in nature. It is at least 10x more estrogenic that resveratrol, 15x times more estrogenic than hops, and most studies state it is more estrogenic even than estradiol itself. Just do a search on PubMed for "licorice estradiol". Not saying it does not work for some people, just saying the popular opinion seems to be that it is one of the most potent estrogens around.

 

[mujuro]

That's a little unsettling. I took licorice root regularly, before meals for about 4 weeks back in July-August to heal a gastric ulcer (stupid accident). Healed great, I can't say that I felt any estrogenic effects from the licorice. What worries me is that it may have left me with residual effects that I'm still feeling now, because I am in a worse place than I was back then.

 

[yoshiesque]

Hey tara, you might wanna look at Chris Kresser's stuff on UTI. I dont know what he recommends because I have not had one before, but he is generally pretty good and peat friendly. His info on gut issues has helped me ALOT.

Here is a link: http://chriskresser.com/treat-and-preve ... hout-drugs

 

[moss]

That's a little unsettling. I took licorice root regularly, before meals for about 4 weeks back in July-August to heal a gastric ulcer (stupid accident). Healed great, I can't say that I felt any estrogenic effects from the licorice. What worries me is that it may have left me with residual effects that I'm still feeling now, because I am in a worse place than I was back then.

Hi Mujuro
Liquorice is a phytoestrogen and often prescribed for gastric uses. Given you were taking it short-term it should be fine but long-term use is more of a concern being oestrogenic and because of potential intra-cellular/fluid retention effects and best avoided like all the phytoestrogens.

 

[SQu]

I drank it as a tea with green tea and ginger, all oestrogenic it seems - for years. I enjoyed it, not sure it did much either way, but it did stain teeth black so thought I'd mention that.

 

[kineticz]

Kineticz,

Does this mean that if i still not feel much better with T3 ( and have correct pulse and body temp) i can try to add Pregnenelone and Liquorice to see if i feel better...

I other words can i turn around the protocol u just mentioned?

Yep. If T3 doesn't improve you, you need to work backwards. But don't just take loads of preg oral. Transdermal would be a good start if you want to dive straight in. It's the most direct and risk free form.

Reduce serotonin, reduce adrenaline, allowing better mitochondrial access to convert pregnenolone, and licorice is said to increase cortisol half-life giving deficient pregnenolone some respite.

 

[kineticz]

Something also to keep in mind. This is from Lita Lee's website:

Thyroid Inhibitors and Toxin/Anti-thyroid Foods (cause inability to convert T4, the inactive thyroid hormone into T3, the active thyroid hormone or inadequate production of thyroid hormone)

Estrogens

* Human estrogens (estrone, estradiol and estriol) sometimes called bio-identical; birth control pills

* Synthetic estrogens (premarin).

* Herbal estrogens (black cohosh (Remifemin), sage, pennyroyal, red clover, licorice root, etc.)

* Estrogenic fruits (grapefruit, cranberry)

* Many drugs including estrogens are in purified tap water because there is no way to remove them.

I'd second that. Licorice is one of the most potent natural estrogens you can find in nature. It is at least 10x more estrogenic that resveratrol, 15x times more estrogenic than hops, and most studies state it is more estrogenic even than estradiol itself. Just do a search on PubMed for "licorice estradiol". Not saying it does not work for some people, just saying the popular opinion seems to be that it is one of the most potent estrogens around.

Confirms then that my reading of 0 for E2 Estradiol is contributing to my low mood, creeky joints, dry skin, low libido and suffering the last year or so.

 

[Jellyfish]

Too much licorice can cause hypokalemia.

 

[narouz]

Something also to keep in mind. This is from Lita Lee's website:

Thyroid Inhibitors and Toxin/Anti-thyroid Foods (cause inability to convert T4, the inactive thyroid hormone into T3, the active thyroid hormone or inadequate production of thyroid hormone)

Estrogens

* Human estrogens (estrone, estradiol and estriol) sometimes called bio-identical; birth control pills

* Synthetic estrogens (premarin).

* Herbal estrogens (black cohosh (Remifemin), sage, pennyroyal, red clover, licorice root, etc.)

* Estrogenic fruits (grapefruit, cranberry)

* Many drugs including estrogens are in purified tap water because there is no way to remove them.

I'd second that. Licorice is one of the most potent natural estrogens you can find in nature. It is at least 10x more estrogenic that resveratrol, 15x times more estrogenic than hops, and most studies state it is more estrogenic even than estradiol itself. Just do a search on PubMed for "licorice estradiol". Not saying it does not work for some people, just saying the popular opinion seems to be that it is one of the most potent estrogens around.

Confirms then that my reading of 0 for E2 Estradiol is contributing to my low mood, creeky joints, dry skin, low libido and suffering the last year or so.

Peat has said that some people with high estrogen
experience intense sexual appetite.
kin, I believe in another thread you said
boosting your estrogen a bit also boosted your sexual desire...?

The cortisol angles you discuss...
I can surely entertain notions about individual context,
but I don't think I've ever heard Peat talk about
a situation in which it is desirable to raise cortisol.
I'm not saying that that invalidates your theory, just noting the Peat angle.
I'm sure cortisol (and estrogen, prolactin, etc) do have their useful function, as you say.
Peat generally kinda poopoo's notions of "adrenal fatigue"
and doesn't seem ever to talk about strategies to raise cortisol
or to give cortisone supplements.
Again, this is not to say that your particular context couldn't benefit from that.

Long ago, before I discovered Peat,
and I think under the influence of that alternative thyroid guru--
can't ever remember how to spell his name,
but something like Kharazakian or somesuch
(he has a book on hypothyroidism)--
I took a supplement derived from licorish root.
It tasted great but I can't remember an effect one way or the other.

There was this movie back in the '50's starring James Mason.
It centered around the experience of a guy who gets addicted to cortisone,
I believe.
The arc of the movie was that everything was Super Great for a while.
And then he crashed big time.
Being a Brit I figure you might be familiar with your countryman's movies. :)
I don't mention that as a cautionary tale--more a UK curiosity.

addendum:
-the doctor/author mentioned above is Datis Kharrazian
-his book is Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? when My Lab Tests Are Normal: a Revolutionary Breakthrough in Understanding Hashimoto's Disease and Hypothyroidism
-the licorice product I took is called "Deglycyrrhized Licorice Root Extract"
-the J. Mason movie is titled Bigger Than Life.

 

[sweetpeat]

This is one of the few places in my readings so far that I've seen Peat mention supplementing cortisone. It's from the article "Blocking Tissue Destruction" http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/tissue-destruction.shtml

While hypothyroidism makes the body require more cortisone to sustain blood sugar and energy production, it also limits the ability to produce cortisone, so in some cases stress produces symptoms resulting from a deficiency of cortisone, including various forms of arthritis and more generalized types of chronic inflammation.


Often, a small physiological dose of natural hydrocortisone can help the patient meet the stress, without causing harmful side-effects. While treating the symptoms with cortisone for a short time, it is important to try to learn the basic cause of the problem, by checking for hypothyroidism, vitamin A deficiency, protein deficiency, a lack of sunlight, etc. (I suspect that light on the skin directly increases the skin's production of steroids, without depending on other organs. Different steroids probably involve different frequencies of light, but orange and red light seem to be important frequencies.) Using cortisone in this way, physiologically rather than pharmacologically, it is not likely to cause the serious problems mentioned above.


Stress-induced cortisone deficiency is thought to be a factor in a great variety of unpleasant conditions, from allergies to ulcerative colitis, and in many forms of arthritis. The stress which can cause a cortisone deficiency is even more likely to disturb formation of progesterone and thyroid hormone, so the fact that cortisone can relieve symptoms does not mean that it has corrected the problem.