Losing Weight Sensibly Vs. Eating Slight Surplus

[Diokine]

I first found Dr. Peat's work about 5 years ago, but only really started trying to figure things out about a year ago. I did a 7 day course of 2x500mg of Keflex about a month ago, which was very effective. Significant reduction in body odor and belly fat. I also occasionally use oregano oil, and other herbs. Mushroom broth I think has helped tremendously in healing my gut, though I feel like I'm now developing a slight allergy either to the mushroom itself or something involved in the growing.

 

[whodathunkit]

I first found Dr. Peat's work about 5 years ago, but only really started trying to figure things out about a year ago. I did a 7 day course of 2x500mg of Keflex about a month ago, which was very effective. Significant reduction in body odor and belly fat. I also occasionally use oregano oil, and other herbs. Mushroom broth I think has helped tremendously in healing my gut, though I feel like I'm now developing a slight allergy either to the mushroom itself or something involved in the growing.

Thanks, Diokine! Very helpful.

FWIW, experimentation with mushrooms as a prebiotic lets me know they have powerful effects on the immune system. Lots of people with immune dysfunction have a hard time tolerating any mushroom products. So long-term daily use may not be productive. This is the case with me, although sporadic use doesn't cause me problems.

 

[scarlettsmum]

The tracking is onerous. In particular, at first and when you are homecooking...but you weigh everything out once and it will stay in your recent history. Yes, it is likely that it is not going to be 100% accurate but I don't think you need 100% accuracy to increase your consciousness around the amounts you are consuming-- especially in the instance that you are trying to reduce the amount of calories. The best thing about chronometer is it isnt just about the calories but you can also manage your averages over time and ensure you are getting the right micronutrients as well.

At the moment I started tracking everything I eat on a paper and just monitoring how hungry I am before eating and how full after. I find it far less tedious and actually it makes me more aware of my bodily sensations then tracking calories. I might start putting some data in chronometer again just to keep track of my protein consumption though, as I am trying to increase it.

I think a slight caloric deficiet would be the best way to go about it. I wouldn't be afraid to drop calories below maintence.
Even in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment, where participants caloric intake was drastically reduced for 24 weeks, the average metabolic rate slowdown was ~14%
I would imagine that any metabolic down-regulation you experience (if any) would be recovered fairly quickly upon eating at maintainence again.

thanks, that's encouraging. I found Peat through Matt Stone about 5 years ago and he was very much into overeating so I think it made me fearful limit my food intake. Not that I plan to drastically cut my portions but I think I finally need to do something as I have gained 7 kg since 2015 on top of some post pregnancy weight and although surprisingly I look very shapely and not overweight, even though I would be classified as overweight according to BMI, I just don't feel comfortable at this weight. Also as mentioned in my original comment I don't want the excess oestrogen.

Yep, this is pretty dead on. You can also use the Metabolism formulas (Like Mifflin St. Joer or Katch-McKardle) to estimate BMR, and the activity multiplier as a starting point as well. Activity trackers are another option, most give a daily estimated calorie burn.

thanks, I will do.

 

[scarlettsmum]

A 500 calorie deficit might be too much for you, I agree! That number was just an example of what I do.

As a note, if I am putting effort into losing fat and I am not seeing much progress then I lose interest. Therefore I like to see that 1-2 pounds per week because it motivates me, even if losing it a little slower is healthier. 2 pounds is a lot of fat lost in 1 week in my opinion. That's like a 7000 calorie deficit per week. I don't think people should expect more than this. 0.5 pounds would be excellent progress for you I think.

As far as eating out goes, I know how you feel about not being able to get an accurate cronometer input for those types of meals. I say just do your best and you'll probably be close. Mostly I avoid eating stuff that I can't easily count because I am OCD. My friend, the one I mentioned in the previous post, if he is going to eat a meal at a relatives house or something will keep his fat to almost zero and his calories low for the day leading up to the meal as a sort of counter balance and then just not count the meal.

Everyone has different ways of doing things. You obviously need to personalize your strategy. I posted originally not because I wanted to tell you what to do, but just to give you an example of a program that did actually work (for at least 1 person).

If you really seriously want to lose weight though, you have to put a bit of effort into it (at least most people do). Most people keep trying the same thing over and over and never get anywhere. These are the people that always seem to be "dieting". If it's not working, tweak something and try again. A person might just need something like a bit more muscle before trying. Gaining some muscle then trying to lose fat could actually be better than being atrophied and trying to lose fat.

That's sounds sensible, I would like to ideally lose about 0.5 - 1 pound a week. As I said in one of the other posts above I am tracking my food intake and how hungry I am before and how full after eating and will continue to do so. I am still not convinced by cronometer, but I may give it another shot anyway. Thanks for all the tips. I think my mistake was that I knowingly overate, and my weight slowly crept up, so i need to stop doing that. According to BMI I am now overweight even though I look surprisingly shapely, which to me suggests that some of the weight gain is probably muscle. I now need to stop the ongoing weight gain.

 

[scarlettsmum]

Eat according to your appetite and cravings. Dr. Peat has said before that a lot of people eat when they aren't hungry - this doesn't necessarily serve you. I essentially live off of clean 2% milk, mushroom and parsley broth, and oranges with occasional steak and hamburgers and shrimps, cheese, etc. I'm not at all saying these things will work for you - but after lots of experimentation and observation I've found this is what works with me. My appetite has become very honed and I can tell what kind of foods I need, and I am simply not interested in things that don't appeal to my sense of taste or smell. I used to be hungry all the time, and I can now go a very long time without eating which I think is a direct consequence of lowering gut inflammation and allowing my liver to work better.

The past two months I have lost close to 10lbs without even trying, while gaining significant amounts of muscle. I do pretty serious physical training nearly every day and it's been a big factor as well.

I think my diet needs to be more varied than that. I wish I was one of those people who eats to live. I'm afraid I am more the type who lives to eat. I would like to be happy to live with a limited diet but i get cravings even if my diet was made up of nutrient dense foods only. However, I am taking megasporebiotics at the moment and I should really write a separate post about them because they work wonders for my colon health and gut inflammation.

 

[scarlettsmum]

@scarlettsmum: don't forget that as your health improves, things that used to give you bad sides can start working for you. I call it the "Circle Back Around" strategy.

The better your metabolism runs, the more stimulation to it you can handle.

Thyroid, for instance. You might consider experimenting with gently taking some T3 every so often to see if it's still giving you the elevated heart rate or bad sides.

If you take a couple drops every couple/few hours that's not enough to cause you an extreme reaction but probably enough to test tolerance.

As a daily strategy, I have found this "very low dose" approach to be extremely helpful in helping me raise my metabolism.

But the first time I tried thyroid I didn't like it. When I came back to it later I had to tweak my strategy to get the benefits from it.

I personally can't do more than a couple drops of thyroid every couple hours. By thyroid I mean T3, not whole thyroid. Whole thyroid is not my friend for any protracted period of time, probably because T4 converts to T3 in the liver and if your liver isn't functioning up to snuff you might not get enough of the crucial T3 even if you're getting enough T4 (either by endogenous production or exogenous supplementation). Too much T4 without the conversion to T3 gives me problems, and I always have problems with T4 because my liver still isn't quite right. And even with isolated T3, if I do more than a couple drops every couple hours, I can get a bit strung out.

I've had this successful "Circle Back Around" type of experience with many things as my health and metabolism have improved. Stuff I couldn't take that I re-tried later with success. Successes include progesterone, thyroid, and B6.

Also, if you're drinking coffee or taking any other kind of methyl donor (like methylene blue or whatever), those raise metabolism and can intensify the effects of thyroid supplementation.

Just sayin'. Something to consider if you haven't tried it already. Also consider the distinction between T4 and T3 if you haven't already.​

"the better metabolism runs, the more stimulation you can handle." Thanks for that quote, that makes so much sense, because I can still feel easily stimulated by lots of things, such as coffee or even cocoa sometimes. Although I have noticed improvement since taking effective probiotics and I have been drinking coffee without problem for the last week. I am hoping it is a permanent change!
Thanks for the encouragement with T3, i didn't think of trying T3 alone as I was terribly afraid of it not being balanced by T4 but it is possible that some of us might need just T3. I have tried Tyromix, one drop, and that gave me the crazy hear rate. I must say I still don't feel confident trying. At the moment I still view it as a last resort if nothing else works. I'm just so terrified of the stuff. I am doing quite well on progesterone, although I found it had kind of a rebound effect, where it stopped the bloat before my period, but bloat has returned with vengeance in the first two weeks of cycle when I was off progesterone. But I just had a month of zero bloat and although it is too early to say I believe it was my probiotics that stopped the endotoxin being recirculated and perhaps cleared my liver enough that I have been able to drink coffee again recently. I will certainly keep monitoring it.

 

[whodathunkit]

I wish I was one of those people who eats to live. I'm afraid I am more the type who lives to eat.

I used to be that. It's changing to the point where I'm more tilted towards eating to live. Still battling sometimes, but it's getting easier as my health gets better. Don't give up! :)

I have tried Tyromix, one drop, and that gave me the crazy hear rate.

Tyromax (haidut's whole thyroid product) did me the same way. You might be pleasantly surprised at Tyronene (haidut's T3)...I know I was. I think the problem may be for some of us that our bodies produce enough T4, but because of liver issues it simply doesn't get broken down properly into T3. T3 is the missing element for so many of us.

That said, it is possible to overdo on T3. But dosing in drops is so much easier and safer than dosing by tabs.

I don't want to get you to do something you're uncomfortable with, just sayin' because I kind of used to be where you are, so's maybe you'll take another look. Through my own beneficial experiences I've become convinced of the role careful use of T3 can have in the recovery of metabolism.

Good news is it doesn't necessarily have to be a life-long daily thing. I take less now than when I started...usually just a few drops in the morning although during that time of the month I may take some at night. Hypothyroid being a factor in heavy flow. Some days I'll take every few hours but it's very, very rare that I dose it all day long. Taking more may actually be beneficial to me, but I'm erring on the side of caution. :)

Anyway, that's all. Good luck!

 

[schultz]

how are you integrating exercise into what you're doing?

Since it is getting warm out again (Winter is depressing in Canada) I am much more motivated now. I have reintroduced weight lifting. I haven't lifted weights seriously in years (6 or 7 maybe?) and I am very curious to see what my progress will be like. Back then I ate low carb and did lots of fasted running and all that crap, but also did some good things like hill sprints and weights.

I am starting off by doing Charles Staley's EDT program (escalating density training). I think this type of program dovetails nicely with the kind of principles Peat discusses. I am doing it Monday, Wednesday and Friday and I am switching between back squats + chinups on the one day and deadlifts + military press on the next day.

Another "trainer" that I used to follow is Pavel Tsatsouline. He has excellent programs that tend to focus on strength and staying "fresh" (not going to failure). I will probably follow a few of his programs later in the year (I especially liked his 5x5x5 program from "Beyond Bodybuilding" and the Smolov Jr. program from the same book.)

I am walking an average of 5 hours per week or so.

If I am successful with my return to weight lifting I may start a thread discussing just how successful (or unsuccessful) I was and what I think helped me achieve that success. That sounds egotistical or something, but it wasn't meant to be... kinda like "I'll start a thread on how awesome I am!!!". That's not what I meant at all!

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

I'll be a contrarian and advise against the "caloric deficit" strategy. The obesity epidemic is worsening mainly because of misinformation and the confusing and paradoxical nature of the concept of "healthy weight loss."

Full disclosure--I'm biased as I've been fortunate enough to be effortlessly skinny my entire life--however, there are scientifically sound reasons to eat until you're full, even if you're overweight and currently gaining even more weight. And I'd like to think I could have the courage to eat to satiety even if I was fat. The following is an oversimplification but I think it gets the main points across:

Much confusion arises from the fallacy that weight loss = necessarily healthy. Healthy people do sometimes lose weight, but sick people also lose weight. It's the correlation/causation error once again. So we have 2 categories:

(1) Healthy weight loss: Encouraged by a lower stress lifestyle that involves eating when hungry (but never to the point where your stomach hurts) and getting plenty of carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, etc. the body is regaining its ability to produce adequate levels of hormones, thus enabling a faster metabolism, which leads to a higher capacity for fat burning. Other lifestyle factors not related to nutrition probably play a major role here as well, but they all fundamentally relate to stress. Stress is the key variable.

(2) Unhealthy weight loss: Encouraged by a high stress lifestyle of limiting one's calories and continually pushing away hunger signals, the body is forced by starvation to use fat and muscle as fuel despite not being phsyiologically equipped to do so from a hormonal (or some other) standpoint. The body tries to offset the damaging effects of this by slowing metabolism, but if the person reacts by eating even less, and the problem is exacerbated. Lots of stress here.

In (1), short run weight gain eventually leads to long term permanent weight loss and thriving metabolism/hormones. In (2), short term forced weight loss leads to long term weight gain or weight loss accompanied by long term damaged metabolism/unbalanced hormones/myriad other health complications.

On a final note, there's a widespread belief that weight loss "is hard and requires tremendous effort" or something. It's a common fallacy; it's analogous to the belief that "career success is hard." It can be hard, but note the numerous people who have achieved remarkable career success (millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars in net earnings) and attribute it to "doing what they love, rather than doing what people told them to do." That doesn't sound hard. Why should weight loss be any different?

 

[milk_lover]

I used to be that. It's changing to the point where I'm more tilted towards eating to live. Still battling sometimes, but it's getting easier as my health gets better. Don't give up! :)


Tyromax (haidut's whole thyroid product) did me the same way. You might be pleasantly surprised at Tyronene (haidut's T3)...I know I was. I think the problem may be for some of us that our bodies produce enough T4, but because of liver issues it simply doesn't get broken down properly into T3. T3 is the missing element for so many of us.

That said, it is possible to overdo on T3. But dosing in drops is so much easier and safer than dosing by tabs.

I don't want to get you to do something you're uncomfortable with, just sayin' because I kind of used to be where you are, so's maybe you'll take another look. Through my own beneficial experiences I've become convinced of the role careful use of T3 can have in the recovery of metabolism.

Good news is it doesn't necessarily have to be a life-long daily thing. I take less now than when I started...usually just a few drops in the morning although during that time of the month I may take some at night. Hypothyroid being a factor in heavy flow. Some days I'll take every few hours but it's very, very rare that I dose it all day long. Taking more may actually be beneficial to me, but I'm erring on the side of caution. :)

Anyway, that's all. Good luck!

This is very interesting about T3! I want to experiment with it again sometimes because it always keeps me awake especially at night. Can you tell us how much you take and what route?

 

[Constatine]

Can you give us a list of the foods you eat and, if you take supplements, what you take? I advise you maintain a slight calorie surplus and focus on increasing your metabolism and hormonal profile. Shifting to a catabolic state will just create problems further down the road.

 

[scarlettsmum]

I'll be a contrarian and advise against the "caloric deficit" strategy. The obesity epidemic is worsening mainly because of misinformation and the confusing and paradoxical nature of the concept of "healthy weight loss."

Full disclosure--I'm biased as I've been fortunate enough to be effortlessly skinny my entire life--however, there are scientifically sound reasons to eat until you're full, even if you're overweight and currently gaining even more weight. And I'd like to think I could have the courage to eat to satiety even if I was fat. The following is an oversimplification but I think it gets the main points across:

Much confusion arises from the fallacy that weight loss = necessarily healthy. Healthy people do sometimes lose weight, but sick people also lose weight. It's the correlation/causation error once again. So we have 2 categories:

(1) Healthy weight loss: Encouraged by a lower stress lifestyle that involves eating when hungry (but never to the point where your stomach hurts) and getting plenty of carbohydrates, vitamins, minerals, etc. the body is regaining its ability to produce adequate levels of hormones, thus enabling a faster metabolism, which leads to a higher capacity for fat burning. Other lifestyle factors not related to nutrition probably play a major role here as well, but they all fundamentally relate to stress. Stress is the key variable.

(2) Unhealthy weight loss: Encouraged by a high stress lifestyle of limiting one's calories and continually pushing away hunger signals, the body is forced by starvation to use fat and muscle as fuel despite not being phsyiologically equipped to do so from a hormonal (or some other) standpoint. The body tries to offset the damaging effects of this by slowing metabolism, but if the person reacts by eating even less, and the problem is exacerbated. Lots of stress here.

In (1), short run weight gain eventually leads to long term permanent weight loss and thriving metabolism/hormones. In (2), short term forced weight loss leads to long term weight gain or weight loss accompanied by long term damaged metabolism/unbalanced hormones/myriad other health complications.

On a final note, there's a widespread belief that weight loss "is hard and requires tremendous effort" or something. It's a common fallacy; it's analogous to the belief that "career success is hard." It can be hard, but note the numerous people who have achieved remarkable career success (millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars in net earnings) and attribute it to "doing what they love, rather than doing what people told them to do." That doesn't sound hard. Why should weight loss be any different?

I totally agree with you on the stress free or stressful weight loss. However, I have been slowly gaining weight over several years now I am starting to question if the extra weight and the oestrogen the fat cells produce are a worthy trade of of overeating whilst waiting for the all elusive rise in my basal temperature. I so wish it was easy and I believe I'm taking the easiest option out there. The program is based on noting down in journal what I'm eating and being aware of hunger before eating and satiety after. It is about always eating enough not less and not more. So I think it's very sensible. The author maintains that weight gain doesn't come from the occasional overeating but everyday mouthful of this, bite of that, justifying eating healthy foods such as fruit when not hungry, because it's healthy instead of waiting for a hunger signal. So I don't plan to starve myself but rather stopping overeating and monitoring my hunger and satiety signals.:)

 

[scarlettsmum]

Can you give us a list of the foods you eat and, if you take supplements, what you take? I advise you maintain a slight calorie surplus and focus on increasing your metabolism and hormonal profile. Shifting to a catabolic state will just create problems further down the road.

Yesterday:

Breakfast:
Freshly squeezed OJ with 1 slice of homemade sourdough bread, butter and homemade orange marmalade, hot cocoa
Snack:
Glass of low fat milk, handful of grapes
Lunch:
2 Scrambled eggs with cheddar and a slice of sourdough bread
Snack: 2 pieces of milk chocolate, glass of lf milk
Dinner:
Chicken livers with rice and veggies
Snack:
Glass of lf milk

For supplements I take and am doing really well on megasporebiotics which has the RP approved bacillus lichenformis. This I take every day.
As needed, maybe once weekly, aspirin, no longer need charcoal since taking probiotics, occassional vitamin D and K, low dose zinc sparingly if no seafood in a particular week, and that's pretty much it.

 

[whodathunkit]

This is very interesting about T3! I want to experiment with it again sometimes because it always keeps me awake especially at night. Can you tell us how much you take and what route?

3 drops in the morning, then 2 drops every 2-3 hours. No more than that, and no huge doses at one time, ever.

If I start to get wired out I slow the frequency of doses. For example, I'll do a couple drops every four hours or whatever.

Some days I only do a few drops in the morning. Some days I only dose twice. Some days I forget. LOL

Lately I've been experimenting with more frequent doses, but it's too soon to tell if it's having any effect yet. Mood is good, no sleep disturbances that can be attributed to thyroid (got other things going on that have historically accounted for minor sleep disturbances, plus have been trying other things).

One thing I've noticed is that T3 doesn't wire me out as long as I don't take too much, even if I take it in the evening. May be different for you, but for me the wired effect seems to be cumulative and not necessarily related to the timing of the dose. Unlike coffee/caffeine and some other methyl donor type metabolism boosters. I actually sometimes take a couple drops of T3 right before bed because my understanding is that adequate T3 is needed for quality sleep. It's fine as long as I haven't taken too much throughout the day, or as long as I don't take a big dose at that time.

From my thyroid lab history and what I've learned about thyroid since being here, I think a big problem with me is conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver. For years my thyroid panels were pretty bad...TSH high, all numbers low, etc. But after starting to seriously tackle my health about 7 years ago, my thyroid labs have come back almost ideal for TSH, T4, etc., but with lower T3 numbers. Not bottomed out, but in the low end of the range. "Meh" sort of results, if that makes sense. I never really understood the ramifications of those kinds of numbers until I started hanging around here.

 

[milk_lover]

3 drops in the morning, then 2 drops every 2-3 hours. No more than that, and no huge doses at one time, ever.

If I start to get wired out I slow the frequency of doses. For example, I'll do a couple drops every four hours or whatever.

Some days I only do a few drops in the morning. Some days I only dose twice. Some days I forget. LOL

Lately I've been experimenting with more frequent doses, but it's too soon to tell if it's having any effect yet. Mood is good, no sleep disturbances that can be attributed to thyroid (got other things going on that have historically accounted for minor sleep disturbances, plus have been trying other things).

One thing I've noticed is that T3 doesn't wire me out as long as I don't take too much, even if I take it in the evening. May be different for you, but for me the wired effect seems to be cumulative and not necessarily related to the timing of the dose. Unlike coffee/caffeine and some other methyl donor type metabolism boosters. I actually sometimes take a couple drops of T3 right before bed because my understanding is that adequate T3 is needed for quality sleep. It's fine as long as I haven't taken too much throughout the day, or as long as I don't take a big dose at that time.

From my thyroid lab history and what I've learned about thyroid since being here, I think a big problem with me is conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver. For years my thyroid panels were pretty bad...TSH high, all numbers low, etc. But after starting to seriously tackle my health about 7 years ago, my thyroid labs have come back almost ideal for TSH, T4, etc., but with lower T3 numbers. Not bottomed out, but in the low end of the range. "Meh" sort of results, if that makes sense. I never really understood the ramifications of those kinds of numbers until I started hanging around here.

Thanks for the response! Really appreciate it.
When you take it in the morning, do you take it with breakfast and orally? I read somewhere in the forum that only very little is good on skin because it either deactivates or transforms to the reversed T3 which is what we don't want. I think Peat said something like that.

 

[whodathunkit]

Thanks for the response! Really appreciate it.
When you take it in the morning, do you take it with breakfast and orally? I read somewhere in the forum that only very little is good on skin because it either deactivates or transforms to the reversed T3 which is what we don't want. I think Peat said something like that.

Yeah, sorry, I put it in some juice or coffee, regardless of when I take it. Often put the drops in a spoonful of something and then take it like cough syrup. Wash it down quick.

Sometimes put it on my palm, immediately lick it off, and then quickly wash it down with something.

I didn't know that about RT3 but knew that orally was supposed to be the best way. I don't do topical at all.

 

[milk_lover]

• Yeah, sorry, I put it in some juice or coffee, regardless of when I take it. Often put the drops in a spoonful of something and then take it like cough syrup. Wash it down quick.
  
  Sometimes put it on my palm, immediately lick it off, and then quickly wash it down with something.
  
  I didn't know that about RT3 but knew that orally was supposed to be the best way. I don't do topical at all.

  
  Thanks :)

 

[whodathunkit]

And also the tracking apps are always set up for American food database, so no good if you live in Europe.

Not really. A potato is a potato and a calorie is a calorie (kilocalorie) regardless of whether you're cooking your potato in Europe or America.

Unless you weigh your food, which is definitely annoying to do all the time, there *is* some irritating subjectivity when it comes to trying to track. Can't get around that. However, tracking can be enlightening because it can broadly highlight whether or not you may be undereating or overeating without realizing it.

For example, I ran only your bread milk, and OJ through Cronometer, and you're probably getting 1500-1600 calories just from that. That's without any added fat you might use to cook, without the marmalade, without chocolate, without the cheddar, eggs, liver, rice, veggies, without the milk + sugar + chocolate for hot cocoa, etc.

Point being, you may be overeating quite a bit. Even 200 extra calories per day will cause a fairly significant weight creep. Given your food list above, I suspect you're eating around 3000 cals per day, which is actually quite a bit for most truly adult women (that is, not late teens or early-mid 20's) who are not athletes, even with healthy metabolism.

Not a criticism in this. Just something to think about. It's happened to me in the past, both undereating and overeating. :)

As far as what to do about it...that's a difficult conundrum if this amount and quality/tastiness of food is what it takes to keep you from eating your own fingers and your children. :p I’ve definitely been there, too.

FWIW, eating bread can be a hunger trigger for me, as can eggs. Rice with butter is also an eating trigger, but it satiates so I'm not hungry two hours later, and I don't seem to eat as much of it as I do bread, so I use it as a strategic intervention. It also doesn't seem to precipitate the same amount of weight gain (probably because I eat less) as long as I keep the rice white and don't regularly eat PUFA sources like grain, eggs, or chicken. Rice with butter is my go-to indulgence if I really need to stave off a jones.

I still love eggs, they're just not a staple any more. And bread is a no-go unless I'm dining out, as is chicken. Although once in a while I will pick up a bucket of southern fried and have at. Should fry my own but it's such a PITA.

Bottom line is that PUFA foods can be a big trigger to overeating, as can "estrogenic" fruits like grapes and raisins, dates, etc. I love grapes, BTW. I can go through a whole 2lb package in a day, though. So, a trigger. Maybe not for everyone, but for some of us.

Anyway, several years ago I noticed a BIG modification in my cravings and appetite by correcting what were probably some long-standing B vitamin deficiencies, especially choline, which is something the liver desperately needs and many of us with metabolism problems may be lacking. Also I worked a lot on my gut with pre- and probiotics, which helped a little with food cravings but a lot exercise tolerance. All this supplementation caused some short-term problems like anxiety and jitteriness, also some immune problems that caused me to get sick with the flu periodically for about a year, but since I got over that period of bad side effects things are much, much improved and the effects are lasting. Metabolism/energy is much better, and I haven’t wanted the same amount or types of foods since.

That's the main point of this long post...I beneficially modified my cravings and my appetite by correcting nutritional deficiencies, particularly ones that affected my liver. Further appetite modification is ongoing, and I think T3 is helping with that. As I said, these days I'm tilting more towards being an "eating to live" girl than the "living to eat" person I was for pretty much my whole life.

Other points:

Thanks to the appetite change I was able to fast and alter my diet so that I lost a bunch of weight. At the time I didn't eat low fat, but I cut most PUFA, and of course the fasting put me in big calorie deficit. I lost nearly 90lbs at my lowest point.

However, I also re-damaged my metabolism by over-doing the fasting, and also by under-eating on feed days. Also by under-carbing. I ate some starch but not a lot, and the guidelines I was following were basically anti-sugar and anti-fructose. I ultimately developed some gastroparesis problems (which manifested with symptoms of a gallbladder or pancreatitis attack) which all seem to relate back to the liver dysfunction I've been battling for so long. It was demoralizing and very painful when I'd get an attack.

I've since come to the conclusion that this gastroparesis problem was probably due to chronic, long-standing energy deficit that affected my liver's ability to store and produce what I need to run my metabolism efficiently. Basically, I gave my liver the nutrients it needed to run itself better, and then once it started running better I didn't give it the energy it needed to continue. I corrected the nutritional deficiencies but then by undereating kicked myself deeper into the root problem of lack of energy.

It may be that when the liver can’t get enough energy to function, we get hungry to compensate.

Since going more Peaty I've put back on some of the weight I lost initially, which was disheartening at first, but am maintaining a solid 60lb weight loss. Not where I want to be but I still look pretty good, judging by feedback I get. More encouraging is that I don't have gastroparesis/gallbladder problems any more, although I'm still using some supplements to address the long-standing liver issues. I do believe I'll reach a place where I no longer have to take these supps any more.

Best news about the weight gain is I think I needed to put that weight back on to stabilize at this much lower set point. It’s lower than it has been for over a decade. So now that I've re-established a healthier set point, I'm going to try moderate calorie deficit + strategic fasting again to get to my healthy ideal weight. It’s maybe a step-down process. But all calorie deficit in moderation and all the while supporting liver health with lower fat, a good amount of carbs & sugar, and the supplements. Slow and steady.

I honestly believe that calorie deficit is the best way to lose weight. But I also believe that correcting the things that are driving us to eat, like nutritional deficiencies and poor gut health, are a key to being able to endure calorie deficit. And also not taking the calorie deficit to extremes, which is what we usually do.

There’s also the additional wrinkle of looking at the psychological ways we use food. I’ve come to realize lately more than ever that the old cliché of emotional eating is very, very true. Intellectually I knew that, but for whatever reason I was never able to internalize that fact for myself until very recently. Any time I feel insecure about anything, whether it’s finances or relationships or the potential of World War III or whatever, I want to eat. Eating through anxiety makes me feel much more secure in the moment, even though eating enough to quell chronic anxiety undermines everything I want for myself and my life in the long-term. Becoming aware of the feeling before I reach for food out of habit, and deliberately crafting an alternative strategy to deal with anxiety, is helping a lot with that.

Maybe it’s the same for you?

I dunno. It’s complex. Just maundering because it seems we’re somewhat similar and I’ve been dealing with the complexity for so long. This is a good thread. :)

 

[Braveheart]

Not really. A potato is a potato and a calorie is a calorie (kilocalorie) regardless of whether you're cooking your potato in Europe or America.

Unless you weigh your food, which is definitely annoying to do all the time, there *is* some irritating subjectivity when it comes to trying to track. Can't get around that. However, tracking can be enlightening because it can broadly highlight whether or not you may be undereating or overeating without realizing it.

For example, I ran only your bread milk, and OJ through Cronometer, and you're probably getting 1500-1600 calories just from that. That's without any added fat you might use to cook, without the marmalade, without chocolate, without the cheddar, eggs, liver, rice, veggies, without the milk + sugar + chocolate for hot cocoa, etc.

Point being, you may be overeating quite a bit. Even 200 extra calories per day will cause a fairly significant weight creep. Given your food list above, I suspect you're eating around 3000 cals per day, which is actually quite a bit for most truly adult women (that is, not late teens or early-mid 20's) who are not athletes, even with healthy metabolism.

Not a criticism in this. Just something to think about. It's happened to me in the past, both undereating and overeating. :)

As far as what to do about it...that's a difficult conundrum if this amount and quality/tastiness of food is what it takes to keep you from eating your own fingers and your children. :p I’ve definitely been there, too.

FWIW, eating bread can be a hunger trigger for me, as can eggs. Rice with butter is also an eating trigger, but it satiates so I'm not hungry two hours later, and I don't seem to eat as much of it as I do bread, so I use it as a strategic intervention. It also doesn't seem to precipitate the same amount of weight gain (probably because I eat less) as long as I keep the rice white and don't regularly eat PUFA sources like grain, eggs, or chicken. Rice with butter is my go-to indulgence if I really need to stave off a jones.

I still love eggs, they're just not a staple any more. And bread is a no-go unless I'm dining out, as is chicken. Although once in a while I will pick up a bucket of southern fried and have at. Should fry my own but it's such a PITA.

Bottom line is that PUFA foods can be a big trigger to overeating, as can "estrogenic" fruits like grapes and raisins, dates, etc. I love grapes, BTW. I can go through a whole 2lb package in a day, though. So, a trigger. Maybe not for everyone, but for some of us.

Anyway, several years ago I noticed a BIG modification in my cravings and appetite by correcting what were probably some long-standing B vitamin deficiencies, especially choline, which is something the liver desperately needs and many of us with metabolism problems may be lacking. Also I worked a lot on my gut with pre- and probiotics, which helped a little with food cravings but a lot exercise tolerance. All this supplementation caused some short-term problems like anxiety and jitteriness, also some immune problems that caused me to get sick with the flu periodically for about a year, but since I got over that period of bad side effects things are much, much improved and the effects are lasting. Metabolism/energy is much better, and I haven’t wanted the same amount or types of foods since.

That's the main point of this long post...I beneficially modified my cravings and my appetite by correcting nutritional deficiencies, particularly ones that affected my liver. Further appetite modification is ongoing, and I think T3 is helping with that. As I said, these days I'm tilting more towards being an "eating to live" girl than the "living to eat" person I was for pretty much my whole life.

Other points:

Thanks to the appetite change I was able to fast and alter my diet so that I lost a bunch of weight. At the time I didn't eat low fat, but I cut most PUFA, and of course the fasting put me in big calorie deficit. I lost nearly 90lbs at my lowest point.

However, I also re-damaged my metabolism by over-doing the fasting, and also by under-eating on feed days. Also by under-carbing. I ate some starch but not a lot, and the guidelines I was following were basically anti-sugar and anti-fructose. I ultimately developed some gastroparesis problems (which manifested with symptoms of a gallbladder or pancreatitis attack) which all seem to relate back to the liver dysfunction I've been battling for so long. It was demoralizing and very painful when I'd get an attack.

I've since come to the conclusion that this gastroparesis problem was probably due to chronic, long-standing energy deficit that affected my liver's ability to store and produce what I need to run my metabolism efficiently. Basically, I gave my liver the nutrients it needed to run itself better, and then once it started running better I didn't give it the energy it needed to continue. I corrected the nutritional deficiencies but then by undereating kicked myself deeper into the root problem of lack of energy.

It may be that when the liver can’t get enough energy to function, we get hungry to compensate.

Since going more Peaty I've put back on some of the weight I lost initially, which was disheartening at first, but am maintaining a solid 60lb weight loss. Not where I want to be but I still look pretty good, judging by feedback I get. More encouraging is that I don't have gastroparesis/gallbladder problems any more, although I'm still using some supplements to address the long-standing liver issues. I do believe I'll reach a place where I no longer have to take these supps any more.

Best news about the weight gain is I think I needed to put that weight back on to stabilize at this much lower set point. It’s lower than it has been for over a decade. So now that I've re-established a healthier set point, I'm going to try moderate calorie deficit + strategic fasting again to get to my healthy ideal weight. It’s maybe a step-down process. But all calorie deficit in moderation and all the while supporting liver health with lower fat, a good amount of carbs & sugar, and the supplements. Slow and steady.

I honestly believe that calorie deficit is the best way to lose weight. But I also believe that correcting the things that are driving us to eat, like nutritional deficiencies and poor gut health, are a key to being able to endure calorie deficit. And also not taking the calorie deficit to extremes, which is what we usually do.

There’s also the additional wrinkle of looking at the psychological ways we use food. I’ve come to realize lately more than ever that the old cliché of emotional eating is very, very true. Intellectually I knew that, but for whatever reason I was never able to internalize that fact for myself until very recently. Any time I feel insecure about anything, whether it’s finances or relationships or the potential of World War III or whatever, I want to eat. Eating through anxiety makes me feel much more secure in the moment, even though eating enough to quell chronic anxiety undermines everything I want for myself and my life in the long-term. Becoming aware of the feeling before I reach for food out of habit, and deliberately crafting an alternative strategy to deal with anxiety, is helping a lot with that.

Maybe it’s the same for you?

I dunno. It’s complex. Just maundering because it seems we’re somewhat similar and I’ve been dealing with the complexity for so long. This is a good thread. :)

Good post, as usual...and yes, it's necessary to track for a while

 

[whodathunkit]

yes, it's necessary to track for a while

Yes, this thread has inspired me to track for a while, just for kicks. I even got out my trusty food scale.